Feel irrationally upset by this... Am I being irrational?

[textingdisaster]

Hi

My h and I have problems in our relationship which we have had for a long time, but are still living together. Probably in no small part because we have 3 dc who are currently 8, 10 and 12.

I suppose the things I find the hardest are h's sometimes rudeness towards me, his lack of affection and the fact that we are unable to discuss things which matter to me (like making plans for the future which would make me feel more secure etc...).

I posted a while ago about the fact that he had shown a woman he does a lot of work for (he does renovations) how to make a particular soup. The link to this thread is here.

There is another woman he has done a lot of work for over the years and in the past I have been jealous of their banter filled relationship (plus she is very gushy and kind of over the top).

What happened today was that he needed the car and we were discussing this, when it transpires that he was going to work at the second woman's house today (let's call her a). I then asked why he needed the car as she lives just up the road. He was about to make some crack about how he needed the car so that he could take her out so I jumped the gun and said I hoped she was warming the bed up. Sounds like a stupid thing to say I know but I find it impossible to express my real feelings (of insecurity and of needing affection) with him so it sometimes comes out in this way. He then said that she had been to the chemist to get him some deep heat patches for his knee which is hurting.

And rightly or wrongly this is what I am really upset about. He must have been working there on and off over the past few days (he never tells me the ins and outs of what he has been doing that's normal I know), they must have discussed his knee and she must have trundled off to the chemist to get these things for him. I don't know why but I feel oddly blindsided by this. I asked him yesterday to give me the prescription for his painkillers and said I would take it to the chemist but in the meantime she has been running errands for him.

I suppose I have been trying very hard to do all the right things. Remain positive, sort my own life (which involves trying to find work) out, look after the kids, go food shopping, make food for us all to eat, sort the kitchen out as we have had mice, try to get past the times when h is rude. All the while though I kind of bury my need for love and care.

So this morning I have been in tears about this deep heat patch incident . Am I strange? Does this sound pathetic??

I suppose it feels as if h cares more about these two women - one who he goes and makes soup with, the other who lovingly gets him deep heat patches from the chemist, than he does about me whom he never touches and rarely expresses any affection towards.

Sounds very odd that the woman would purposefully go out to buy the patches. Different if she already had them in the cupboard and gave them to him.

I think your DH needs to put as much effort into your relationship as he does with these other women.

I think this one issue in isolation would be a weird thing to get upset about, but the fact is that it is part of a wider pattern of behaviour that side lines you, so I can understand why you're upset.

There is nothing wrong - per se - with someone popping out to get a friend some heat patches if they know they are in pain, and especially when that person is doing work for them in the house. Even if you are paying for the work, it's just a nice thing to do.

The problem arises when a partner has a close, caring relationship with other women, whilst being rude and cold towards his own wife. It's normal for a spouse to run errands for their partner - in both directions obviously. It's not normal for a partner to turn to someone outside the marriage to run personal errands whilst blindsiding their spouse.

It's painful because you can see that the caring, lovely side of your spouse does exist - just not for you.

No-one should have to live in a loveless marriage like this. I don't think it's a great example to be setting for your children either.

Have you tried discussing this with him in a non confrontational manner, and making it clear that you can't go on as things are?

Would you be able to leave if you knew nothing would ever change? Or are you resigned to your lot?

" rudeness towards me, his lack of affection and the fact that we are unable to discuss things which matter to me "

This is the problem and everything else rather stems from that. If he was more respectful, more affectionate and took you more seriously you probably wouldn't be feeling quite so twitchy about his friendly contact with ... if I'm reading it right... customers. As it stands, you're left feeling suspicious and out in the cold and - worse - you feel obliged to bury all of this unhappiness because you have DCs.

It crystallises why 'staying together for the DCs' and sacrificing your own needs is such a crappy decision a lot of the time. They must see the way you interact with each other.

Thank you. I know, not being able to communicate and get the reassurance I need makes it all more difficult than it needs to be. Can't shake the feeling that h could easily take me or leave me.

We went to counselling over 2 years ago but he stopped going after more or less 5 sessions. Don't know that to do other than continue with my finding work and becoming more independent plans.

I sometimes think I could leave. At other times it feels like the most preposterous thing I could do. I would need h to do something really awful to justify it.

A lot of people end up in that trap of needing something 'really awful' to happen. The reason it's a trap is that the definition of 'really awful' gets a little higher each time there's a crisis. It's never quite bad enough to end, years roll on, and your confidence and self-esteem vanish. Eventually, he actually does confess to having affairs with two of his customers (or whatever) and you're left blind-sided and totally unprepared.

What exactly would be preposterous about being independent from your husband? In a list of pros and cons, what would be the top three cons holding you back from calling time?

Your H is already behaving awfully and likes other women running around or fawning after him. Boundaries are being completely disregarded here by him and these women whom he has seen. Apart from the woman whom he made soup with why on earth did this other woman see fit to buy him deep heat patches?.

I would consider now seeking legal advice so you know where you stand in terms of finances etc.

What do you get out of this relationship now?. Staying for the children now if that is your main motivation here will be likely a decision you will come to deeply regret ever making.

Do you want your children to grow up thinking that this example of a marriage you're both showing them is their "norm"?. Your children likely know and see more than you realise; they see that their dad is treating their mum very badly.

And now he has popped back home and is being all arsey / cold with me (probably because I was like that for a bit earlier due to the deep heat incident - we're talking for minutes though). What's that about ??

I don't know. I cannot tell what is what anymore!

Preposterour things (for me as things stand at present):

1. Being apart from dc up to half of the time.
2. Dc possibly staying in family home during their time with her - would feel very excluded.
3. Ds (almost 13) possibly deciding to live permanently with her depending on h's location.

There are more - not least the acrimony and adversarial nature of the whole thing and possibly making the wrong decision.

Are boundaries really being disregarded attila? This is what I can't decide. Maybe it is just friendliness?

The main boundary being disregarded is the one where he thinks it's OK to treat you rudely, without affection and with contempt. Whatever else is going on, those are bad enough.

Why would the DC stay in the family home in the event of a divorce? Why would DS automatically want to live with Dad? Would your husband want full time responsibility for a child?

Divorce is not necessarily adversarial. Couples are encouraged to mediate outside of court and reach mutually agreed compromises on things like assets and access to children. 'Acrimony' seems to be what you are living with anyway.

Meant with him sorry. Freudian slip! Was thinking this morning how awful it would be if I moved out and deep heat woman moved in to take my place .

H would be very protective of what he considers to be "his" - having already been through one divorce where he lost his main home.

Ds is very very wedded to living in this house.

It's very difficult to know if my feelings are valid or not.

I suppose the other things that really scare me about divorce are:
The grief/sadness that we would all have to go through - not being there to take care of my dc at all times (I suppose I have already said that! ) - the possibility that I might be really depressed after it (have a tendency towards depression anyway).

Re your comment:-

"I suppose the other things that really scare me about divorce are:
The grief/sadness that we would all have to go through - not being there to take care of my dc at all times (I suppose I have already said that! ) - the possibility that I might be really depressed after it (have a tendency towards depression anyway)".

Feel the fear and do it anyway. I think you would find a weight that you have been carrying around because of him and his behaviours (and he is likely to be the root cause of your current depressed state) much more if not completely lifted.

This reads like a completely miserable marriage in which your H treats you with contempt.

And what Cogito wrote earlier re boundaries being disregarded.

This is also not a role model of a marriage you would want your DC to potentially emulate as adults either. What do you think they are actually learning about relationships here?.

How much awful does he have to get, he is disrespecting you with not one but two women and you are accepting it, a person only treats you like shit if they are allowed to get away with it, if there are no boundaries then there's no security, in fact, there's really no relationship.

Thanks for your thoughts. I think the problem is that you quite quickly get used to your normality even though you know that it's not right. The problem is also that I have no idea how my husband feels either about me or about our relationship.

And now I am thinking that the deep hear lady might lovingly have given him lunch as he has been working there today .

All the indicators would seem to be that I does not love me or care about but in that case why doesn't he take steps to end the relationship ?

deep heat

Because he is comfortable in the knowledge that he can pretty much do as he pleases so why bother leaving - it's easy as it is.

"All the indicators would seem to be that I does not love me or care about but in that case why doesn't he take steps to end the relationship confused?"

He's either happy enough with the arrangement or - like you - he's not unhappy enough to end it. You only really find out which by having a calm & honest 'where do you see this relationship going?' type discussion. If you can't have that discussion or he gets defensive or even goes on the attack rather than talk about it, then you have to assume that he is happy with the status quo and that he gets enough out of it to stick around.

Some partners - and I don't have enough information to say this specifically applies to you - like to keep the other party feeling insecure and doubting as it makes them easier to control and eager to please at the same time.

If you can't have that discussion or he gets defensive or even goes on the attack rather than talk about it, then you have to assume that he is happy with the status quo and that he gets enough out of it to stick around.*

This would be h. Why do some people do that and is it a "silent man" thing - expect you to know things without talking or behaving in an affectionate / reassuring manner? As if by osmosis.

Sorry 1st paragraph was meant to be in bold.

Sorry to be desperate but am bumping my thread for more possible opinions / chat. Am having a bad, hopeless feeling kind of day ruminating all of this in my head and have a horrible feeling in the pit of my stomach .

Well from his POV splitting up probably means taking on more responsibility for DC, running his own home etc - why would he bother when he has you to do it all for him, and meanwhile he can be off having fun with some of his female customers?

At the very least he's crossing loads of boundaries with these women, and in the process making you feel insecure so that you are less likely to making sweeping changes to your life, like kicking him out.

What would be your ideal scenario 're DC and house etc, if you were to split up? Could you see a solicitor for a one-off appointment for some advice on whether your hopes would be realistic?

Is he crossing boundaries? I seem to be repeating myself, apologies. I suppose it is the not being able to talk to him about it which means that I imagine a load of stuff that may or may not be true.

My ideal scenario would be for the house to be sold and us both to have smaller places relatively close to each other (but not so close that I would have to walk past where he lived), an amicable split where we were able to discuss the kids, and the kids were happy about the situation and able to spend time with both of us. Oh and me never feeling jealous or sad. It seems nigh on impossible. It feels like jumping off a cliff would be easier. Even better than that would be for our relationship to improve but I don't think it will as he is too unwilling to talk and or compromise. After all if someone never shows you any affection it has to mean something? ?