is it normal for me to feel like Dp hates it when i speak ...

[treesap]

Dp and I have been together 6 years we have 2 beautiful children , we have always had to work Extremely hard at our relationship ( harder than others I feel ) and we are probably at a point where we are too comfortable we both have quite bad tempers and sharp tongues we bicker quite a lot but I think that's just who we are ...
Being in a relationship defiantly doesn't come naturally to either of us (mayb we are products of our upbringings -both from broken homes and dysfunctional families and are very concious and under of giving our children what we never had ...... maybe its just who we are i'm not sure )
but the thing i struggle with the most is that whenever i speak about anything either serious or just chit chat he seems to be in physical pain.
I have spoken to him many times about this and been on many occasions quite upset about it he genuinely seems to understand , sympathise and want to do better but then then the next thing i say he just Glazes over as usual ..
I see him having conversations with other people and he can converse with the best of them but with me he had no response , constantly misses the point and either has a response that makes no sense completely irrelevant or doesn't bother to respond at all ... he also is very good at saying exactly what i want to hear but with no actual reason or meaning and i never know if its honest or just rubbish i struggle to take anything he says seriously as i feel he just says things for the sake of it or just says what he thinks i want to hear .... its as if he has know opinions or actual thoughts of his own .. he will just repeat back to me whatever i have said
He does the same when we are arguing and will say abck to me what i have said to him as if i haven't said it which then gets us no where . like he is a robot programmed to say certain things .

Is this normal typical man behaviour - a concept i find difficult to accept to begin with . or are we doomed .

I worries me to think i am going to spend the rest of my life having no-one to talk to the one person who i should be able to talk to about anytihng

No, it's not normal OP. But I think you know that.

It sounds horrid, I'm sorry. No good advice to offer, but I am sure that more helpful people will have some soon.

No it's not normal, but it might be some kind of defence mechanism that he developed within his dysfunctional family.

It's obviously upsetting you, he equally obviously can't help himself even though he says he's trying so you might need to sort out some kind of therapy - either family therapy, or relationship, or individual, depending on what you think might be the most helpful.

That is not normal.

Communication is the basis of any good relationship.

In answer to your question. Yes, doomed.

In the context of a healthy, loving adult relationship it's not normal at all. Neither is constant bickering, bad tempers and sharp tongues. If you've grown up in that kind of atmosphere maybe it's all you know and, if so, I'm sorry about that. Your children must find it all very stressful

It's typical twat behaviour. Why do you put up with itn ?

it is really beginning to get me down i feel deflated every time i try to talk and its like i'm talking to a hologram that cant see or hear you ..... i mention it or say can you even hear me and he either gets cross or says he was listening. and acts as tho he genuinely is shocked as though h eh doesn't know he is doing it
but everytime we talk about it he is so adamant that he's listening ..
He never makes eye contact with me when i speak or even looks in my direction .. and will change the subject straight away .. for example i was asking him whats the best plan for dp birthday is and he replied ' yer i no thats a tricky one ... whats for diner ' and i want to scream

relationship counselling is what i keep thinking but we cant afford it ... i also feel if he is genuinely not interested in anything i say whats even the point i dont want him to need training to want to have a conversation with me .

Couples counselling is unlikely to help a rude, arrogant person become a polite, attentive one. No-one should need lessons in how to have a civil conversation with their partner.

it is how we have grown up .. and i agree that it is a defence mechanism, for him

the sharp tongue and bad temper we have spent years trying to overcombe for our children sake we have both done numerous parenting courses , anger management courses , working with the nursery nurse from the children's centre to be the best parents we can be despite our upbringings we are very aware of the negatives and are doing our very best to fight them with everything we have ..
I do often feel our feel our children have drawn the short straw but are both doing our very best to be the best that we can . e are at a place now where we keep it under raps around them to the best of our ability.

but i agree communication is the basis of a good relationship and im sure he didnt used to be like this and i dont know now where to go from here ..

any fucker - he is not a twat!! he is hard working , kind , considerate a good hands on dad , has worked Extremely hard to be the best at he can be in all apects of life despite his childhood and lack of education. he spends time with the children helps out around the home and is a good decent man . thats WHY i put up with it . (looking ofr advice not judgement thank you )

tears !!

If he is so kind, considerate and decent why is he acting like he plain doesn't like you and is irritated/uninterested in everything you have to say?

You seem to be coming from a place where you want to stay with this person at all costs because you've spent years trying to overcome your various bad behaviour. That just seems illogical to me. If, despite all the course and all the input, you're still incapable of functioning together as a couple, talking kindly to each other and creating a happy home for your DCs, at what point do you accept that it's simply not working?

IME people don't change all that much unless they really want to do it for themselves. If you go into a relationship with someone who is 90% OK thinking that love and courses can make up the 10% that annoys the living crap out of you, it's a big mistake.

Have you asked him why he zones out with you? You've said that he sympathises, apologises and then does it again - but does he know WHY? Does your voice remind him of someone else in his family?

This is barely related but still - years ago I was given a black wig, bob style and I wore it around, pretending that I'd had my hair cut and dyed (it's VERY different from black bob!) My Dad refused to speak to me, couldn't even look at me - because with that hairstyle and colour, I reminded him very strongly of an ex-colleague who he hated, and he couldn't dissociate it from the image I was presenting. I never wore it around him again, it was too upsetting for us both!

So, that was just to illustrate how sometimes things can trigger a response, even though it's not directed specifically at you - but he would need to know why he's having that response with you. It might not be something else, it might be you - but how can you know unless he knows and tells you?

Another thing - you're suggesting he is completely disengaged from you, not looking, not listening (except he is because he's parroting stuff back to you, or knows the set responses that you are expecting) - have you tried something like touching his arm, taking his hand, putting a hand on his shoulder - engage a different sense, it might help him to respond better to you.

Some people react better to different sense stimuli - another good one from my parents (hopeless communicators) - I did a test on them and it turned out that my Mum was primarily an auditory processor, while my Dad was primarily a visual processor and had very little auditory capacity. Mum always said that Dad never listened, Dad always said that Mum never saw things his way - well no! they didn't. Mum would have done better leaving notes for Dad (or using semaphore/sign language) and Dad would have done better to speak to Mum more rather than using visual cues and expecting her to respond to them.

OR - he could just be fed up within the marriage and just CBA, but that one really is quite hard to address. :(

OP, you don't think "why do put up with it" is a valid question ?

I have watched my father treat my mother like shit for nearly 50 years

He treats her like a non person too

it never got any better, and it never will

she is on anti depressants and anti anxiety medication just to get through the day

she still seeks his approval but it will never be forthcoming

don't let that be you

yes, ask yourself "why do you put up with it" and keep asking

I believe he is decent .. i believe he has never been taught how to behave , he has never been taught how to be a gentleman he has never had any descent role models in his life suffers from dispraxia. I believe he has vision and wants to be a descent person /dad . had voluntarily been on different parenting courses and counselling to better himself despite not coming to him naturally . I DO believe he loves me and i love him very much and we DID have this at the beginning of our relation ship as a courting couple we would talk for hours on the phone , would stay upo all night talking together in bed etc .. so its not as though i met him and tried to change him (although admittedly saw room for improvement )

but i do feel as though sometimes he doesnt actually like me (sometimes )

cogito are you stating everyones relationships are 100% perfect ?

the consensus seeems to be that i pack my children up this instand and leave?

Mum always said that Dad never listened, Dad always said that Mum never saw things his way - well no! they didn't. Mum would have done better leaving notes for Dad

any fucker ... i answered your question in my post ? was it not a valid resonse ? I dont believe he is an all round twat (although may suffer from some twattish tendancies ) I am not a non per son . he supports me in what/ need want to do .

Do you think its a defense mechanism? He doesn't want to argue so won't engage? You really should feel valued in your relationship. Talk about it with him, make a plan together to address each time he does it. Agree on a gentle non confrontational way to let him know he is doing it. You need to sort it one way or the other. If he really doesn't realise then it can be worked on, probably needs loads of work btw. If he is plain nasty then that needs dealt with too.

"cogito are you stating everyones relationships are 100% perfect ? "

No. I'm saying you either have to take someone 100% as they are and love them warts and all, or you have to reject them. It's a reality check. If they are mostly great but the 'wart' happens to be something that makes you desperately unhappy, you are signing up for an unhappy life if you stick around. If you go into a relationship hoping they're going to magically change, you're likely to be seriously disappointed.

Someone doesn't have to be a bad person to be the wrong person

I think that idea if touching his arm is a good one. It's a gentle reminder to listen to you.
However from the example you give, I would say that he is using this system if repeating things back when he doesn't know the answer. Just repeating like this us actually taught as a good way to show person you understood them and care.
I'm wondering if he isn't using when he doesn't know the answer and/or changes the subject (fir the same reason).
Is he doing that when he is the one to start the conversation on an ports my subject he has chosen?
And In Which way is the dyspraxia affecting him? Could there be a relation there too?
How was he when you had counselling together?

Tbh, this would be a case of LTB for me neither. But you need to understand the whys to 1- be able to help him change and 2- learn to accept what can't be changed.

cogito I understand where you are coming from but this man has already proven repeatedly how much effort he is ready to do to change. A twat wouldn't do that. Not the 'wrong' person. Only a living and caring person would.

I think the OP is the one with the right attitude there.

He used to talk to you but now he doesn't. When did it change? Could there be OW?

Treesap I could have written this post myself. I have a partner who is exactly the same and I too get very frustrated at times. I have however come to accept that he is never likely to enjoy chit chat with me (or anyone else for that matter) as it is just not in his nature. I like to talk a lot but I have a wide range of friends with whom I do my chatting and I feel I get this need met through them. Don't get me wrong I would love nothing better than proper chats with my partner but I cannot change him so I had better accept him or leave and as I do not intend to throw away an otherwise good relationship then I have to accept.

We found the books by Harville Hendrix very helpful and even did some Imago therapy which gave us some tools to work with. This helped but since we have had kids we have fallen back into some unhealthy patterns again but I know there is the possibility of change if we are committed to working on it.

I admire your desire to keep your family together and your desire to both try to make your relationship work. My partner and I are both from dysfunctional backgrounds and it is far easier for me to leave situations than to stay and work with them. That said if there really was no hope I would have to leave for my sake and that of my children.

Take a look at Haville's book 'keeping the love you find' which helped me to identify why I chose my partner and how I can get out of trying to get him to fix me. It will make sense when you read it. Good luck.

"this man has already proven repeatedly how much effort he is ready to do to change"

But he has failed. It's a shame that he can't achieve something that appears relatively simple but he clearly can't and the OP is suffering as a result. No-one is perfect and some bad habits can be overlooked in a partner with no more than a bit of teeth-gritting. But anyone who has been in a relationship with someone who is a great person apart from one seriously fatal flaw (booze, anger, gambling, jealousy) that fails to be corrected, no matter how much effort they claim to be making, knows that it is a thankless and miserable job.

I'm genuinely not saying 'LTB', but I think the OP should assume that this character trait is not going to go away.

The point I find strange and rather telling in all this is that he used to talk with you, and you used to have lovely conversations together. So he doesn't have problems with communication, it's just that he's changed for some reason. I'd be trying to pinpoint when this started to happen and look for some kind of underlying trigger. I hesitate to say OW, but something has happened to turn him into this robotic person. it would drive me bonkers tbh, because, for me and Dh, our marriage thrives on talking and communicating. How else can a couple share their thoughts and concerns?