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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I'm desperate - end of the road

57 replies

Beyondhelp65 · 01/09/2014 06:59

I know my 22 year old son has to go, but how do I do it.

He is our much wanted and dearly loved first baby, excellent baby, toddler, became older brother to our second son.

Perfect family it would seem.

He entered teenage years and he has ripped our family to pieces, his behaviour was out of control. Both my husband and I ended up,on anti depressants, my husband suffered most losing around two stone in weight.

Ultimately, it culminated in his arrest and prosecution for affray at age 17. He then dropped the 'no good' friends and settled a little.

However, he hates us, me in particular, hates me, I sadly don't think this will ever change.

He does nothing in the house, his room is totally VILE, like a tramps room, bare mattress, rubbish everywhere. He just won't do a thing in the house and everything leads to a full scale row.

He works full time, but that's the only thing he does other than drink.

Let me give you an example of yesterday.

Myself and OH, went out early, around 7.30am. We had a.lovely day out, came home about 5.30ish. It was apparent that he had not been up. I felt this was ridiculous, he had not been up, eaten, done his washing, nothing.

Asked him why had he not been up and was met with a tirade of abuse, and screaming 'leave me alone' repeatedly and loudly and aggressively.

Shouting, swearing, slamming doors, you name it.

The previous day, he had been telling me he had done the ice bucket challenge, we 'chatted' about it, asked where had he done, who had nominated him. I also asked who he had nominated, he said X, Y and SAm. I innocently asked was Sam a boy or a girl, he during the argument said you just want to poke your nose into my business, you even wanted to know that. We barely speak, I was trying to make conversation, it's tough doing that when someone hates you.

Last night was the last straw, I thought him and his father would end up physically fighting, he was totally beyond unreasonable.

The next thing is there is water coming through our ceiling, OH goes running upstairs, to find the toilet full to the brim with toilet roll and water spilling over the top. He's done this before, used that much toilet roll to wipe and caused this issue, but does it again. Cue him saying it was like that already, it wasn't OH had used it previously and it was totally fine. Another screaming match of leave me alone, I hate you blah blah.

Next, youngest son comes home from work, we had dinner (didn't make eldest son any), we then went to sit in the lounge. youngest sits on one settee, eldest obviously drunk the night before had peed on it, DISGUSTING! Oh course total denial again, but OH had come down to make coffee that morning and found him on the settee and told him to go to bed, It would not have been anyone else.

He told us he won't be happy until we are both dead.

Refuses to leave the house and stay else where, we have to get him out he is starting to cause problems between everyone,

He is almost unwell with his laziness, won't get up for work unless i call him, won't 'cook' anything would live on crisps. Would dream of making a sandwich, would only put single stuff in the oven, life packet of scampi, nothing to go with it, just that.

And without exaggeration he must have lost 50 keys to our home, always have to nag him to get another cut, never ever does it without yet another fight.

I won't be getting him up anymore, told him that, he will lose his job.

Why is he like this? We gave so much to him, it's so sad.

We have tried everything, being nice, being hard, ignoring, excluding, welcoming and nothing works.

He makes out home totally hateful.

Other DS is great, normal relationships, will sometimes push the boundaries with mess etc. but a word or a text to say I just came in to find you had beans on toast, with cheese as it's everywhere, will get sorry text and will clear up properly when back. Will have a good old chat and laugh, wind his dad up over football etc all totally normal.

How do we make him go, he needs to leave us, he is abusing us.

Sorry long post but really we are desperate. The above is just a snapshot.

OP posts:
aermingers · 01/09/2014 13:47

I'm trying to think of a nice and constructive way to say this but it's hard. Two things jump out at me, your claim you were the 'perfect family' and also the making of meals for his younger brother and not for him. And the fact you blame everything that has gone wrong and your own health problems on him. The way you describe things you do without him as 'lovely' but when you return he ruins it.

I found it really difficult to read you comparing your younger son in glowing terms, he will have picked up on this. He will be feeling rejected and second best. You have listed a long list of things he does wrong without a single positive and then written warmly about his brother. I have to say I feel rather sorry for him.

There is a phenomena called 'scapegoating' where a family will focus on one child and blame it for all their problems whilst seeing the rest of the family as the perfect unit who would have no problems or issues if this other child would just disappear. A child like that also becomes a self fulfilling prophecy because as they are criticised and upbraided and told they are bad they start to behave that way, see no reason in being 'good' and become more and more emotionally damaged so their behaviour becomes worse and worse the family blame them more and more and it becomes a vicious cycle. I

I don't want to be harsh but could you really sit down and look hard at yourself and not admit that there is not at least a small element of that? Because it's glaring to me.

He also seems to be showing classic signs of depression in not getting up and not eating. But you seem to see this as a sign of his 'badness' rather than potentially an illness which concerns me, this should be worrying you, not making you angry.

I also say this because it seems odd that he is doing okay at work when he is like this outside work. I suspect that this might be because he does not have the triggers he reacts to at home when he is at work.

There are a few things

  1. Getting up early - Lots and lots of teenagers and people in their early 20s have this and it's off due to their body chemistry at that point in their life. If you have to call him to get him up to keep his job this is a small sacrifice I think. Could you look into one of those sunrise alarm clocks or buy several alarm clocks for his room to force him up?

  2. A messy room is par for the course at that age

  3. If he has not got up on a non-work day why does that effect you? If he hasn't done his washing he won't have clean clothes. Him not eating or getting up does not negatively effect you it just annoys you.

  4. Ditto the cooking and eating, he is an adult and if he chooses to eat nothing but turkey twizzlers and spam for the next year that is his choice and it doesn't affect you. And cooking for one son but not the other was cruel.

The line saying 'he is destroying our home and our happiness' almost made me weep for the boy, the people who are supposed to be his nearest and dearest appear to hate him.

He probably does need to move out because this is a destructive situation too and is probably doing his self esteem no good. But at the moment you seem to have the attitude that you can just lock him out of the house, get the locks changed, leave him to his own devices, sod it if he has to sleep on the streets or go to a homeless hostel full of frightening violent drug addicts. That's probably the reason he breaks back in, he has nowhere else to go. Does it not concern you that he might have to sleep rough? How do you think it makes him feel when he watches you dote on your other son and cook his meals when you don't actually care if he has a bad to sleep in tonight?

Sort out moving out but do it properly. Help him to find a houseshare which is affordable on his wages and has a reasonable commute to his work. Help him move, help him buy the essentials he will need to live alone like towels and bedding. Drive him and his stuff there.

Don't just say 'we are throwing you out because we hate you and you are ruining everything in our life and are the sole source of our problems' (which is what he is hearing even if you're not saying it explicitly).

Be nice about it, tell him you're not getting on and it's best for all of you if he moves out but tell him that you still want to help him out and see him and perhaps suggest Sunday lunches etc.

Also he needs to visit the doctor and see if there is either a physical problem behind his behaviour (eg not getting up) or a mental one (depression).

I do appreciate this situation is difficult for you and you are struggling and I do sympathise but I can also see the situation from his point of view and can understand that he is a young man who doesn't really have the tools to deal with the emotional situation he is in with you and is flailing about making things worse for himself and everybody else.

wfielder · 01/09/2014 14:33

Beyond your prayers have been answered.

Send your dear son to stay with aermingers. problem solved.

I think that some posters have to find someone to blame (usually the parents) because otherwise they have to acknowledge that it's sheer luck that they do not find themselves in a similar position. They prefer to believe that they have superior parenting skills, and it could never happen to them.

aermingers · 01/09/2014 15:01

Where did I say I had superior parenting skills?

I think you're also being very hypocritical - you are happy to blame everything on the son without even considering that the parents might have contributed to this toxic situation.

I think it's a combination of factors causing this.

gamerchick · 01/09/2014 15:07

I thought that as well wf Wink

It doesn't matter who's to blame although sometimes you have to stand up and be counted and not blame your childhood for the vile things you do as an adult.

MrsDeVere · 01/09/2014 15:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WaffleWiffle · 01/09/2014 15:48

Superb post aermingers.

I wonder if the OP will hear herself saying things like "but we took you to stately homes" in years to come when he has found himself a supportive wife and stops contact with his parents.

Dysfunctional family, not dysfunctional individual.

gamerchick · 01/09/2014 15:55

There you go OP there seem to be 2 bods willing to take him in with open arms. I'm sure PMs are winging there way to you now.

gamerchick · 01/09/2014 15:56

Their

cansu · 01/09/2014 15:56

If he disliked his family so much he would be leaving. He is not. He is vile to the op and then returns to his room to have a laugh watching tv. He does no chores and takes no part in family life. Of course the op is fed up of him. I think she does need to stand up to him and tell him to move out. Yes, I would probably help by offering to pay deposit or something but nevertheless I would ask him to leave.

OfCourse · 01/09/2014 16:21

OP states they have tried every approach and nothing makes a difference aermingers

He needs to go, he's an adult now.

You have my sympathy OP

NoImSpartacus · 01/09/2014 16:26

OP pls don't listen to the posters who have said this may be your fault. Your son is 20 years old, not 15. He is a fully grown adult and is treating you like shit. My parents didn't want me at home even though I was well behaved and respectful, I would have loved to have parents like you that wanted me to be there.

Your son is a piss taker, he has two loving parents yet he takes that for granted.

This is not some naughty child. This is an adult who is old enough to be responsible for his actions.

I would throw him out, he needs to see that you will not be walked over. He has lost all respect for you.

Good luck you sound lovely.

NoImSpartacus · 01/09/2014 16:26

Sorry 22, not 20. Wow that makes this even worse.

22 is an ADULT!!

wfielder · 01/09/2014 16:28

The problem is that if you haven't experienced a child behaving this way, you simply cannot understand the situation. I firmly believed that if a child was loved, wanted, cared for and given a happy secure home life, then what could possibly go wrong? How smug was I?

Your child is born with it's own personality. Many traits skip generations, so if your family has addiction problems, you might not but your children might.

If you treat your children equally and fairly do they turn out the same?

I know that it's the old nature versus nurture debate, but if you throw drink and drugs into the mix, then absolutely nothing is predictable.

comingintomyown · 01/09/2014 18:26

My DB had the locks changed on him when he was 17 for far far less

My best friend has a 20 year old DD very much like this and I steeled myself to say the other day to advise changing the locks and standing up to her. Yes this DDs upbringing was far from perfect but at this age there are few scenarios where I would think that's an excuse.

OP in your shoes I wouldn't spend any more time wondering what to do I would tell him to leave , don't give him notice but give him funds for B&B for a couple of weeks. It will be extremely hard but that's what I would do

theoldtrout01876 · 01/09/2014 18:31

Im having a very similar problem with my 20 year old Ds2 at the moment

Today I fired the first shot in the war about to ensue and Im shitting a brick but determined not to back down. ( He has options,he can go to his dads )

BitterAndOnlySlightlyTwisted · 01/09/2014 19:07

I think it's really unfair and very unhelpful to blame the OP for the child's behaviour and I don't think it really matters now whether this 22 year old man is the family scapegoat or not. He's making the entire family's lives a living hell and he needs to go. I'd tell him he's got till the end of this week to make alternative arrangements. And then lock his arse out of the house. He's probably just been paid and apparently doesn't pay his parents much in housekeeping, so should be able to make plans. If his parents are that bad he'll be much happier elsewhere.

This is going need nerves of steel but it can be done. Other parents have done it.

HumblePieMonster · 01/09/2014 19:48

No matter what caused the 22 year old working man to behave abusively towards his parents, and to think he is lord of their house and their lives, it has to stop now.

He can have counselling later for his issues if he wants to. Maybe it will turn out his parents got something wrong.

But they shouldn't have a life of hell in their own home. They should approach their older years wondering what kind of verbal or physical assault, or damage to property is coming next.

Kick him out. And plan on moving and not giving him your new address. Keep in touch by facebook!

Twinklestein · 01/09/2014 19:51

I agree it's unfair to blame the OP for their son's problems. Some mental health issues are organic rather than environmental. There are many people who are the family scapegoat who don't behave the way the son is behaving, just as there are people who experience very serious abuse as children who don't behave like him.

At the same time, while I think changing the locks is justified in the circumstances, it would be upsetting for someone who sounds like he may have quite serious mental health problems.

I would give him an ultimatum that he has to move out by x date, say you love him but you can't tolerate his behaviour any more, and that you will help him find a place & set up etc. Of course he will spit in your face.
If he won't accept help to find a new place, and he doesn't do it by the specified date, at that point changing the locks may be necessary.

As he has a job, if the worst comes to the worst he can stay in a B&B until he finds somewhere to live. Being forced to take responsibility for himself - specifically his accommodation & his health, may be the very thing he needs. If a mental health problem becomes clear at that point, then crisis mental health services that will be able to help him. Unfortunately the OP has no power to compel him to go to the doctor as he's an adult. His departure may the catalyst to his getting help, if necessary.

Beyondhelp65 · 01/09/2014 20:18

Thank you for your messages, I can assure people that I really have tried and tried and tried to solve this via 'nice' methods. I have been rejected at every stage.

With regards our younger son, I have said previously, he is not perfect, he has just come through teens but he is not like our eldest. For many, many years, we avoided situations to avoid stress with our eldest.

Example.....we sometimes go out for a Thai lunch meal a lovely restaurant near us. It became intolerable with eldest as he was awful to,us, so we had to say no we are not going. This meant that youngest and ourselves missed out, after many months of this type of thing, we realised that we were sacrificing our memories with the youngest, you know sitting round a table chatting, learning what was going on In his life I decided we would go again. I'm sorry that eldest can't/doesn't want to be with us, but I now will not sacrifice my youngest having no good memories. At one stage I thought youngest would move out just to get away for the constant war. He can't bring friends back, he worries that eldest will kick off.

A PP that said "getting him up, Is a small price to pay" I've done this since he turned 13, I'm tired, I work full time, i try to live a life outside work and getting on for 10 years of a constant battle is now showing. He has sworn, screamed and shouted, if I dare raise my voice after the 5th/6th time of calling, he will go mad, name calling, screaming, all before I too have to leave for work.

We are planning a trip next January which means we will be out of the country for two weeks, in a different time zone, my main worry is how will he get up, how much of a mess will he make etc. I don't worry about younger like this, he knows the boundaries

OH and I have chatted a lot tonight, agreed that tomorrow or Wednesday (dependent on when I get home from work) we are going to give a 10 day notice and give him a weeks b&b money

This will break my heart, but ultimately we cannot live in this war zone. It's not good for any of us.

I can assure everyone, that our son is much loved and much wanted and I don't know or understand why this has happened, if I could change it, I would.

I love my son, but I recognise that we need to break this before he becomes a bad husband or partner.

Thank you for your thoughts.

OP posts:
WaffleWiffle · 01/09/2014 20:24

we are going to give a 10 day notice and give him a weeks b&b

Would it be possible to help him find somewhere more permanent to live in those 10 days, rather than funding an B&B?

gamerchick · 01/09/2014 20:28

He's an adult he can find his own place.. it'll do him good to do something for himself, he can't chuck it in any body's face then.

wfielder · 01/09/2014 21:38

OP, be prepared for any type of strange behaviour when he realises that you are serious.
Don't waver, this is your precious life that is at stake.

Novida · 01/09/2014 22:21

OP I read your post with a heavy heart as my poor mum had a very similar situation to deal with as a single parent when we were growing up. Our father died when we were young. Mum brought up 5 children single-handed- one of my brothers was unbearable to live with in his teens. Surly, rude, aggressive, lazy, unkempt. Displayed sexually inappropriate behaviour towards me as his younger sister too, which I never told my mum about. We used to go to bed at 7.30 pm just to get out of his way in the evening. To this day my mum wonders what went wrong with him. He was given exactly the same opportunities as us all, yet he had this destructive personality. She eventually got him to agree to join the forces to get him out of the house. This way she felt he would be looked after- fed and watered etc. I feel for you and your younger son as this situation will impact on him and I believe you are right to want to break this destructive cycle and to reclaim your home.
It will be painful for all involved but you will ultimately be doing him a favour. Good luck.

springydaffs · 01/09/2014 22:47

Just lost a huge post - suffice to say, been there, T-shirt.

He has to go. You have to inform the police if he tries to break in. He is 22, an adult. He functions well outside the home (like my boy - this is a good sign!). He has to stand on his own feet, sink or swim.

3 years later (NC, his choice in response to the above boundaries) I spoke to him for the first time a week ago. Something has definitely shifted. I can't help feeling a glimmer of hope... though predominantly wary. He was tearful at hearing my voice, wants to see me, sounds well and stable...

Those 3 years? Hell - for me, anyway, no idea yet what it was for him, I had no idea where he was for what he was doing. A different hell to the previous (skunk/alcohol/police) hell, but hell nonetheless. I feel for you.

Agree that b&b not the best idea: perhaps offer to help with a deposit on alternative accommodatiin. But that's it. Cut him loose. Pray.

Beyondhelp65 · 03/09/2014 09:26

Update ...... For those of you still with me. I researched some places. OH. and I asked to talk with him yesterday. His immediate reaction was "what now"? Like it is whenever we want to talk with him. We said we wanted him to move out, that we wanted this as peaceful as possible. He said that he also wanted to move that he had asked at work if anyone knew of a room going. We said two weeks but he asked for a month, which we agreed too. He was cold and slightly aggressive..

It sounds great the problem being that it has to happen yet, "talk is cheap".

I'm sad that it has come to this and sad that we are on such bad terms but we need peace and we need my home back. There is not a thing in his room that is worth keeping, so we will clear it once he has gone and leave it like that a while as a PP suggested.

Thank you for sharing your experiences, I will keep you informed how things go.

OP posts: