what constitutes verbal abuse?

[Frogisatwat]

I can recognise the usual such as 'you're thick' hopeless etc..
but what about more subtle things. . Such as putting someone down not said in anger. Examples 'you are too disorganised' 'one child can be a mistake but why did you have another one?'
You made a poor 'choice of father' for your children.
Its all really low level stuff but the result is that I have just come out of an LTR feeling if only I had been a better person he wouldn't have cheated.
I am not looking for a label or for me to come over as a victim. I have experienced far worse abuse (physical and mental) in previous relationships but it was so obvious it was easier to deal with.

I guess I am just looking to work on myself so that I don't go through it again. Thinking of buying a book about recovering from verbal abuse but wanted to garner a few opinions. Maybe what he said is sort of normal chat in relationships?

No it isn't normal.
What is normal is for people in a relationship to be nice to each other.

If my DH said 'you made a poor choice with xxx decision' or 'you are a poor organiser ' or was continuously critical I would tell him to fuck off.

If someone keeps putting you down and making you feel bad about yourself without it ever being constructive then they are not a partner worth keeping.

Unfortunately it sounds like you met another abusive man but you were able to recognise the first drips of abuse. He was starting to hit at your self esteem, undermining you, putting you down. He thought he had worn you down enough to accept whatever scraps of love he threw in your direction and that you would be grateful. Thats why he cheated.
Work on yourself by all means but you are not to blame for this excuse of a man.

I had a good think yesterday. I got criticised for an awful lot and probably a lot of it was true. But there were things he did which I could see were bad moves and behaviours I found irritating. But I just supported him when things went wrong and for the irritating stuff I always thought you should take a long hard look at yourself before pulling people up on their 'faults'

But I didn't recognise it. I was so blinded by 'love' I just accepted what he was saying.

In the interest of 'fairness' he has been enormously helpful to me too. He was brilliant company most of the time and could make me feel very special. Then he could cut me down with a comment.

He actually had a list of my pros and cons with him when he decided to break up. .

All relationships throw up the occasional harsh word. 'Abuse' is when criticism, Insults, foul language, contempt, ridicule etc become a sustained campaign designed to crush someone's confidence, control them or intimidate them in some way. The key is that it is sustained and deliberate bullying. The severity is less important

Get the book "Emotional Abuse - How to Recognise it"by Patricia Evans...it gives some great insights into identifying those abusive comments which "appear" to be "normal" but leave you screwed up.

Hmm cogito. A lot to think about. The poor choice of father came up so so many times. There is nothing I can do about that (nor would I want to)
It was mainly my shortcomings which were probably the same as his. But I just sucked it up and never criticised because as I said earlier you need to look inside yourself first.
I just want to be in a place where I think fuck you I am great you've lost someone wonderful instead of feeling noones going to want me because im hopeless, disorganised and 'just' a single mother.

Thanks yetanotherchange. It was actually a Patricia evans book I found which made me think. ..

Yy to cogs post.
If his actions made you feel like he was better than you/more entitled to an opinion that is not a healthy rs.

Also if they manage to make you fearful of bringing up things you are unhappy about. A really common feature of abusive rs is he does x but I am not going to say anything because it just isn't worth the consequences. Once you are scared to question them they have the unequal power dynamic that allows a relationship to tip into abuse.

In a normal rs you might say "I am annoyed about x but I am going to choose my moment to bring it up when I am calm and I feel we might have a good talk and sort it all out" but in abusive one any attempt to talk is seen as the opening shots in the latest battle in the ongoing war. A rs should never be about winning.

Sorry if that is OT. But that was a defining feature for me.

All you have to do to think 'fuck you, I'm great' is to keep telling yourself that. Be with people who think you are grat. Set yourself a few challenges - large or small - and when you achieve something say 'I'm great'.

Movie stars and other celebrities surround themselves with PR people, flunkies and others who spend all day saying 'you're great'. Become your own best PR person, big yourself up, and his nagging little negative voice will gradually disappear.

frog maybe your first step is too think "fuck you. I had a lucky escape".

Even if you did make a bad choice, and so many of us with the benefit of 20-20 hindsight may have done differently, it is what you have done since despite that you should be proud of. You are not responsible for the father of your dcs uselessness. He is. But you have been a good mother to them despite this.

Your recent x has seen that vulberability and exploited it knowing it cannot be changed when what a decent person would have done is to point out how well you had dealt with it and how strong you are.

Have you considered the Freedom Programme.

Thanks cog and justice. . As always sense!
I do try and say to myself I am great. Its just the other voice is shouting louder. I have been considering the freedom programme for some time. I think its time to do it.

You're no longer with the owner of the louder voice. I don't know how long it has been since you broke up but that voice will get quieter with time. It will get quieter quicker if you put physical distance between you and if you stop engaging.

Meanwhile, count your blessings. Appreciate every victory, however small. Anything he said you couldn't do.... do it

I organised my house not for him.

Frog thats really common with those who have escaped abusive relationships. The abuser is still in your head because they get you to a point where they don't have to say or do anything because you have been conditioned to tread carefully and not rock the boat. Do you often have opposing dialogue in your head? Like if you wanted to do something but a voice inside tells you not to bother because you would be useless at it anyway.

How do you do the freedom programme, I've heard about it, on here a lot too of course.
Is it only for people who have decided to LTB ?! Or for anyone no matter what their circumstances?
Go for it Frog - I reckon there's a good level of self-belief hiding there somewhere, underneath all the crap both your partners have piled on top!
All the best to you as you uncover your wonderful self

The thing that has struck me most about all the abusers I have known, and there have been far too many of them, is that they seem to have a core motivation to score points, to attempt to feel superior, to "win".

The "I'm better than you" stuff is quite possibly because they know that they are not.

I can see it now. They are driven by their own terror of inferiority.

They are "trumpets". They always have to find a way of trumping someone else's deck.

This realisation has helped me, I hope it helps you.

BTW, The freedom programme is fantastic. I did it some years ago.

I believe anyone can do it, and it is available online.

Thanks queen. I'll have a look.
Not to de-rail thread I hope but as some of you might know I'm dealing with a mixed bag here.

No one is derailing anything. Its all about supporting each other isn't it?

Thanks Frog, I know that really - but sometimes I do go off on tangents a bit and I try to reign it in sometimes!

(that should probably be "rein"I guess!)

When I was going to womens aid before they explained that some women who attended were still with their partners. Its all about knowledge and empowerment.

How're you doing this evening Frog?