DH ran up a balance on his work credit card

[tinyshinyanddon]

I don't even know where to start with this: I am so angry.

I look after all our finances: I took it over a few years ago after noticing that DH didn't keep on top of things like I would: he would get the occasional late fee and he signed up for free trials and didn't cancel in time etc.

DH has a work credit card: a card in his name to be used for work purchases. He files expenses to claim the money back - that is deposited in our joint account. He is responsible for paying the balance off the credit card each month. He works for a large, well recognized company. I don't have access to statements - it's very much "his thing for work".

I had assumed that he was keeping on top of it but yesterday a letter came in from that bank which I opened. The account was past due and there would be a late fee. That's when I noticed that he is carrying a balance of $1000 currently. I asked him for all the statements and claims and I've been going through everything.

Over the last year he's paid over $250 in late fees/interest. The highest balance was $1500, now it's $1000. He says he was "hoping it would just go away". He says he has about $200 still to claim back but that still leaves us needing $800.

Money has been really tight for us these last few years. I shop for deals and use coupons all the time. I make things to try and save money. I sell things online (on gumtree/craigslist) that we no longer use: mainly baby stuff. I run a tight ship and DHs behavior is just such a slap in the face. I have lost all trust in him and I seriously question his judgement. I don't know what to do - how can I stop this happening again?

I have asked to see ALL statements when they come in but I am still so worried about his behavior. How could he think it was OK to do that while I groveled around saving here and there trying to make a difference. I have considered cutting up the card but that could get him into trouble with his boss. Also thought about writing to his boss explaining that this method of making purchases for the company is not working and there must be a better way where we don't have to be out of pocket and then wait for the expense claim to come in. Any thoughts?

How upsetting for you, I'm so sorry.

I don't quite understand the work credit card situation though. I have a work credit card that has been issued to me by my company. The statements go to work and it is paid off by my company directly. I have to supply the receipts obviously, and i would be in SERIOUS trouble if I couldn't account for $800 spending, and they would know about it because they get the statements

But that doesn't seem to be the case here? He is using what is effectively a personal credit card solely for work-related transactions and is reimbursed afterwards?

I don't think you personally can approach his company - it has to come from him if a different arrangement is needed. I would suggest that the arrangement my company has would be better as he would be held much more accountable for his work-related spending and you wouldn't have to wait for reimbursement, but if the company doesn't have that facility then it's not an option

And of course it wouldn't solve the main problem, which is that you can't trust him to be sensible with money, and you can't trust him to be honest about it either

My husband has a work credit cars. They company pays the card off and he just submits the receipts every month.

I don't think you should be approaching the boss that is his job. What was the 800 pounds left owing spent on? Has he been using it for his own personal use? In which case he might be able to come to an arrangement with the company to pay them back directly in monthly instalments.

I'd second writing to his boss if your husband was five years old, otherwise not.

What is your husband's strategy for getting hold of a thousand dollars if you don't have that in savings or more economies can't be made to the budget?

If I was in your position I'd have lost trust in him and would also be questioning his judgment.

To be honest, although it's worrying to be saddled with such a blithering nincompoop, I'd leave him to it. It's his debt, he can figure it out.

You have every right to be angry btw. You are supposed to be a partnership in this, and he is behaving like he is the naughty child having to hide things to avoid getting a telling off. And putting your finances in jeopardy in the process

Your question "how can I stop this happening again" is a killer too. this a problem he has caused, and you are the one working to resolve it and find a strategy to stop him behaving like this in the future. Has he made any suggestions of how to sort this out? Things of his own he can sell and cut back on? Strategies for changing his behaviour in future? Don't take on the full burden or the sacrifice yourself.

Are you his mum? Why on earth should you talk to his boss?

I don't understand the situation, my work credit card is paid for by my work, I just need to supply the receipts so that the expenses get coded properly and to prove they are legitimate.

Maybe it's time to cut him off - he created the problem, he needs to fix it. It seems like you stepping in to sort out the finances is short-term fire-fighting. So he can earn more money or sell his own stuff, it's his problem. He can deal with the consequences.

As an aside , I expect you feel very frustrated and as though you're the only adult. These actions seem like those of an immature teenager, and for him to repeatedly get in a mess financially and be dishonest about it must be exasperating.

I'm another who doesn't understand the situation. Are you sure he has permission for this arrangement? Have you spelt out how you feel in the sixth paragraph? What does he say?

The company used to have a system like you both describe but they stopped it because people were buying stuff for themselves and then getting reimbursed by the company. The company (by nature of it's business) is worldwide. The boss of my DH (and others at his grade) rarely visits him so there is the potential for people to buy stuff and then claim for it without using it for work - does that make sense? I believe people were buying tools for their personal use and claiming for them (tools are something DH uses at work). This new system is meant to reduce the chances of that happening. The credit card is DHs personal card which he is responsible for. It's a ridiculous system though, right?

What's he been buying? Well it all looks like work related stuff. Flights, hotels, a couple of big dinner bills (where he forgot to claim for the tip so that's my family $25 out-of-pocket). He's not been abusing the system - he's just forgotten that crucial step of PAYING OFF THE F*CKING CARD when the bill comes in.

He says he feels terrible and he's sitting here with a big mopey face but can offer me nothing by way of comfort. I can't believe what a fool I have been scrimping and saving here and there. We already have issues with his work schedule and commitments but now I find my family have been subsidizing the operation (which incidentally reported millions in profit last year). While I am in a state of angst because DC3 needs new shoes and I can't find a deal...

Well people buying stuff for personal use on a company credit card would result in a disciplinary where I work (also international company), but that's neither here nor there in terms of your current situation

You haven't been a fool, you have been putting your family's financial stability first. It's what normal responsible people do

Your description of his reaction to the situation is making me want to scream on your behalf. You have done your bit. He has failed at a fairly basic admin task for an adult who holds down a job, and it has put your family finances at risk. HE needs to stop moping and come up with solutions

My dad had the same situation re credit card and I know others who do too.

Basically its claiming back your expenses rather than having a company credit card. Dad used to have to pay for things to do with work and would claim them back but rather than use family money to do it he took out a credit card and would pay off the balance in full every month when his expenses were paid, its not that unusual.

Assuming that the expenses were paid every month into your joint account and you control that, where was the money going? I know he hasnt claimed everything he could have, but £800 worth seems a lot of underclaiming.

In terms of making sure this doesnt happen again, well assuming you want to stay in the marriage I would say that you over see his expense claims by making sure they are filled out correctly and sent in on time, and taking over the credit card admin. So that means you open the statements and make sure the bill is paid on time every month.

Some people are genuinely shit with money. They dont do it deliberately and as someone who is now good with money after making some horrendous mistakes that almost lost me my home, I can understand the "I hoped it would go away" attitude. There are many people who simply dont open the statements/demands etc as they cant deal with what will be inside.

So you need to decide if you can accept that he is crap with money and you are happy with being totally in control of all the finances in order to keep the family on an even keel. Or.....you're not, in which case I dont see you marriage surviving because things will get worse.

My husband has the same arrangement. I didn't like it at first but I think it actually makes the employees more accountable, IYSWIM, because they make charges on the card, then have to account for them through receipts, and only then will the company stump up the money to pay for the credit card bills. My husband occasionally uses the card for personal stuff (if it is the only card accepted, etc) and this doesn't matter - the company pays us for the company-related expenses, and we pay the personal expenses. (We have never run a balance on the card.)

For those who don't understand the arrangement, the money is deposited in our account before the bill is due, and my husband uses it to pay off the card. I guess I am wondering what has happened in your case - has your husband made personal purchases on the card which he hasn't paid off, or have all the purchases been business-related, but he has not used the full amount of the company reimbursement against the balance? If it's the former, then he just has to pay the amount and charges, but if it's the latter, that could be construed as some sort of theft or fraud, couldn't it?

Either way, don't go to his boss. Ask him how he is going to sort it out.

Sorry, x-post, you've explained what I was asking.

petula The problem was it was hard to prove because all the areas are their own little operation with DH (or his equivalent) in charge. Everyone and everywhere is understaffed working in a high pressure, dangerous environment and chasing up CC receipts was pretty low on the priority list. That's my understanding anyway.

bogey I don't have a good answer for where the money was going. The facts are:
(1) I assumed he was looking after this as it's was the ONE thing I was not looking after (he knew this, it's not like each of us thought the other was taking care of the bill).
(2) There can be a long delay getting the expenses paid (one of DHs guys quit because the company owed him $2000 and the expense claim took weeks. They ended up expediting it for him and he came back to work). So when I saw a deposit from his company I assumed he had already paid that amount off the CC bill - but I had no proof that was happening....see point (1) above.

I need to have a talk with him to get the facts. Right now I can't even look at him.

Sorry, not being picky, just trying to work it out.

So you saw the deposit but didnt see a corresponding withdrawal/online payment? Did you not question that? Have you now records of your spending which presumably included the CC money?

I am NOT criticizing you at all, just trying to work out how it was missed.

Thats not to say that you should have sorted it by now, of course HE should have done and this is all at his door. I am just confused as to how it got to such a large amount being paid into your account with next to nothing being paid out and you not noticing.

bogey A lot of the deposits came in when I took the DCs on vacation for 3 weeks over summer leaving DH at home (he was not able to take any leave)...so that's probably how it was missed. I did notice he forgot to pay off our personal CC when I was gone and we got a late fee. He got a sternly worded email from me about that and took care of it (late fee refunded etc).

I'm just so pissed off - he's sitting here reading a book right now. Hardly wracking his brain on what to do about his mess. Don't get me wrong - we have more than enough in savings to pay this off but it just means there will be more austerity measures for us while we get those savings back up to where I am comfortable to start spending money again. Like I said, I run a Tight Ship.

And that was a budget vacation in case you were wondering: think staying with family (and in a tent).

Hey, you dont have to justify yourself to me, you spend your money on what you like!

I was just confused as to how it happened as you sound like with checking the bank statements. As I said above, I got in a right mess some years ago so now I am uber anal. First thing every day I check the online banking, and often more than once during the rest of the day, so I couldnt work out how it would be missed but that makes sense.

I am a bit concerned about how worried you are about your savings though. How much are we talking about in savings v how tight you are re spending? Everyone should have a cushion but it shouldnt become an obsession.

I would be v v pissed off at his attitude now though. Why not just say to him "Right, you owe X, how are you proposing to pay it off? I am not bailing you out this time." and see what happens?

bogey The numbers are not really important but I like us to have $10K in liquid savings before we start making any big purchases. That's almost a 2 month emergency fund - a lot less than the recommended amount but I am OK about that. Don't worry - I am not that tight with money, just sensible. For example if I am out with the kids I will pack some food and drinks for everyone rather than buy snack/lunch (we might get a treat to share).

I used to have a work card like this. The only thing I can suggest is that you get all the statements for the last year ( they'll issue duplicates if necessary) and then see if you can get or find receipts. He shouldn't be paying cash tips for work expenses because they're almost impossible to reclaim.

As far as your general finances are concerned, you seem to use a lot of cards. Do you need them and/or can you set up a direct debit to pay them every month? I'm guessing you're in the US so not sure how it works there. I'm also crap with money so that's what I do otherwise I would get late charges.

Finally, I do understand your money anxieties and your desire to have a cushion is commendable but it seems crazy to have substantial savings but not be able to buy your child new shoes.

If he is with the sort of company which issues corporate credit cards, is it also the sort of company which has an employee assistance programme, where you can get free advice?

I don't currently have a work CC, but I did with a previous employer, and it would have been a disciplinary issue (with the possibility of being sacked,) to miss payments like this and earn avoidable fees.

It was also a disciplinary matter to use it for anything non-work-related, even if you paid it off promptly out of your own pocket. It's not the same as a personal credit card, even if you're responsible for paying - corporate cards usually have much higher limits than you could get personally. But you say it looks like it is all company-related, so that's one less thing to worry about.

He needs to sort it out - you can't do it for him. But you could advise him to check the rules for its use, expenses guidelines or however they document it, to see how serious it is. Not all companies are the same, but I don't imagine any would be happy if this sort of thing came up on a card they're ultimately responsible for.

(I would be absolutely furious with him, if I were in your position.)

op I feel your pain. My dp lied to me about money for a long time, it started when we started saving for a mortgage and agreed we would each have a set amount to spend, not buying coffee everyday, taking lunch to work etc (I'm a SAHM) so knuckling down on essentials for me and the dc etc. it all spiralled because, like your dp, he thought the money magic fairies were going to come and sort it all out. We have had several 'make or break' arguments about him buying himself 3 lunches a week when I make him a lunch box (and myself for the next day so I don't graze) as agreed to save £, so not only is he throwing my food away, he's then 'rebuying' lunch and lying about it!
It took us a long time to get to the conclusion that he was the love of my life, but he doesn't even trust himself with money. So he earns it, and I designate it's spending. We both get allowances, the rest go into savings, which we occasionally dip into for 'oh fuck' purposes (such as dd needing new shoes two sizes bigger than her current pair a week before payday!) although tbh it looks like you already have that system in place.

Have you actually talked to him about this? I mean.. Sat there reading a book?! He doesn't seem too fussed I'd just say to him, your mess- sort it. Ask him about it weekly, how much he's paid off, where the money has come from, how much he will be paying off next.. Has he considered selling his testicles ?
Keep pushing, and just add his work credit card (dp has the same system!) to your pile of stuff you do. Me and do work beautifully.. As long as I'm in total control of the money. If it works for you as a couple then but a lot of people find it weird I control his money :/

I had the same thing happen. It really annoyed me and dh recognised it was a shitty thing to do. He is crap with detail and money and just lost receipts, didn't prioritise claiming, bought the odd thing here and there on the cc that he wasn't going to claim for etc. It then started accruing interest which was the thing that annoyed me the most as I am scrupulous to pay off debts immediately or use interest free cards and had i known what was going on I would have nipped it in the bud immediately.

IMO there isn't a way to solve it. All you can do is pay off the damn card, out of savings check that he has no outstanding receipts or claims and agree a way forward. Unless it is indicative of a bigger issue and you can't move on then you will have to ltb.

I manage all our household finances and dh feels like he has to ask me for stuff sometimes (obviously not everything as we bith have a spending allowance) which he doesn't like,and it does make me feel a bit odd, but I can't honestly see another way round it as he is totally unable to work to a budget and with three DC we have to have some kind of limit.

Flights, hotels a couple of big dinner bills.

All purchased for work. By work, at work ? Would the hotel and flights have been booked by himself or a department at work ?

Basically, they are all traceable. So, therefore why isn't he chasing up the paperwork so he's got something to submit for the expenses ?

Big mopey face...............reading a book............hoping it would go away. I'm not surprised you are furious. Look who's worried - it's you. Look who's taking control - it's you. Just like he knew you would. You're trying to fix it while he does what ? Oh that's right, mopes and reads a book. (He doesn't get why it's a big deal and why his mum er, I mean wife is cross with him.)

I don't understand why/how the money is owed by you personally when the balance is on a work credit card for legitimate work related items. It's a work credit card so, he's only accountable to his boss, right ? Why are you worried about paying the balance from your personal finances. I wouldn't.

Why should you subsidise his employer ?

I have a huge problem with taking my husband to our local airport for him to catch a business flight. To the point that I won't do it. His work can pay for a taxi. Why should I/we subsidise them ?

I dont understand why he doesnt just submit the claims for expenses? and then pay the card or do you mean he has done this but the bill didnt get paid?
Its easy to set up a system whereby the CC is paid in full each month but then you are relying on him to submit the claims and there might be a gap between the two.