wwyd? push for an answer about ow?

[imawigglyworm]

ok so about 3 years ago I found out DH had cheated on me for about 8 months with some random he met at a works party. After a lot of talking we sorted what we could and I decided that we would try to make things work.
so now its mostly been going well the usual ups and downs but I haven't forgiven and I haven't forgotten.
At the time he told me it was some girl that he chatted to at a works party (not from his work) but this hasn't always sat right with me... I don't know just like a gut feeling that he's not being honest. There were comments etc before I found out that now make me think it was possibly someone he worked with. He has told me he has no reason to lie to me which is true to an extent I guess, but I cant shift this feeling it just keeps playing on my mind.
I want to ask him again and I want the truth BUT what IF I am wrong? and i'm pushing for answers that aren't there? I know its expected that I have lost trust in him after what he had done but he did everything he could to earn that trust back to where we are now.

Would you push for an answer and rock the boat again after things have been going well or do you think my mind is just questioning trust/making up scenarios?

If things are truly going well, it won't rock the boat.
If he says "I am so sorry that what I did has destroyed your trust in me and left you feeling this bad, her name is xyz and I met her xyz way" then maybe just maybe he is worth staying with.
But I'm guessing you think you'll get told YOU need to move on?
Of course you don't trust him. That's his fault.
I would think that someone from work was a more likely scenario.
At my work, everyone is on email. If it's the same for him, I'd want this woman's name - and for him to show me the email list. Not proof as she may have moved on - but would prove it if she is still there.
You need to tell him you still are not convinced. The onus is on him to allay your reasonable fears. If he won't, you will never fix this. It's not your fault, it's his.

He has every reason to lie to you, so that's no reassurance.

Rebuilding a relationship after an affair can only work if there has been full disclosure. You don't feel confident you have had full disclosure, so the trust is not restored, and you can't move on.

Inevitably if you bring it up he will minimise and try to turn it round on you as if it's your problem that you can't get past it. You have to be absolutely clear that if he refuses to fess up, then inevitably the relationship cannot be repaired.

That's a hard one.

I think it's unlikely that it was someone he just met that night - unless he's the sort of bloke who often goes off for a ONS (lets hope not!) and far more likely that it was someone he worked with.

If he lied to you in the coming clean conversation then that is a big deal IMO. If it was someone he worked with then chances are he's seen her in one capacity or another since which (I imagine) would make a big difference to you.

I suppose the bottom line is what are you going to do with the information once you have it? Would it change anything?

maybe that's what's worrying me the most, that if he isn't honest the feeling will never go away and the relationship will never be repaired.

I think I know who it is at his work, but I have no evidence as such just comments made by him and others that have led my detective mind to come to this conclusion.

but it just keeps playing on my mind what if i'm wrong, how far do I push and will I ever be convinced?

Well, what if you are wrong?
He can try to reassure you.
He's clearly told you very little. Yet you say he's done everything he can to make you trust him. Really?
Look, sometimes when something gets broken, it's broken. There'll always be a massive bloody crack in it. Whether you live that crack or not, remember - this is HIS fault.
It's not your fault you have to ask him for more now. It's his.

No hes never had ONS before and I do think he is being faithful now.

When I found out I said (I think advice from a mumsnetter) to witness the 'finalisation' of their relationship so I said when she phoned I wanted to hear him end it with her. She didn't phone for days and I kept saying that I thought it was strange as he had previously always been on phone/texting her (I was told work mate/friends) and now she didn't seem bothered. Anyway she did eventually phone and he told her he was staying with me but it was almost as if he was expecting the phone call AND after 8 months surely they must of 'finalised' it somehow between them? the 'ive been caught out...' conversation?

I don't know how it would affect the relationship tbh.... maybe in a way i've already sort of accepted it was her? but im not really one for saying I will do X or Y because you never really know until your in that situation (I don't know I am 100%). But would I be able to continue to trust him after he has lied again?

Maybe it is broken beyond repair, love isn't always enough.
I thought we were both one partner forever once we were married so that's already a huge crack that might not ever be filled

I guess i'm going to have to have the dreaded talk again and see where it leads us.
All I have ever asked of him is for honesty and maybe if he cant still give it there isn't any point. Maybe if he does tell the truth there may be a way forward, like I said I think i've already convinced myself anyway.

If your hunch is right, and I suspect it is, that it's someone at work, that would put a different complexion on things and he might have to leave his workplace. He thinks that minimising and lying will save your relationship because if you knew the truth you might not be able to forgive him, and he might have to change jobs.

You have to explain his logic is flawed, that the only way you can forgive him and the relationship can be repaired is if he is fully honest. If he doesn't want to split up he has to do the thing that he fears may kill the relationship, if he doesn't his lack of honesty will kill it anyway, you will never be able to trust him.

If my affair boyfriend dumped me AND told me I had to call up so that his wife could hear me get dumped, I'd tell him to go fuck himself.

If you think he spoke to her before, I expect he did.

Look, I don't want to twist the knife, but the stuff you've been feeling like a detective over? Does it include thinking it's still going on?

Cos the only way I can see someone meekly agreeing to the public phone dumping would be if I was still seeing the bloke and he'd persuaded me it was to take the heat off.

I have to say I also thought it's possible that it might have continued. Not so much because of the so-called final conversation, obviously staged, but he might have steam-rollered her into it, but because it would be a key motive for lying to you about who it was. He may not want have wanted to leave his work partly because she's there. If you were unaware if was someone at work, he could continue albeit more carefully than before.

no i'm pretty sure he isn't still seeing her now - he doesn't have time. I don't even know where he found the time before tbh! He used to sneak off before work -he doesn't now.

Apparently neither wanted anything more from their affair than just sex so maybe it didn't bother her they broke up.
But he knew I wasn't going to let it lie (with her not phoning) so maybe he arranged her to call just to shut me up, maybe it wasn't her, maybe I am reading too much into it? I even got him to try to phone her to end it but she didn't answer.

She also had a boyfriend towards the end of their affair and IF it was the friend from his work I knew the boyfriend (not well), so that could be a reason for hiding it.

I didn't mean he was still seeing her now, I think after 3 years it would be unlikely, that's why I put it in the past tense. I just don't think you have any guarantee that it ended when he said it did.

maybe not, but at the time he tried everything to show me that it was over, leaving his phone at home if he didn't need it coming straight home from work etc. But if she was working with him you're right none of that would of made a difference and that could of been how/when they ended it.

It's very likely the phone call was staged. There's absolutely no motivation for him to tell you the truth . If he does it proves he's a liar and that despite his promises of being truthful he's continued to lie for three years. He's effectively caught in the lie trap. Full disclosure is ideal , but in reality I think it rarely happens fully. If he comes clean there will be negative consequences for him and he knows this. You'll unlikely ever be satisfied . Even if he did come clean about the identity there will always be something you feel he is hiding about the affair.

It sounds like this affair has been largely rugswept and not fully dealt with. It's reasonable you want the truth and the fact that your feeling this way shows he actually hasn't done the necessary work. Would counselling , for yourself be an option ? Did he ever get to the reason he allowed himself to do this ? I'm sorry , I'm familiar with the pain of this sort of betrayal. It nags and nags , and in my experience , never fully goes away.

I would write down your feelings and tell him that you need to speak to him.

The I would ask him not to interrupt, just to listen, and to come back to you with an answer in the next few days. At the end just walk off and leave the house and go and try to calm down.

You need to raise all of this. The fact that the break up call was so obviously staged - so even when trying to build trust again, he was sneaking around on the side lines. The fact that you simply don't believe that the OW was a complete randomer that he happened to meet at a party. You still think it would make a whole lot more sense if it was someone he worked with, and had a pre-standing connection to. But if that's the case, then he has continued to lie throughout the entire reconcilliation process. He might say he has nothing to gain by lying - but that's utter nonsense. He had something to gain when lying about the fact he was fucking some other woman. Now he has something to gain by not admitting that he has been lying since this affair came out. Which would make sense if it was someone he worked with. So in summary, you still don't trust him. Which is entirely his fault. Either he figures out a way to try and reinstate your trust - HIS responsibility- and not through minor gestures like leaving his phone (if he doesn't need it), but through the actually difficult things - Or if he can't/won't do that, then the relationship is over. You can't live like this. With this doubt constantly chewing through you.

What did he tell you about her, orginally?

I think it's very strange that she didn't call for days so he could end it. You're right in thinking that he must have talked to her previously to end it. I think he lied about that part.

In a way is there actually any point in rehashing the whole thing. Since you decided to crack on and move forward, is it not just best to let sleeping dogs lie? It's causing you a lot of pain at the mo.

If he was constantly texting or calling, couldn't you have checked the phone bills for her number? Seeing it's been so long I'd expect she wouldn't expect you (or anyone else) to call.

Or you could get the number and type it in his phone and see whether anything comes up.

I'd probably try those thing before asking him, just in case he tried to cover his tracks now he know you're thinking about it again.

OP I am trying to rebuild our marriage after dh had an affair. I dont know if I will ever trust him fully again. Having read the thread on 'how do people get away with affairs' I actually think not trusting fully helps remove some of the naïveté that seems to enable affairs.

In your case it doesn't sound to me as though you ever got complete honesty and disclosure after the affair. To move forward I think the cheating partner has to be willing to be completely honest. Tell you absolutely every detail you want to know. For example you have every right to know what her name was and where her place of work is. You can then check that out by calling the company and asking for her, to check she does exist. Or google her.

My dh knows that I will need to bring it up every now and then. I am trying not to but, he knows it will happen, like this week he is abroad in the same place as the OW is. It is normal for me to ask what his plans for the week are. He gets why I am asking and is willing to chat me through his itinerary, show me his schedule etc.

You still have questions about it. You should be able to raise them, explain how you feel and get your questions answered. If you can't you will never mange to move on. He should understand this and be willing to talk about it if he is committed to the relationship.

"I haven't forgiven"

You need to forgive after 3 yrs. Maybe not forget by certainly forgive.

I'm not sure going back to this now is a good idea. What if he suddenly discloses a whole different series of events? Won't it make you question the whole of the last 3 years and almost put you back at square one again.

Maybe these doubts actually
Indicate that however hard you have tried, you can't live with his deceit and you need to make a break and start again.

I disagree with sickofffrozen.

I don't think that you are under any obligation, whatsoever to forgive your husband. He betrayed you. Repeatedly. For months.

The fact that you decided to stay and work on the relationship is not a decision that, once made, you are bound to forever, or that switches the onus of responsibility for making it work onto you rather than HIM.

Look OP, my last post wasn't very clear, but here is the cliff notes version:

I think you have every reason, and every right, to bring this up again.

Firstly, and most importantly - because it really does sound like he is bullshitting you about what happened. How the fuck are you supposed to "move on" from lies and a gross betrayal, when the reconciliation is based on a lie? And, just as importantly, when the information that you were given before you decided to stay in the marriage - was also a lie.

If he can't even tell the truth about cheating on you when he admits to it (by "softening the blow") then, well really what the fuck can you trust him on? If his honesty only extends so far, but not all the way, then you bloody well shouldn't trust him.

None of this is your fault. The fact you decided to stay in the marriage does not mean that all of a sudden you simply have to shut up and put up.

If he didn't want to be in a marriage with a paranoid wife who doesn't trust him, then he should have thought about that before he stuck his cock in some other woman.