My dad knocked my son to the ground

[grizedale]

Need advice pls. We were in the park with my parents and ds and dd were squabbling. Ds kicked dd (she was also kicking, they are 6 & 7). DH wasn't with us, he was at home. I was sorting it out and my Dad overheard and came up. He saw ds kick dd and grabbed his arm, saying' If you kick someone, someone else will kick you back harder'. Ds then laughed. So my Dad said to him again, 'If I kick you it'll really hurt.' Then Ds again laughed. My Dad had started to walk away but overheard and then flew at my son, knocking him to the ground with his shoulder. I said, too late, 'Don't push him over!'. My Dad went off and my son was ok, just looked a bit shocked. My parents later went home and now I don't know how to say to my Dad that this behaviour is not on. I am so upset. My son seems fine but I don't want it to happen again. It has happened once before, when ds was about 3 and squabbling with dd again. Dh, again wasn't there. My Dad grabbed ds roughly by the arm and I, again, said not to do it but he doesn't ever say sorry or that he shouldn't have done it. My Mum just doesn't say anything. We've only just started to communicate better and things were going well but now this has happened. I just don't want to see my parents now which isn't going to help rectify the situation. Any advice would be welcome.

Your dad is bang out of order and a bully.

Sorry Op but if that was my dad he would not be seeing my children again.

You say it by either severing all contact, now, or by ringing 101.

This is deeply wrong on many levels. You know that. I am very sorry your father has put you in this horrible position, but you cannot allow him to continue seeing yoru grandson.

This was obviously deliberate, in which case your dad does not see your DS again.

And I'm wondering if your mum isn't petrified of him, for similar reasons.

"I appreciate that you were trying to teach DS that violence is wrong. However using violence to prove that point is a piss-poor way of doing it. If you can't contain your temper around my child I will not be facilitating any further contact"

was it deliberate? You said your dad knocked him to the ground with his shoulder, so was it more that he barged up to him and accidentally knocked into him, or was it a deliberate shove?

But either way, he hurt your ds and just walked off, and has grabbed him roughly in the past. I would be giving him a very wide berth from now on - I find the idea of an adult 'squaring up' to a young child repulsive.

Was he like this with you as you were growing up?
Most people I know of my parents generation (and plenty in my own) believe in physical punishment, it was acceptable and seen as good discipline.

Nowadays, it's not ok.

I think at the moment it's a bit dramatic to go no contact, but I would suggest sitting down with both your parents and pointing out that you are bringing up your children your way. Spell out in no uncertain terms that your dad being physical (in a punishment way) is not on, and if it happens again, you will have to take steps to protect your children.

Ok his method was wrong however your Ds was wrong in laughing and not doing as he was told. When he came over and said to Ds what he was doing was wrong I would have put one child either side of me and taken them home . OR I would have told Ds after he laughed a second time that he was well out of order.

"We've only just started to communicate better and things were going well but now this has happened".

I was wondering what the background to that above comment is; do you feel that your parents have never listened at all to you?. How do you think this can be actually recified?.

Does your DH know about this?.

I would keep your children well away from your parents as of now and after the last incident you likely thought that this must not happen again. Two such incidents now that your son has been on the receiving end of is actually two too many, there must not be a third time.

ok yeah, maybe full NC is a bit much. But it's on the edge. She asked her father not to do it again after the first incident. He ignored her and her son ended up knocked to the ground.

it was more acceptable in the past to have limited physical sanction, but that's not really the case now and more than anythign else, the OP has asked him not to do this.

He's ignoring her stated wishes and so far he's doing it only when her DH is not around (is that coincidence or is it not?) and he is 'disciplining' the boy in a way that is not acceptable now, having been asked not to.

I do think it's pretty bad behaviour. Given that the OP cannot trust him to respect your wishes, I'm afraid that I can't see any way of handlign this other than a very very clear message to him "if you do this again then you will not see your grandchildren again" and a break of some months before seeing them again.

What he did was wrong. Unfortunately it looks like your dad doesn't have the correct education or temperament to deal with this sort of behaviour.

Before you go NC I would give him an olive branch to explain what he thought he was doing and gauge his reaction to see if he is remorseful and understands why you are so upset.

As someone said you would be quite within your rights to call the police but these things are never black and white and it could mean the end for all of the relationships between you/grandparents/your mum etc

This was in a public park? I hope you don't ever leave your dc with their grandparents to babysit.

Has your dad always had a problem with anger management? Did he dish out this type of punishment when you were a child? It sounds from your reaction as if you and your mum are both afraid to stand up to him. I must say, if that had happened to one of my dc, my reaction would have been much more explosive than yours!

His behaviour is abusive. You either need to confront him about how unacceptable it is, and get him to take steps to alter it, or explain that your dc will no longer be seeing him.

I wouldn't find it a huge deal, but I know I'm out of step with the modern world in this.

I'd have a quiet word, remind your DF that your DCs are very young and that being rough with them isn't fair.

Yes your DS shouldn't laugh, but modern DCs really don't have any idea what being cheeky is at 6/7 (I'm not quite sure we did either, but we were probably better at not being).

Your DF will probably rant and mutter, mine would, but it has to be said.

My DDs are 16&13, they are the last generation who take a reasonably balanced view of GFs and parents hitting them occasionally. They understand my DDad, me and DH come from a different world. (DHs parents even more so as they were 39/56 when he was born. DFIL was older than my grandfather).

Today, for better (or worse and I sometimes wonder) any faintly physical punishment is so frowned on his grandfather just has to learn not to do it.

"You either need to confront him about how unacceptable it is, and get him to take steps to alter it, or explain that your dc will no longer be seeing him".

The problem here is that getting him to take steps to alter behaviour is impossible to do particularly if he is abusive. Has this man actually accepted any responsibility at all for his actions let alone apologise to you for same?.

Your dad is an abusive bully who needs to start acting like an adult.

You don't get to do what he did to a 7 year old regardless of what they have done.

How on earth do people think they can teach kids that physical violence is wrong by doing exactly that to them?

If they can't behave when they see the children your parents must not see the children.

Your father's behaviour is totally unacceptable. Your job as a parent is to protect and parent your children. Unless you can swear it will never happen again - and I don't see how you can when your father has form for battering a 3 year old FFS - you have to stop them seeing the children for their own safety.

Was it deliberate? . I'm having a hard time picturing a full grown adult pushing a 6 year old over with their shoulder, except in a kind of freak accident way. unless your Dad's extremely short

Surely your boy was laughing out of a sort of embarrassed disbelief that an adult would threaten to kick him. A seven year old is not going to know how to react to that situation. It's horrible that only your DS got told off as well, when it sounds like six of one, half a dozen of the other.

You were sorting it out. Your dad interfered and undermined your parenting.

He took it all out on one child when it was 6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other.

He then got physically violent knocking your child over deliberately.

You need to lay it on the line.

1 he does not interfere.
2 he does not admonish one child over the other.
3 he never ever physically assaults your child again.

If he does these then he has zero access to your children.

As he has already harmed your child and ignored you telling him not to you may want to already consider the zero access as he clearly does not respect what you say about your own children.

Why does it make any difference whether your DH is there or not?

They are your children to discipline, and it's your father to tell this kind o behaviour is not accecptable.

How does a fully grown man knock over a 6 year old boy with his shoulder? I just can't picture it at all. Is that correct, OP?

they are the last generation who take a reasonably balanced view of GFs and parents hitting them occasionally.

I surely can't be the only one to find this statement astonishingly Dickensian, Elephants?

FIL was a violent bully to DP when younger.
One time we were staying and DD (who is ASD btw) was in an adjacent room with FIL.
We heard him shout at her and a smacking noise.
Went in, shocked and asked why he hit her.
He denied it with a bare faced lie.
DC haven't been allowed to stay with him alone (even with MIL since she backs him up all the time even though he bullies her too).
They haven't asked why DC don't get to stay over anymore but I guess they know.
OPs dad sounds like a similar bully - don't trust DC with him.

Children of that age (of any age!) can be incredibly frustrating, and push us all to our limits. But this is typical / ordinary behaviour; this is how children learn what is acceptable punishment and what isn't, how to get on with other people, and about boundaries in general.

How your father behaved is not typical or ordinary. It is completely unacceptable. You and your Dh need to sit down and discuss this and work out what will happen next. I also think you need to talk to your DS. Firstly reassuring him that your father's actions were completely wrong, and that you are very upset about it, and perhaps ask him how he feels about seeing his grandfather again. It is very tempting to cut off all contact (that would be my first reaction I think) but I wonder how that would impact on him long term, would he possibly end up with feelings of guilt that the relationship had broken down? Not that it would be in any way his fault, of course, but he may end up internalising such feelings without you or anyone else realising.

If you do wish to maintain some kind of relationship, I would consider very short visits, e.g half an hour at a time, and take it very slowly and carefully. That would be after explaining to him that his behaviour was absolutely appalling. There is also your mother to consider in all this - I obviously don't know what your relationship is like with her, but you may consider it wrong that she should miss out on time with her grandchildren because of him, so they could have additional time separately with her.

behaviour not punishment in first paragraph... although I guess it could also be the latter

I think it is interesting that your father doesn't abuse your children when your DH is there.

I would not be allowing contact for quite a long time.

DS once told me FIL had kicked him. It was all denied. I made it clear I was and sent DH to get DS immediately. MIL once said she stopped FIL going for DS. They are older now and well able to tell me anything. If they touch my kids that is it as far as I am concerned but I am not worried they will.