any advice on attending mediation with a narcisstic please

[greenberet]

just that really - getting anxious about the whole thing - wanted to do this to try & have some sort of relationship with DH for sake of kids but the way he is treating me lately looks increasingly unlikely and he is being generally obstructive and twisting things to make me look in the wrong. He thinks its all me and I'm back in that place of doubting myself. When I have nothing to do with him I am fine - as soon as I have to have contact with him even via email I end up feeling a mess. Just want him out of my life but with kids is this possible.

One piece of advice : don't do it

anyFucker - can you expand please

I wouldn't be comfortable attending counselling with someone narc. You're already experiencing him twisting your words etc. Counselling will give him some insights / ammunition that will come out of nowhere and be really close to the bone.

As AF says, avoid it if you can. Mediation just gives him another platform. Narcissists are extremely manipulative and it could just end up giving him another opportunity to complain about and blame everyone but himself for everything that is wrong. It is all about control. Best advice if you have to go through with it is to go prepared and try try try to maintain your composure so you don't give him anything to hang a "she can't cope" hat on. Oh, and keep reminding yourself you are dealing with a narcissist so that you aren't ambushed. He will say anything to put you on the back foot or to make himself look good or like the injured party. If you haven't got proper support you really should get some. Good luck!

Hi OP. From what I've read here and in books (recommended on the opening page of the Stately Homes thread) - attending counseling with a narc is an absolute no no - they will twist and manipulate the counsellor as much as you. Instead, perhaps attend counseling alone with a view to setting and managing boundaries between you and your (I assume) estranged DH with regards to parenting the children. Good luck.

If he is using your niceness to score points, it is a mean tactic to use the DCs to punish you for a failed relationship.

With a 'win at all costs' character, any consultation with a third party will give him a chance to shine and leave your head spinning.

You say he is already twisting things? So even if you recognise he is a narcissist please be cautious using that to describe him. He will sweet talk people into believing he is a nice guy and that you are somehow the author of your own misfortunes. So depending on whom you're talking to, stick with he likes to be in control and he has very fixed ideas about things but you concentrate aloud on what is good for the children.

Try to limit contact, when possible negotiate through a solicitor; if he sends you anything antagonising, copy it but don't respond immediately.

Vent on here or to a rl friend, otherwise your distress could be used against you in order to show that you are somehow unstable.

Unless mediation is court ordered and non-negotiable I would not be allowing such a person to undermine me and fuck my head up even further.

If it's to do with a divorce settlement, decide with your lawyer what you will and won't accept and then don't compromise. It's cheaper & often quicker to mediate than to leave it to the court - so if you want him out of your life it may be an ordeal worth enduring. However, if you find the whole prospect terrifying and/or you think he's going to be uncooperative, the court is still an option.

Who has arranged this; him?.

No to mediation and for the sake of the children you all need to stay the hell away from him!. It is not possible to have any sort of relationship with a narcissist. Narcissists also make for being a really deplorable model as a parent.

Controlling abusive men use mediation as a further tool to beat their victims with; do not do mediation with him under any circumstances.

Be very careful.
My narc father managed to get his GP to believe that we wanted to get him sectioned to get control of his vast fortune. He was absolutely skint!!
They can be plausible and not everyone recognises what is really going on

Mediation is essentially compromising in a spirit of give some/get some (I know that is oversimplified). By definition, you do not actually exist in the narcissist' s eyes (no one does) so the dynamic of compromise is impossible.
What AF and crisps said, and everyone else too.
Spare yourself.

I did four way mediation with both our lawyers present. It was one of the most horrible experiences of my life. I stood my ground, but it took me about a month afterwards for me to feel okay again. We are almost a year down the line, more four way meetings and he won't engage any more with the process.

Atilla, unfortunately, staying away is not an option when dc are involved, unless you can demonstrate a threat to their wellbeing. Emotional manipulation and abuse is very hard to demonstrate.

It's not counselling, it's mediation.

Just sit quietly, look reasonable and let him hoist himself on his own petard.

ExH couldnt resist the opportunity to rant and rave and all I did was sit there. The mediator is now firmly on my side and is the main person who the court will refer to if we end up there, which we probably will.

So it can go in your favour if they behave like dicks.

Narc parents. Don't attend mediation. They can't mediate as it is all about them. Just to illustrate the point, I found out yesterday that my parents have (when they had access to my house,) stolen my dolls house that my grandad gave me. He made it for me and my mum couldn't stand the fact that he didn't make one for her. You will get nothing in return.

Mediation is a much, much, much cheaper option than court and quicker.

Is your mediation actually MIAMS or are you volunteering?

If it's the former, look at the 'get out' clauses of MIAMS and see if you're eligible. With some types, you just cannot negotiate.

If you're volunteering, than look at it as a "structured discussion". The mediator's role is to moderate everyone's behaviour (but like with all professionals some are better than others) so that people can't interrupt, shout, use abuse etc.

If you aren't expecting to get much out of mediation or are scared of him, discuss 'shuttle mediation'.

If you feel you are getting nowhere, do not be afraid of giving up on it. If he wants contact, he still has recourse to the court, and they don't care whether or not your mediation succeeded and who is to blame for it.

Be certain about what you want to get from it.

Trust your own mind. Let him say what he likes, don't argue that. Stick to I want, I want, I want.

Take care and good luck.

thanks all for comments have taken all on board - it is MIAMS and it was me that instigated this as want things sorted - I have rl support including professional - as you sayromeyroo EA is difficult to prove - it has taken me a long time to realise what has actually been going on but now I know I am seeing repeating patterns of behaviour which I doubt he is aware of. Good to have both perspectives and that I can call a halt if feel not working.

Still would not attend this unless there is no get out clause you can use. This will in all likelihood not go at all well for you, the MIAMS person will get manipulated by him and you will leave there feeling utterly and completely wretched.

You are reasonable and wish for things re him to remain amicable; the chances of that actually happening are practically non existant.

It is also not wise to continue a relationship with this type of disordered person for the childrens sake; such people end up using the children as narcissistic supply. They make for being deplorably bad parent figures.

I think two things are important:

My solicitor said that in mediation, you can say no. You do not have to agree to anything you do not wish to. I spoke to a legal colleague and my solicitor in advance of the first meeting so I had a clear idea what was reasonable and what I was prepared to offer. He took the meeting every which way around that, including verbally abusing me with two solicitors present, but I had a piece of paper in front of me with what I was prepared to agree to written down. I conceded one thing, which - had he been reasonable from the start - would have been agreed anyway.

The second point Attila is that a court would order contact if you are not talking about physical or sexual abuse. That has been made very clear to me by every legal person I have spoken to (now four). In mediation, you at least have a chance of arguing for the boundaries you want around that. The view I have taken is that there are certain things which a court would order; but we are not in a court and therefore, the point is to work out a solution which is best fit for DC (otherwise xH can take me to court). But you are right, my xH is using DC in a very emotionally manipulative way against me, but the question is how on earth you evidence that. You can't. You can only be the best parent you can be.

I would also suggest to the OP that she now talks to Womens Aid as well before entering into this process at all.

To use mediation is to subscribe to the mistaken idea that abuse is related to "misunderstandings" or lack of communication. If discussion and compromise, the mainstay of mediation, could help in any way most domestic violence situations would be long ago resolved because victims of abuse "discuss and compromise" constantly. Mediation assumes both parties will cooperate to make agreements work; the victim has always 'cooperated' with the abuser; the abuser never cooperates.

Mediation can be and is ordered by judges/courts, as can counseling and mental health evaluations. They are tools in the abuser's arsenal to be used against the victim as often as he chooses. In order for mediation to work and to not make situations worse the parties involved must have equal power and must share some common vision of resolution. This is clearly not present when domestic violence has taken place in a relationship.

Mediation practitioners must be alert to the need to interview partners separately with specially designed questions in order to determine if abuse is or has been present. Many domestic violence professionals can train others to screen safely for domestic violence. To not do so risks unsuccessful mediations, at best, and increasing the victim's danger by colluding with the abuser, at worst.

A person who has been terrorized by an abuser is not free to participate in a mediation process with him, even if the mediator(s) assume or believe that they "understand". Being truthful about any of her needs or experiences in the abuser's presence or proximity practically ensures that she is in more danger later.

The mediator is left with a no win: either the victim's danger is increased, or she is not fully or truthfully participating, or both. The well meaning mediator may actually encourage the victim to feel safe enough to share information that could seriously compromise her safety. In any case the whole intent of mediation is lost.

To engage an abuser and a victim in a process that implies equal responsibility is damaging to both. The victim is once again made to feel responsible for the abuser's behavior, and the abuser is allowed to continue to not accept full responsibility for his behaviour choices.

Mediation assumes both parties will cooperate to make agreements work; the victim has always 'cooperated' with the abuser; the abuser never cooperates

that is true, but I have spoken to Women's Aid, and their advice was to stop contact. I have also spoken to four legal professionals, all of whom said this would not hold up in court and I would be seen as obstructive; even though I had police involvement at one point and everybody I have spoken to has used the words control and psychological abuse. All of what you say is true, but in practice, unless abuse charities and the legal profession actually speak from the same songsheet, you are actually left trying the best you can in an impossible situation before you are financially and emotionally exhausted.

I have to attend mediation with ea ex. I can only go to court if i have attended & not reached agreement.
The mediator charges£100 per hour per person.

I'm going to be in a separate room from ex - is this an option, green ??

Forgot to add - you can leave at any time. Good luck

Hi i have already had a telephone conversation with mediator so this is us together - i have also sent her copies of emails where I feel ex is being unreasonable but she is unable to comment on these - can only go on what happens with her present. As yet do not have enough financial info to be in a position to be laying down terms so think this is more about coming to some sort of short term agreement with kids. I am already learning that ex behaviour in relation to everything else except kids doesnt seem to count - I am the last person I would have expected to be in this situation but I guess you all have said that - i have thought about contacting womans aid but if they can only advise no contact im not sure that will help as you say romeyroo. I can see us ending up in court. Im sure my emotions will be all over the place & no doubt he will try & use this as a weakness but thank god I have a GP who is fully aware of what is going on

I think, for me, WA were useful for confirming it was abuse and not all in my head, but in terms of practical help, as I was out of the situation there was not a lot they could do in terms of practical help. Your branch may be able to offer more, for example, details of lawyers who work in domestic abuse cases.

Yes, I tend to agree that ime what matters is how he is with dc, and unless there is a demonstrable threat to their wellbeing, then contact would be expected. It is seen as dc right to have a relationship with both parents. So, you kind of have to take a step back from your own emotions and think in terms of DC. What contact is in their best interests? Will they cope better with more frequent shorter visits, will they manage a whole weekend etc., then your arguments around that have to be built around practical concerns and dc wellbeing. Once you have a clear contact schedule, even if only for the interim, you will be able to minimise the impact of your ex on the rest of your life.