Atmosphere with in laws- how to resolve

[mermaid101]

There are tensions between me and my in laws. There has been no falling out or anything. However, there appears to be mutual antipathy. I feel that over the years they have been quite dismissive/unkind to me. There are several instances I can think of, but it is more just their general attitude towards me.

I've been fairly philosophical about this, but my husband told me today how difficult he finds it. He says they feel I don't like them. This is true, but I feel like this because of how I think they have been with me.

I think I have been quite selfish and not given enough thought to how difficult this must be for my DH. I need to find a way to try to move this situation forward. But I just go d it so difficult to be anything more than polite with them.

In the interests of not drop feeding, we have a 3 year old and a new baby (9 weeks). Things are not going well. The baby is not sleeping well. We are exhausted and I think I might have mild post natal depression.

Totally agree the time to sort this is NOT NOW.

When you are feeling better and the baby is older, I think you would benefit hugely from an assertiveness course. Unless your ILs are raging narcissists (in which case, there's no point seeing them at all), you would actually get on better if you were able to pull them up on their rudeness straight away. Being nice has made neither of you happy.

But most of all you have a DH problem - he's made this your problem to fix, they're his parents! He also doesn't seem to be 100% backing you and is making out it's your fault.

Imagine the following:
MIL: I think Mermaid doesn't like me
DH: Well, mum, if you didn't keep going on about her being posh it would help. And it really hurt her when you made her sit on the floor after her C-section.
MIL: Oh.
DH: Mermaid's actually really struggling at the moment but doesn't feel she can tell you as you tend to reply with an anecdote about how X managed in a situation that was so much worse. You don't seem to like her much either.
MIL: I had no idea, we must try and be more helpful.

Above conversation doesn't involve you at all and is much better than your DH's current solution of 'it's all mermaid's fault' and 'Mermaid must try harder to be a doormat'.

Spot on Kundry. I've changed my view totally coming back to this thread. I've had IL issues but they only got resolved when DH stepped up and dealt with them. Much histrionics from MIL followed by a period of minimal contact but now we are fine.

My thoughts are: the hell with them! Plus I would not want my nine week old baby in their house, if they smoke in their house.

I totally agree with kundry, my DH always backs me up with his similar p and the last thing you need is your DH pushing this on you and undermining you when you're feeling low so that you attempt more overtures to be nice that will likely be met with more hurtful coldness. I also wouldn't go out of my way to discuss this with your DH, I'd stand your ground but also mention that since you're both very tired, this is an unhelpful sideshow best left for later.

I agree with the posters saying now is not the time to be dealing with this. Leave it alone.

Your DH should absolutely have got his fucking father to stand up and give you his chair, that's disgusting! and then to have the utter gall to send you, a woman who'd just had major abdominal surgery, out to find his fucking sugar?? Words fail me. They truly do.

I'm not surprised you don't like them. They don't sound likeable.

If your DH has a problem with the situation then he can talk to them - you're not in a fit state to worry about their precious feelings at the moment!

Why is your DH trying to bring this to a head now, when you're at your lowest? Has he also had the same conversation with them?

I had a similar thing with a post section hospital visit. This time around we banned them from visiting.

It always amazes me when grandparents behave this way. They have no legal rights at at all. They must be very confident you will just lay down and take it. A friend of mine hit back to her in laws in a similar situation and they were grovelling in no time, terrified of not seeing DGC so often. Often it is the MIL who cracks first.

I agree that it is his parents he needs yo be telling, not you!
Sit on the floor and then fetch sugar indeed!

Thanks everyone for all the responses.

Kundry, I would love it if my DH would have this sort of conversation with his parents. I think it would be the perfect way to start resolving this situation.

However, the problem is that he has an "explanation" for almost every time I think they behave badly towards me.

I think he is deliberately turning a blind eye, but I suppose there is a chance that I have totally mid read the dynamic?

I think there is a high chance he hasn't properly realised the implications of marriage and now you have a baby, this is hitting home for you.

In terms of 'have you misread the dynamic' - no, and he hasn't bothered trying to work out the dynamic himself or whether or not he's misread it. He still making you do all the relationship work here and then getting upset if you haven't magicked any problems away for him.

Can you try broken record technique 'They're your parents not mine', 'Seeing your parents is for your enjoyment not mine, I'll be out'

There is also the option of a massive screaming row where you point out he hasn't got your back, never supports you and his parents are arses and you hate them. This isn't necessarily a bad thing as currently he's just ignoring your feelings.

Hmmmm. If I wasn't so tired, I think I might go for the screaming row! I do feel like it sometimes.

I'm actually quite happy to see them as little as possible and to be polite when I do. That's what I've been doing up until now.

I was just a bit taken aback when my DH told me his parents think I don't like them and he felt caught in the middle because he seemed pretty upset about it but also because I assumed by keeping out their way, I was minimising any scope for cross words and bad feeling.

Mermaids, I think you need to have the screaming row, because this, along with the other issue might be an attempt to justify something.. you know the old "she doesn't make any effort for me...she makes me unhappy... " justification, justification blah blah, nip it in the bud now x

Your husband isn't helping is he, lay it out plain and simple for him, why you are not over moon about his parents and also tell him to take his blinkers off and back you up when they take a swipe at you.

You are wrecked tired, emotionally spent, physically shattered and he has the nerve to come to you with this crap about mummy and daddy feeling you don't like them now? It's ridiculous and it looks like they put him up to it, they are playing him like a fiddle.

They are the shits.

mermaid you hold ALL the cards, if only you could see that you do and have more confidence in yourself.
You are very tired and stressed ATM which surely makes it difficult to see the situation clearly and easy to maybe get things out of proportion.
Of course you need to stand up for yourself against anyone who makes you feel bad. But unfortunately these people are not anyone. These people are your babies blood relatives and the DM and DF of your husband, who you appear to love. Your DH also loves them.
They have said that they feel you don't like them and you say that this is true. When anyone feels that someone does not like them it can lead to defensive and aggressive behaviour on their part.
Could you ask yourself... Have they been good parents to your DH? Did they do a good job? Would it be possible for you to soften towards them and try and consider any good points that they have and possibly concentrate on those, instead of their bad points.
If you start screaming at them and listing their faults do you honestly think that it will improve the situation ? I think it is better to work on your self esteem so that you have the confidence to reply calmly and assertively to anything they have to say.
Unless you go NC with them then the only way forward is to try and get on with them. I feel this is what you would like to do for the sake of your husband and children.
You can be the better person here. You probably are anyway.
Certainly wait until you are getting a decent nights sleep and then see how you feel about them. Best of luck xx

Thanks so much, hole.
That does sound like sensible advice, but I'm not quite sure how i would be more assertive as I think the things they say to me are ambiguous and non direct.

For example, when I told my fil I was sore from my operation and he sneered and said "you look fine to me" implying I was making a fuss, what should I have said?

They often tell very pointed stories about other poeple which I feel are criticisms of me. When we got married, we moved to a "nice" area.
My PIL often tell me about people they know who moved away to similar areasand didn't like it because the neighbours were stuck up and unfriendly and promptly moved back. They aren't directly saying anything about me, but I feel like it is a dig. They do this about other areas of my life.

When they came to see out new house they didn't say one nice thing about it. As we were showing them round, my fil told us how clever his other grandchildren were. I was a bit put out and non pluses. I did want to say or do something, but wasn't sure what?

They sound nasty and ignorant and I agree you should ignore them at least until you are feeling better and can stand up to them.

Do you have any friends or neighbours who could help with a bit of babysitting ? I lived a long way from my parents and in laws when my children were little but my neighbours, who had older children, would happily take the screaming baby and put him in front of the washing machine for entertainment, while I had a nap, or focused on the toddler.

There are some people in this world with whom it is impossible to mend fences because they are stuck in their bigoted ignorant ways. Your PILs have decided that you are stuck up; your cool behaviour to them has just set that in stone for them.

HOWEVER - that is not the only problem, is it. You being "stuck up" (and I'm not saying you are) does NOT mean that you should be made to sit on the floor a couple of days after major abdo surgery - anyone who thinks that is ok is insane and completely inhuman. You should not have been made to fetch sugar like a serving girl under the same circumstances.

I disagree completely with Hole - you should not have to accept their snobbery and bullying just because you are married to their son. They are never going to be nice to you, they are never going to accept that their behaviour is out of order, because they are dogmatic pigs (and that's being unkind to pigs) who have absolutely no care nor consideration for you as a human being, let alone as a DIL.

So - be polite. See them whenever you absolutely have to, and be civil when you do, but generally avoid them. They don't want to see you, they don't like you - let your DH see them when he feels like it but make it clear that you are not going to subject yourself to their abhorrent behaviour.

If he honestly cannot see how wrong that episode after your CS was, then he really needs his eyes opened - I'm still outraged about it on your behalf!

It is NOT your fault mermaid that his parents are the ways they are; they are very much a product of their own upbringing as is your DH at their hands. Such inbuilt conditioning takes an awful long time to undo as well.

Many people use "tried and tested" methods when it comes to dealing with family members but when family members are difficult or unyielding, those methods do not work out. Its very difficult to actually stand up to such people thereafter because the rule book here re familial relations actually goes out the window when it comes to emotionally unhealthy and dysfunctional families. They simply do not operate in the same ways as normally healthy functioning families do, you can see that by the nature of the digs they get in. Its all very subtle and underhand and your DH either cannot or will not see it. Its not an apparent lack of assertiveness on your part that is the problem either, you likely get on very well with all other people in your social circle; its the ILs that are the problem.

You can change how you respond to them, there is no law to say that you must see such people anyway even if there are grandchildren. If you find them too difficult to deal with they could all too easily start on your children as well. They are not good grandparent models because of the ways in which they treat you.

Your DH I think would like all this to go away and for you all to get along and yes he is turning a blind eye to it. This is because he then would never have to say anything at all to his parents, I feel that he is acting in the ways he is as well because he is still seeking their approval even now and he does not want to "upset" them. He is far more afraid of them than he is of you. They have been "smart" here; they have not approached you directly but have used him which is also another tactic used by such people. Your DHs actions however are simply hurting his own family. The problem lies also very much with him; his primary loyalty should be to you now and not they.

From what you write of them I doubt very much if they have been at all "good" parents to your DH; they use their son for their own ends and are critical and nasty towards you. There is no law to say that you must get on with the relatives, you would not have put up with any of this from a friend and family are no different. I would suggest you read "Toxic Inlaws" by Susan Forward to further understand the dynamics.

You need to think in the short term about your own boundaries with regards to these people, you do not have to see them very much if at all. I do not think this can be repaired; these people do not want to be a part of that process of repair and their attitudes are too deeply ingrained.

I have no doubt these people are a complete pain in the arse, but I don't quite get the story about sitting on the floor - why is it their fault? Was there really no other chair in the house for you or your husband? Did they know that? I'd be quite surprised if I was invited to someone's house, sat on their chair and was then expected to get up and stand as there were two seats too few. If the host sat on the floor I'd probably assume that she couldn't be bothered to fetch a chair from the other room and was fine on the floor, especially if she said so. Or have I completely missed what was going on there?

Ravenmum - really?!? If I was in someone ELSE'S house, sat on my arse on a chair, and the hostess starts to sit on the floor - especially after having a c-section - I would be off the chair so fast you'd think my arse was on fire.

How is a woman recovering from a c section meant to carry a chair in from another room anyway??

Mermaid - Different people have different approaches to these things. The only "wrong" way, is to say nothing at all, and let it turn you slowly insane.

When you start getting a little more sleep, I really think you could do with reading up on assertiveness, and trying to put your foot down more. Whilst, yes, this is your husband's family, he has already shown that he is too much of a coward to say anything about it. Husband or no, you should be able to rely on yourself if you need to.

If someone makes a barbed comment, call them out on it, either directly or dripping with sarcasm.

"I know X who moved to that area and everyone was so posh and unfriendly that he came home within a year"
"Well of course. People in our area normally have their mouths so stuffed with caviar and macrons that it's difficult to make small talk" OR

"Maybe he just missed getting regular exercise from having to run away from the street thugs/muggers around here" (sweet smile)

"How are you doing?"
"Okay, but infected"
"Well you look fine to me"
"Thank you. That would be the maybelline." OR
"Thanks for your input - remind me, where did you do your medical degree again?" OR
"If you need "evidence" then I can show you the bruised, pus dripping wound if you like? No? Oh okay then".

More than anything, you need to put yourself first.

If someone asks for sugar, tell them they know where the cupboard is.

Well, obviously I would have expected her husband to get any chairs! Why would you think I was suggesting that she should? Frankly, I would have expected him to have done this in advance rather than putting his visitors in such an awkward situation. As a visitor I kind of expect my hosts to have planned for me to sit down.

Do they know where the sugar is? Did they expect HER to get the sugar? Is it not normal to say "Oh, can I have some sugar?" when visiting someone?

I think they were in a hospital room of some sort.

I am not going to defend your in laws because they sound difficult, but I think there may some of your own insecurities making what they say feel worse. Eg my own father, the most loving father I could have had would not have a clue what to say if I told him my c section scar was infected. He might express some vague platitude but equally would probably try to be "encouraging" by telling me he thinks I look fine.

I can't help wondering here if both you and your in laws don't really understand how to communicate with each other. And as others have said, your dh is not helping as he should be "translating". So, when you are sitting on floor and giving pil benefit of he doubt perhaps they don't feel comfortable telling you what to do, dh should have said,"oi, dad, up you get. Mermaid needs the couch". They did ask of you minded and you said no. I am certain that in that situation my mother would have stayed on the couch, feeling extraordinarily uncomfortable the entire time.

If she was still in hospital, then they absolutely are inconsiderate!

Mermaid, people often think of a caesarean as an everyday thing, and forget it's major surgery. Maybe you are/were trying to cope too well, and not getting across how bad you feel? Your husband does seem pretty clueless, too. Did he really have no idea that he should be doing this kind of thing for you, treating you like you might break, as husbands are supposed to? Maybe you need to spell things out for him a bit more and not just assume he knows you are suffering.

I really think the bottom line issue is the DH.
You don't want smokers holding your baby - but instead of making this clear before they visit and being firm about it, he holds the baby to keep it out of reach. That means he can't carry chairs so that everyone has somewhere to sit.
He doesn't tell them off when they make you run around having just had a cs. He doesn't tell them off when they are rude. When he gives you a break by looking after the DC, he takes them to his parents (a smokers house). He then relays comments they have made about you back to you. He doesn't contradict their snipping.

Sorry but he is a father now, and needs to grow a pair and stand up to his parents. He should be putting his wife and children first, and making it clear he does so.