Relationship problem, is it me? What can I do?

[UnacceptableWidge]

I considered name-changing for this as I'm pretty sure my DH knows my username, but it isn't as if this problem is something he isn't aware of.
I don't want to write out a ten page OP so will try and be as brief as possible and get to the essence of what is wrong.

This is NOT a post about domestic violence, btw, nobody within our household is being physically abused. There is a problem though and I cannot decide that DH changes his behaviour so am after advice on how I deal with it, as I think I must have been approaching everything the wrong way for it to have become so bad I am considering us living separate lives.

My DH is miserable.

He moans, nags, criticizes and generally gives off a negative vibe which then effects the whole household.

He does not recognize this, states he is fine with no issues.

He has always been a bit of a glass half empty kind of person but the demands of life and a family have made him more of a 'glass is cracked and chipped, half empty with dirty water' kind of person. Any conversation about the way his attitude disrupts anyone else's life is met with "This is how I am, how I've always been. A person can't change who they are"

Recently we have had 2 incidents where his outlook has culminated in an aggressive outburst.
The first was with our DS(18). He has been going through a, hopefully quite common, phase of feeling that because he is an'adult' and has his own income, he no longer needs to be bound by the rules of the house. DS is not a morning person nor am I.
DH used to leave the house early but is now leaving later. Morning used to be relatively calm. As calm as they can be when getting 5 DC ready and out of house.
DHs way of 'helping' in the morning is to constantly nag. Nobody he tells to do anything is given more than 2 minutes to do it before they are told again and again and again Last week DS snapped at being told to put all his meat on his sandwich (bought with his own money) and the 2 of them went for each other. Myself and DS3 intervened and they both went off to work angry leaving the rest of the family stressed and upset.

The second was just last night. DH collected DD (8) and I from a concert.
In the heavy traffic an arsehole taxi driver almost hit our car while attempting to bully his way into line of traffic after noticing too late that his lane was closed. We both commented that he was out of order and I took his plate number and council number to report him.
Shortly after a car literally shot out of a junction to get into lane we were in at lights. We were moving very slowly and it was clear that this person was not about to wait to be let in, he barely looked at oncoming traffic either.
DHs response was to speed up then shout and swear while slamming on brakes.
I was seething as DD was screaming in the back seat and worried that the other driver (who had windows open and was shouting at DH) would come and tell us off. She was upset by a second incident within a fortnight where she has experienced the frustrations of her dad coming out in such an unusual and aggressive manner.

I am certain these two outbursts are a reflection of a deep unhappiness (not depression) combined with his reassurance, to himself, that his misery is an innate personality trait.
He does not chat, talk, unload to anyone that I am aware of about any stress he is under. Conversations with one of his oldest friends are hour long chats on phone about football with a 2 minute how's the family? great how's yours? tagged onto the end.
He chats regularly to his DF but would never discuss the family or anything particularly negative with him.

I have suggested counselling but feel he is reluctant to do this.

I cannot live with this anymore. We have had countless conversations about how unhappy I am but I don't think he realizes just how much his behaviour is dragging me down.
I do not want to come home from work.
I am exhausted trying to get him to see my point of view.
I am tired of walking away and not intervening when our DC are being berated for something minor, while they are doing ten thousand things to try and please him.
I find it very difficult not to say 'I told you so' now that the eldest 2 DS have stopped trying (I warned about 5 years ago that if they were constantly criticized, nagged and basically told they weren't good enough they would quit trying)

I fantasize about the life of a single parent...how can that be a fantasy for anyone!!!!

Has anyone else had this in their family? If so, how did you deal with it?
How can I encourage him to see what we see, address his problems and get back the DH I had years ago?
I know I am not a perfect human being btw, who is? I am quite sure I am no picnic to live with, yet I genuinely believe that I do not have any power here to change the environment within our household.
I am at a total dead end.

Sorry that was as short as I could make it within needing to dripfeed later. I hope somebody can offer me someone some wisdom and advice?

We have spent the morning talking after I read what he'd written last night.
His number one, he is unhappy.
2, feels unheard
3, he feels boring
4, money worries
5, pressure from his parents

After talking its 1 & 2 that are bothering him the most. It's upsetting him that his constant nagging is getting him nowhere and if anything DC are responding to it less. We both agreed that it has gotten worse in the last couple of years.

Timing coincides with me going back to work.

He hasn't said and I haven't suggested this but I wonder if he feels more pressure to have the house 'perfect' now that I am not the 'housewife' ( not that I have ever been a particularly good one)

He's gone out for the day now with his DF and we are all off to a football thing.

The DV thing is as Dalkenium suggested unhelpful. Thing here have been shit for a long time. Labelling the end result of his misery won't help us move forward.

I'm not certain what will but feel him recognising and/or admitting how very unhappy he is might be positive.

what's he unhappy about then?

If he's unhappy what is HE doing to change that?

he sounds a self indulgent arse tbh. sorry.

He is depressed... He needs to see his GP and with some antidepressant s he will be more able for things...my dh was like this...he was fantastic with kids when younger..very outdoors..fun...but found it hard to make transition to them having their own lives and opinions.. his dad had been an army guy and they jumped when he said jump..this coincided with a very stressful time in his work..also l had counselling myself and became far more independent and free ..all his own insecurities came spilling out.. it was like he was frantically trying to get everyone back in his little box but it was too late..kids were growing up ..l was strong about not putting up with his moping and complaining ...he ended up eventually going to Go..own decision and then had some counselling when antidepressants kicked in...can't say he became wonderman but at least now he knows he is the problem...l think as Moms we know with growing kids is all about relationship but if men are brought up in a male led house they find adjustment hard...your dh seems good friends with his dad..my dh was best friends with his dad...he never questioned his way of being when they were kids ...

It's too easy to give a diagnosis of depression- loads of people feel unhappy, stressed, worried about money etc etc but they are depressed - it's just life and he does have 5 children.

He needs to see someone like a counsellor or a coach to discover what he is unhappy about and how to change that.

Saying you are unhappy is a cop out because what exactly does that mean?

not depressed..

We have a similar situation in out household, Widge, and we've been talking, too.

My DH is not the man I married 18 years ago. He's ratty, short tempered, shouty and generally stressed out. He tries to micro manage us, and would - given the chance - tell us how to make our sandwiches! During the week, when he calls me from the office, he's all sweetness and light. Why can't it continue at home?

It gets heaps worse on Sundays. We're on eggshells all day.

So - I have not come on to hijack your thread - but want to add what we have decided to do after several long chats. I have been this close (presses thumb and forefinger together) to leaving the situation, but I feel that DH needs a chance to put things right. I'm not about to quit a long marriage if I can help it!

1. Throw the towel down and tell him you're moving out if he doesn't try and find some help - be it counselling, life coaching - whatever. I was prepared to leave temporarily. DH now seeking counselling vis work. Maybe your DH needs to find a new job.

1. Tell him to get a hobby. Preferably a sporty one. DH is really benefitting from some regular exercise at weekends. It has been proven to release stress out of your system, and it sort of works.

1. Go out for supper - just the 2 of you. We hadn't been out as a couple for years. I thought the toddler years were awful, but the teenage years are worse. You get no time to yourselves. Go for a 2 for 1 pizza. It doesn't need to cost the earth.

DH now knows too many people who are losing the plot in their lives. Needing admission to The Priory etc. Executive stress seems to be rife.

It sounds like the fact you are not all cow towing to him any more is

1. Making him unhappy
2. He feels unheard

He is losing control and cannot bully you all any longer as the DC are growing up and you have more independence. He doesn't like this feeling.

By the way, if a car needs to join my lane because they haven't realised theirs has closed, I let them in.

I'm not being facetious, I just intend to make an observation.

I think this happens quite a bit. We get an opening post similar to the one on this thread - friction between the father and children and a woman at the end of her tether. There's sometimes but not always been violence from the father. By the end of the thread it's about a man with depression.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this, just wondering what it's all about I guess.

Think its not wrong to say depression...if a woman was on saying couldn't cope..cranky ..overwrought..e Focusing on little things ...stressed in work we would say you may be depressed see your doctor... Obviously this is not the only answer but for me it made a window for us to deal with whats happening...think idea of sport is good..my dh started swimming..cycling...better form when came in...he very definitely had to look at how he was parented himself...l think ha ing teenagers can bring up a lot of unresolved issues from our own family...

(Do you mind me asking why you use fullstops like that comedancing?).

I think if a woman came on saying she was cranky, couldn't cope, was overwhelmed and had physically lunged at her child over a sandwich people would be telling her she had an anger problem and needed to see a doctor and take responsibility for her actions.

Yes comedancing why are you using ellipsis instead of full stops?
Are you intending to write your posts like unfinished, more to come... sentences...

it makes it hard to read.

Whatever is happening with him, it's his responsibility to sort it. Nobody else can do it for him.
If his behaviour affects other people, they can point it out to him, even tell him to sort it out, but they don't have to put up with it. Particularly if he doesn't recognise there is a problem and does nothing about it.

Dear me... She can do what she likes...you both sound like op's husband...nitpicking...

for better for worse. Sounds like a worse time for you all. Except this has gone on for a long time. It is excruciating to read you've been talking to him about this for five years at least. I'm not surprised you're going up the wall and don't want to come home.

I think you have to stop trying to convince him - he's just not hearing it, and it is wearing you down to the bone = lose/lose. He hears 'you are crap'.

I do think you have to get tough about this, because it's unbearable for you all ( it is unbearable that kids are living in this tbh). It's not the dark ages, appropriate therapeutic support and training is out there to at least learn the basics of communication and conflict management ie that making an observation is not attacking, it's basic communication, essential in a lt relationship. He is/you both are stuffed up a blind alley, with him - and you too eg endlessly explaining - trying the same (ineffectual) tactics over and over, and getting increasingly unhappy and desperate that they're not working. They're not working because they are faulty tactics - the evidence of that is in the result, which is going nowhere and making you all miserable.

So get tough: he has to deal with this with a trained professional. Don't explain in detail and depth, he won't hear it, which will frustrate you both. Imo you have to make this a condition of going forward. He's doesn't get to choose whether he fancies it or not.

Hi,
More food for thought, thank you.
ishouldcocoa useful tips but those things already exist. He is happy with his job, has hobbies and time away from the family unit, we do try and spend time together.
Throwing the towel in is where I am now. The discussion this morning was a things must change, life will not continue this way for me.

I am fully prepared to work on faults from my end but I won't spend more time banging my head against a wall and having the same issues. I think (or maybe hope) that he has got that message.

I appreciated your input from your posts vivacia I did feel that you were expecting to hear another version that the one I'd outlined, I've seen many threads go that way myself, but I hadn't omitted any details.
I came asking for advice so wouldn't have muddied the waters by being anything other than clear on the situation we are in.
He has undeniably ended up with a problem dealing with his anger. That has to be addressed.

Thank you springydaffs I am tempted to copy your post and send it to him verbatim.

Forgot to say hamptoncourt I don't think anyone has suddenly stopped cow towing. The nagging approach to parenting has never, ever worked for him. Never. I think unhappiness and feeling unheard is more down to the fact that, certainly the older DC, have learnt to simply tune it out. So, yes, he has literally become unheard because they have learnt that he'll nag and moan regardless of their actions.

It sounds like, Unacceptable - that the situation has become -well - Unacceptable. (I use the capital "U" knowingly).

Its plain old Anger Management for him, next. After that...? Depends on if he wants to change.

We are still at the stage of wanting to change, but last night was unbearable here. Sunday nights are always always the worst.

Not sure if I can add any more, other than I feel your pain :(

ishouldcocoa why are Sunday nights the worst in your home?
At the moment here it is so strained and tense between us because we know we have a lot to work on but are both feeling kind of shell-shocked and are trying to work out the how

Did anything move on for your family ishould after you'd started trying the suggestions you gave me? A friend has suggested marriage guidance She'll recognise her own advice if she is on this thread I think she may be right, because it isn't just him that has reached the end of his tether, I have too. We may be expressing that in different ways but I think our unproductive communication probably plays a big part in it.

It's not even as though the world can stop while we try and sort it out. Work/family etc still needs to be sorted out. It's so hard to focus on doing anything right when it feels like everything is going to ruin

Oh and meant to say to comedancing that you're so right about the issues we have from our own upbringing. DH wouldn't even had a first thought about questioning his own father, never mind a second one! I suspect that contributes to his feeling of being unheard. He probably grew up thinking when he was a dad he would say jump and his own DC would say how high, but that's not the kind of parent he has been.

I'm not sure being 'depressed' and being treated as such is DH's solution though. He is perfectly happy at work and as I said has hobbies that he enjoys.

I am tired of walking away and not intervening when our DC are being berated for something minor, while they are doing ten thousand things to try and please him

that if they were constantly criticized, nagged and basically told they weren't good enough they would quit trying

^^^^ THESE jumped out at me. They will either grow up to be 'people pleasers' or with the same traits as your DH.

So he as been putting your poor DC down for years and years?
That is DV right there.

No wonder they don't listen when he 'nags'.
He's not saying anything contructive. He's not helping. He's just dishing out orders and due to all his bad behaviour has no respect from other members of the household so they don't listen and won't ever listen until he can be constructive and helpful.
Blimey, it's hardly rocket science. They are 'pushing back' after years of put downs and criticism.
You're doing it now too. And who can blame you.
There's only so much anyone can take.

His IS unheard, because he IS boring and monotonous!!!
You've all had years of 'dripping tap' torture. You will all snap eventually.

My DH is very similar to yours, OP. Always negative. Not so aggressive - more passive aggressive. But he always speaks to the children in an aggrieved and unhappy tone. Resentful.

I've tried to leave but he won't move out. I have halfway moved out but now I have to support him because he lost his job.

It's just a miserable life. Awful. I hope you can find a way to be happier than I am.

His IS unheard, because he IS boring and monotonous!!!

you are dead right there Hellsbells however, and I'm sure it's going to be explained to me why it is DV but him whining and moaning about shoes on the floor, bags on the table, untidy bedrooms,not putting bike away,crumbs on side...
yes it's draining, irritating and annoying. It's poor parenting skills. I cannot stand it, but are our DC being abused by that??

Fabulassie I am so sorry you are in a similar situation.

He sounds depressed to me. Anxiety issues, perhaps? Your beginning descriptions fit my depressive ex exactly.

All that stuff you describe: the constant nagging and moaning, the negativity, could be considered abusive, yes. Because it sounds very controlling and that is a form of abuse.

I may have missed it somewhere on your thread, but I'm assuming you've pointed out to him that his approach is not working. i.e, the DCs don't respond well to it. Why can he not understand that?

I have some family members (in-laws), who grew up with a dad like that. Very controlling and miserable and nagged them all the time. They don't have a great relationship with him now as adults. For one thing, they don't tell him much about their lives, because they fear his reaction to their 'failures'.

Sunday nights are the worst because of work the next day. A lot of DHs behaviour is based on the stress from his work. He's been promoted, and promoted some more... All slightly against his will, and now he says he can't get out. I'm sure it's a male ego/ pride thing... We are not short of money, but seem to be short on everything else. Money certainly doesn't buy happiness.

But it's ruining our relationship. DS and I on a Sunday night look at each other and raise our eyebrows when DH goes off on one. It seems to make matters worse, but I've tried the 'not engaging' route, and that's no good either. Occasionally he wakes up on Monday morning and utters a vague apology, but I've been awake most of the night stressed out.

Anyway - back to you Widge. If you haven't tried marriage counselling, maybe you should. I can imagine that it will either transpire that you both need it, or something else will surface (like possible depression as ppl have said) and it can get dealt with on a logical basis. DH works along the lines of "we have a problem. There is the solution. Apply solution to problem. Bingo! Problem solved " if only life was that simple!