Huge argument with dh, same old things - am I too critical?

[CocktailQueen]

Dh took DS to football today. He started playing for ateam last year - he's 7 - and loves it. Dh is vv competitive and shouts a lot from the sidelines - always encouraging things, never anything nasty or critical - thoug he can be critical of coaches and quite tactless in front of other parents. Today one of the dads was refereeing and dh shouted at him to do something about a bad challenge - one of the players on the other team had hacked down three of our players, our ref ignored it. The ref shouted at dh to shut up. Apparently the kids and other dads agreed with dh.

Then dh told DS not to tell me about the incident as he knew how he'd react. I was cross about this. Dh also said at lunch that the coach was useless and I as cross about that because it was in front of DS and it's totally inappropriate.

Anyway, after lunch - sorry this is so long - I had a word with dh about not shouting so much, and asked if the ref had said anything to him, and asked him not to tell DS not to say things to me, and he went mad, saying all I do is criticise him, that is always take other people's side over his and that he was sick of it. I was taken aback. And said, well, if I'm that horrible to live with and so critical then go, just leave.

So he went all hurt and vanished to our room. Tried to talk to him and he just won't back down, won't concede that I may have a point, just says that I can take DS to football from now on, blah blah. He says that's just the way he is and he's not going to change. He says he doesn't care what other people think, he was protecting the kids on our team.

Don't know where to go from here. I don't like taking DS to football with dh as dh shouts too much, gets too involved, thinks DS is brilliant. I don't know.

What should I do?

Oh dear, don't want to read and run, but it is hard to advise as your DH sounds like the kind of macho wanker I would run a mile from. But you married him, so he must have good points.

Shouting from the sidelines at children's football matches is cringing, crass, inappropriate, wrong, embarrassing and stupid. I would agree with your DH that he shouldn't take his child to play football if he cannot behave himself.

I would take DS myself and leave DH at home.

"The ref shouted at dh to shut up. Apparently the kids and other dads agreed with dh".

Did DH shut up?. Your DH is not a referee and thus has no right at all to be challenging decisions. As for the others, well its your DH saying that to make himself feel better. Its people like your DH who make referees and coaches quit the Saturday and Sunday morning football games. Its a challenging role which is not helped at all by people like your DH mouthing off. In the eyes of this man, it’s everyone else’s fault if his son doesn’t succeed.

This bad behaviour is also why your DH should now be banned from attending football games with his son. Take your son instead and leave your DH at home. Ignore your DH and carry on around him, do not pander to him. Him telling you to leave is also very telling indeed of bigger problems.

Poor behaviour at grass roots level from parents on the sidelines is a big problem anyway.

Your son likely feels pretty much embarrassed by his Dad's bad behaviour. I am sorry that your DHs football dreams amounted to nothing (this is partly why such men behave like this, they want to live their failed football dream vicariously through their children) but your DH is not covering himself in glory here; anything but. He is fortunate that he has not been banned from the touchline. Infact I hope he has been now.

I think the problems with your DH go far beyond his poor behaviour on the football field to be honest with you, I think you need to consider why you are with such a entitled whiner at all who is not also taking any responsibility for his actions. Would you want your son to grow up to be just like his Dad?.

What do you get out of this relationship now?.

If it was just you and your DH (i.e. no children) would you have already left him?.

If that answer is yes, I would suggest that you do not stay for the sake of the children; they after all learn about relationships from the two of you and it is down to you to teach them positive lessons about relationships.

Attila - it was me who told dh to leave if he felt that strongly, not dh.

Most of the parents shout from the sidelines at our club - but all good stuff, and positive things for the opposition, not just our side! So I think Atilla is a little harsh. In some ways it would be easier if they banned all shouting though, then you'd know where you stood. Why is it acceptable to shout in football but not in any other sport??

If it was just me and Dh, no kids, I would have left him, I think. But the dc adore him and he is generally a good dad.

Your DH needs to put up or shut up ie. train as a coach or ref.

I've said he should do that, Branching...

It seems like the argument escalated pretty quickly from a conversation about behaviour at a football game to a conversation about splitting up. I'm sure there's a lot more going on OP than just a bit of yelling at sporting events and minor disagreements.

Do you feel like you have no way to have a constructive discussion about parenting with him? Would some joint counselling about conflict resolution approaches maybe help?

DS really loves football and is good. He likes his team and they're a good crows. He plays three times a week. Dh helps to coach his team sometimes. Dh also doesn't shout or get involved at coaching sessions or anything else. Don't think asking DS to give up something he loves is a good solution.

You say that without kids you would have left him already, why?

You cannot seriously walk out on a marriage because your dh shouts at the ref! He is passionate about his interests and demonstrative with it.

I think him saying your critical, then your response, telling him to leave was harsh! And by god he better not upset you anymore, otherwise you'll be telling him to leave. There's a name for that sort of behaviour on here but I can't remember what it is.

Quite, if you actually read the thread you will see that the OP has considered leaving before so there are clearly other issues.

Yes I'm afraid I believe your reaction was quite over the top. You have a few cross words and you basically tell him to leave the family?

I'm a bit taken aback by that. Him shouting at a ref to sort himself out is not a "threat to end the marriage" offence. Nor is it to say in front of DS that the coach is crap. Lord, can't we say anything any more?!

I don't see why this particular incident is so monstrous, tbh. He didn't swear or threaten the Ref, he's not nasty on the sidelines, you said so yourself.

And tbh, I can see why he told your DS not to say anything if your reaction is "leave then". I don't agree with spouses saying "Don't tell Mum" but I wouldn't have told you either if I suspected that would be the reaction.

This does seem like an over reaction on your part unless there's much more to the story.

I also think that as you aren't at the football games, you need to take a step back. His behaviour at an outside event is just that- HIS behaviour. You cannot force him to behave a certain way. He must also accept the consequences eg other parents withdrawing from him or ref asking him not to attend the match.

Dh and I have both had to learn at times that the other ones behaviour is not a reflection on us. So he does things I find inappropriate and vice versa but we both no longer take it personally.

Do you think if your DH stews on it for a couple of days he might see both sides of the argument?

"If it was just me and Dh, no kids, I would have left him, I think. But the dc adore him and he is generally a good dad".

The good dad comment is generally written when the woman has nothing at all positive to write about their man. The DC would adore their dad no matter what sort of parent he is.

You have also written about him at some length before now.

And his behaviour on the sidelines is appalling; people like coaches and referees leave their profession (these are after all people who have given up their time to teach children this game) because of men and women like your DH who mouth off unnecessarily on the sidelines. If he thinks he can do better then he should become a coach or referee himself. But he will not because he acts like the Big Man and enjoys the power it gives him.

He is setting a very poor example to your children and he should stay at home if he cannot refrain from insulting the referees and or coaches at football games.

He sounds like a thug of the worst kind. Parents are not supposed to shout abuse at referees, it's a horrible example to set his son.

He's likely to get banned from the touchline if he doesn't learn to keep his mouth shut - and that would make it more pleasant for everyone.

I think you're right on this occasion, but it's not this occasion that's the issue is it?

Quite clearly he feels got at and this is the latest incidence of that.

The question is, are you ever OTT and do you balance crisis with praise.

It's very easy to pick up on the negatives of a person and take for granted their positives.

If he's always a twunt that one thing, but if he occasionally does twunty things and feels like you only ever critisise then that's something you'll need to address.

Tbh, I know it sounds facile but I'd tread this the same way as I did when trying to get the balance right with my daughter, that means 6 positives for every negative.

His behaviour on the sidelines is not ok, neither I nor any of the other dads on my son's team do this. When we see other dads doing it we think they are dickheads. The kids also think they are knobs, I can guarantee your son is embarrassed by his dads behaviour.
Its also not ok he told your son not to tell on him to you.

If he's not put his hand up to be the coach or a match official then he doesn't get to bad mouth those who have, those are the rules.

Longtime lurker but I’m prompted to post because I feel that I can make a contribution.

I am a qualified rugby coach, and got into it because DS’s coach was so bad I thought that I should do something about it, (eg : other coach taking his son and other boys from his school away for separate coaching from the other kids).

Two strands to this. Firstly, was the referee a qualified referee? Was he a qualified coach? The absolute first thing that we are taught is player safety. There should be NO risks with this, at all levels from the micros up through the juniors to adults. I’ve seen referees permit high tackles to go unpunished, and after seeing a few of these I’ve also shouted “that was dangerous” from the touchline in the hope that the referee notices. I’m not a qualified ref, but have refereed friendlies, and have every sympathy for the man or woman in the middle. It’s a very difficult thing to do. So in one way I have sympathy for your DH in shouting about dangerous tackles (OK, I know its football, but the principle is the same.)

Firstly and a half point: There’s nothing wrong with shouting at kids matches generally. It all depends what’s being shouted. If its general stuff like “well played” or “watch that player on the left” or even a general “that was offside” that’s ok and its part and parcel of the overall fun. Kids like to get the support. If it’s tactical shouting like “Freddie, don’t stand back there move upfield ” this might be contrary to what the coach originally told Freddie and the team to do. The kids are quite right to ignore it.

So your DH is not wrong about shouting, or even shouting at the ref in itself. If the ref shouted at your DH to shut up, it seems to me that he was an inexperienced ref and not in control of the game. That can be very dangerous and on the face of what you’ve said I’d be worried about my son’s safety if he was playing. I’ve seen refs deal with truculent parents, and believe me, telling a parent to shut up is not the way.

However, the more important strand is that your DH told your son not to say anything to you. If one of my kids had gone home and said that ‘dad shouted at the ref because he was worried about my safety, and the ref told him to shut up’ I’d expect my partner to at least try to find out what happened and if there was likely to be a problem with safety in the future. I’d not expect to be criticised for shouting, nor told afterwards that I shouldn’t shout. Might I respectfully suggest that, rightly or wrongly, he does feel that you take any incident to criticise him, even if he feels he’s acting in the best interests of your children. That appears to be a problem in your attitude to him.

Similarly, having tried to protect your children, you’ve told him to leave. I’m not one to agree with the mumsnet vipers that the solution for any problem on the relationship boards is LTB, but if I were asked to come to an opinion, in this case I think it’s appropriate. From the way you’ve described things, it seems that this is a man who is near the end of his tether, and would be happier being able to parent his kids without being told what to do by someone who wasn’t there and doesn’t take account of the actual circumstances.

"mumsnet vipers" . Showing your true colours there.

He doesn't sound like a man at the end of his tether. He sounds like a man who always has to be right.

"I’d expect my partner to at least try to find out what happened...". CocktailQueen was. He took that as criticism. And as for her telling him that he shouldn't ask the children to lie for him, surely that's just basic morals and she shouldn't even have to say that?

Attila is right. Shouting at the referee is not on. Neither is asking your DS to keep it a secret. I think by the fact you asked him to leave it you at the end of your tether CocktailQueen. What do you want to do now?

I texted the head coach's wife after to find out her take. She said don't worry too much, her dh will have a word with my dh and 'sort out the problem' - which sounds like there may be a problem with dh. Gah.

Thing is, dh is a good judge of football and cares about all the dc's safety but I think he may have gone about it the wrong way.

The ref today is inexperienced and IMO not very good with the dc but he is qualified. I haven't seen him reffing before. Will chat to mums at school on Monday.

I texted the head coach's wife after to find out her take. She said don't worry too much, her dh will have a word with my dh and 'sort out the problem' - which sounds like there may be a problem with dh. Gah

I understand why you're concerned but do you really think that was the right thing to do? Yes, if there was a problem with your DS, but not your husband.