Talk me out of temporarily stopping contact between DD and her dad

[Hrrrm]

I am wondering if it might be best to stop contact between DD (5) and her dad for a while, or at least severely limit it.

He has been up and down for several years with regular episodes that lead to big fights about his treatment of DD.

Recently, he told her she wasn't allowed to draw pictures for me at his house. It's been pretty obvious for a while that she makes pictures to process stuff - eg when there's a lot going on for her she makes lots of pictures, when something nice happens she draws a picture about it etc. So obviously when she thinks about someone, she makes a picture for them. She was really upset about the pictures ban. I talked to him about it to show him how it works for DD. A couple of days later he had a cosy chat with her about 'why did you tell mummy you're not allowed to make pictures'. Because you said so, duh. He also told her she didn't need to be upset about it. To me this seems like manipulation.

Also fairly recently (past 2 months or so), DD has been finding it difficult to go to sleep because of nightmares. I have tweaked bedtime routines, and eventually got her a new light and we changed her room around for a new perspective. She proudly showed all of this to her dad and I explained my thinking about it. He understands bedtime is difficult for her. (He mentions it occasionally in an accusatory 'what do you do to her' kind of way).

The nightmares first started when DD watched a particular film with her dad (children's film but with scary bits) - her nightmares are often (but not always) about a particular character from this film. I talked to him about this when I noticed that this character kept popping up.

They didn't watch the film for a while. Yesterday DD had a nightmare about the character again, turns out her dad let her watch the film again. His reason: they were both poorly.

I am so angry about him ruining the effort I put into making DD happy and healthy. It feels as if he doesn't actually care about her emotional well being and is beginning to manipulate her.

I know if I talk to him about this he will get angry and defensive and focus on something he thinks I've done wrong.

The other day he was 'concerned' because when he picked DD up I was doing work on my laptop on the sofa and she was snuggled up to me listening to a story on headphones. Apparently it worried him because it could indicate that I expect her to be quiet and stay out of the way all afternoon every day (I told him once that this is what my mum did when I was a child). It happened twice in the past month because of deadlines. It just feels like a straw man that he uses to divert attention from his fuckups.

So WIBU to limit contact for a bit? Not a long time. He has some health issues at the moment that are causing him stress, busy job etc. DD asks to see him all the time.

How are you hoping it will help exactly?

yabu

she asks to see him....its her right to.also,your fears and worries are meant to be taken as valid,and HIS you dismiss? sounds like you are both trying to score one over each other. your poor dd stuck in the middle.

you arent his doctor. his health isuues are his to deal with,you dont stop contact because you personally feel he's incapable

is it court ordered? i'm thinking not.....but a judge would give you a hard tme for stopping contact over this. you could,at a push,reduce overnights. maybe. if its what they both agree to,but imo,you are wrong to as its not all up to you

Telling her she can't draw pictures for you at his house is petty and ridiculous , but probably not enough to stop contact over. Regarding the children's film , I used to have nightmares about big bird off seseme street. They do have nightmares at this age and possibly it's best not to make too big a deal out of them.

It sounds like there's a lot of tension between you both still. Did you have a particular bad split ? If he makes daft comments about her bedtime routine or headphones , it's probably best to have her ready at the door for him instead of having him in the house.

He sounds like a prize berk, most especially about schooling her in not telling Mummy stuff. But that's not enough to stop contact by a very long way. Contact with her father is purely for her benefit, and stopping it is not an appropriate way to punish him for being a berk unfortunately

Hmm, I suppose I did ask to be talked out of it...

I know what he's doing is hardly the equivalent of beating her up or starving her, but it's still not nice for her.

Yes, lots of tension obviously with the occasional fun bit.

"The other day he was 'concerned' because when he picked DD up I was doing work on my laptop on the sofa and she was snuggled up to me listening to a story on headphones."

This sounds to me like he's accustomed to letting himself in. If that's the case, you should put a stop to that right away.

No, he comes in while DD is putting shoes on (I open the door. DD runs away usually.) Having her ready to go would probably be better.

he's fucking this up left right and centre. did he emotionally abuse you too?

it's not rocket science to NOT watch a film if it scares her, it's out and out mean to tell her she can't draw pictures, and taking her to task about talking to you is unacceptable.

contact is for the benefit of the child. she's not benefitting.

she will ask to see him, she's 5 and he's manipulating her, making her try to perform for his approval.

your dd can't manage him! you can't manage him. you strugggle with boundaries, what chance does she have.

he sounds like he's actually getting a thrill out of hurting and upsetting her. probably to get to and hurt you.

first, remove the ease with which he accesses your home.

second do what you can to subtly limit her exposure to him. make sure that he knows clearly that he is not to show her that film again.

third, stop allowingg him the space to comment on your life. he is out of it, and you don't owe him a thing.

protect your little one, please

tell him to wait outside. he doesn't get to come into your home.

this is a territorial thing. by allowing him in, he's metaphorically pissing all over your home to claim the right to throw his oar about.

open the door, 'she'll be out in a minute, wait here' and close the door.

Does he have a history of domestic violence and emotional abuse?

No dv, but quite a lot of what I'd say is emotional abuse.

I didn't want that kind of relationship where I push DD out of the door, but it will probably have to be like that.

He's telling me the film wasn't scary and he and DD watched it together and kept a 'dialogue'. He's also highlighted they haven't watched anything for a while and has now agreed not to watch this particular film with her. He'll probably just replace it with another scary film then because I am obviously not listing a whole range of films I deem unsuitable for DD, therefore I can't complain about them in the future.

Maybe he's trying to help her to manage whatever it is she is scared of by exposing her to something scary in a controlled environment where he is there to talk about it with her. You sound really quite controlling.

you're not pushing her out the door! you're keeping HIM out of your home because he abuses the privelege.

she's 5. she doesn't need to watch a film that scares her ffs.

But he leaves her alone with her emotions. According to him, DD wasn't scared. According to her, he covered her eyes with his hand. I don't think scary films are a way of curing nightmares, and apart from that, he would never think that far ahead. While nightmares are normal and a developmental stage, she has nightmares specifically about this film. Why make things more difficult for her?
And you are damn right, when it comes to damaging my daughter, I do my best to control the situation.

I can't even begin to describe how messed up his justifications are. He is incapable of taking responsibility for anything. At the moment he tends to blame DD for misunderstanding and me for overreacting.

How would he react if you cut contact?

He would probably get quite angry and possibly go to court, that's what he usually hints at. That's why I haven't put my foot down in the past couple of years, but it's all getting a bit too much now.

You're getting your info from a small child and basing decisions that could affect her relationship with her father on nothing more than her word. So he parents differently to you. Do you run every film you want her to watch by him in case he didn't agree with it? Would you be this heavy handed if he were the resident parent? Just because you are the rp it doesn't mean your word is law.

No I don't think it would be wise to stop contact. A lot of children suffer from nightmares. I did but nobody was blamed for it. It was a bit silly of him to let her watch the film when he knew it frightened her. But on the other hand he maybe thought it could help especially as she had already seen the film. I don't think he has done anything that would merit stopping contact.

Definitely stop allowing him into the house. And start ignoring anything he says, as though he's an annooying insect. Basically his behaviour is about punishing you for leaving him, so the less you react to him, the better the chance of him getting bored. It's OK to tell DD that he's being silly, as well. If he steps up his attempts to manipulate and distress her, you can undermine him nd cut or reduce contact. If he gets bored, gives up and goes away - result!

Of course my word is not the law, and I know full well that the court would not care about what films DD watches. But I don't want my DD to be treated this way.

I trust my DD a hell of a lot more than I trust him. He keeps a lot of secrets. He's usually happy to tell me about what DD did at his house, but he hadn't told me she'd watched the film. This makes me think he knew it wasn't in DD's best interest.

trust your instincts on this. he was an arse to you, he's STILL being an arse, but by hurting her to hurt you.

Ffs, the OP is not controlling! She is trying to protect her young child from a manipulative man who has been emotionally abusive to her in the past.

With men like this, you have to behave as if you are controlling, because they push and push and push against any boundary you set, just to show that they can. And they can do it subtly, with behaviour that is just ambiguous enough to make their partner/ex-partner unsure of whether it is unacceptable or not. So you have to stubbornly stand firm while they try the same things over and over again like a toddler testing parental limits.

In all honesty, it is this sort of behaviour that keeps me (for the moment) in a marriage with a man I consider EA. At the moment I can call him on his behaviour towards DCs as it happens, show DCs where appropriate boundaries lie. I can't do that if I'm not there because we're separated.

OP, I understand where you're coming from and you have my sympathy.

Thank you Hissy and Buster.

Stubbornly standing firm - that is what I'm trying to do.

I will probably not cut contact completely as that would be difficult for DD, but I will have to do something. I have a stressful few months coming up job-wise, and if he continues like this, I really won't be able to focus because I will be worrying about DD.

It must be very difficult sending your DD off with him knowing that he seems to care more about pushing your buttons than her welfare.

From what I have read on MN, from a legal point of view I doubt there is enough in his behaviour to justify limiting your DD's contact with him. However I would definitely limit your own contact with him as much as possible and work at not showing you are annoyed by his behaviour. If he's not getting a reaction he may give up (or just move on to other tactics).

You could also think about starting to give your DD some skills of her own to limit the impact of his behaviour. For example, telling her that it is wrong for anyone, even her daddy, to suggest keeping secrets from you. That it is OK to speak up and tell him if something is making her upset. And that if her father behaves badly it is his choice to do so and not because of anything that she has done. Self-esteem building stuff so that she might become more robust against any guilt-inducing tactics on his part.