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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

ExP wants me to apologise for saying...

61 replies

theendoftheendoftheend · 30/08/2014 23:16

'It's not your money, it's not my money, it's the DC's money' regarding the maintenance payments he makes each month.
I have tried to see his point of view and why he found this 'disrespectful' but for the life of me I can't. He really wants me to understand his point of view and apologise, but without understanding his point of view I can't apologise!
He has tried to explain but I still don't get it.
Is it an unkind thing to say? Is it diminishing his role? I just thought it was an accurate discription.
Any ideas? I suspect tbh that he was just picking a row and there is another issue at the root of it, but I don't want to be dismissive if he does have a point and IABU?

OP posts:
Original poster
theendoftheendoftheend · 31/08/2014 01:12

I'd rather let the money go then have the fight tbh.
I believe he is BU, I believe he is trying to be manipulative too, I don't want more money from him (DM said to tell him to stick HIS money where the sun doesn't shine, we'll survive she'll pay the equivalent I am tempted to do this just to take him by surprise!) I want to deal with it in such a way so that we don't fall out but I do stand my ground.

OP posts:
whitsernam · 31/08/2014 01:15

I can see how you don't want to rock the boat, but is this sustainable? Surely you'd sometimes like to go to bed early, or have a male friend, someday? He's still keeping you under his thumb or under his eyes by having his contact in your home....

Original poster
theendoftheendoftheend · 31/08/2014 01:23

It is completely unsustainable! I think this is a bit of the issue. He's been offered an interview for a job a long way off, he told me and I tried to be supportive that he should go for it if only for the experience, could give him bargaining power at his present company, if he did get it it would be fine, people make it work there's Skype, holidays, DC have a good relationship with him etc. But during the course of this row he said I was trying to get rid of him so he wouldn't be around and I could just claim more money from his larger pay packet. I think that's what it's really about tbh.

OP posts:
Darkesteyes · 31/08/2014 01:23

He believes that he "owns" you OP This IS abuse. He is using access days to control you both financially and emotionally.

This is probably the real reason he wants this access rather than to actually spend time with his children.

Darkesteyes · 31/08/2014 01:25

Your last sentence at 1.23 confirms what i already thought.

Oldraver · 31/08/2014 01:38

So he 'has' them 2-3 nights to get out of paying CM but contact is at your house so really no overnights? Well thats lying to CSA for one thing.

I think you really need to detatch from him

FunkyBoldRibena · 31/08/2014 06:48

First off, there are no overnights so you need to get the maintenance upped again. Secondly, I'd say the maintenance was yours actually, and you then in turn spend it on the kids. As if the money doesn't come you still have to put a roof over their heads etc.

No way I'd let that situation continue, if he has them he needs to take them out of your house, that is madness. And it's just to control you, not to see the kids. You need to get that one resolved pronto.

Vivacia · 31/08/2014 07:00

You need legal advice quickly. This sounds an horrendous situation.

GinAndSonic · 31/08/2014 07:16

Rock the boat. Seriously. Go via csa, stop letting him in your house to abuse you, report him to the police if he kicks off. Hes relying on you not wanting to rock the boat in order to continue this pattern of abusive behaviour, but you can stop it.
I think you need to see a solicitor.

Vivacia · 31/08/2014 07:20

Him providing a safe environment to see his children is his responsibility. It's not yours and you don't have to allow him in to your home.

Squeegle · 31/08/2014 08:01

The whole rationale of him paying less to you in proportion to the amount of times he has them, is that he will be paying some of their costs.

If he is not having them at his, and therefore you're taking on that cost, then he should have no reduction.

I can understand why you don't want them to go to his, but this is not right. You're getting the worst of all worlds. He has swindled you out; I feel very angry on your behalf. I hope he does take the job elsewhere.

I agree, you should get legal advice. You may choose not to follow it, but you will know where you stand and your options.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 31/08/2014 08:11

You're being had.

This can happen when you let a bully dictate the terms and you're too frightened to challenge them. What you need is legal advice leading to a formal access and maintenance agreement that can't be welshed on or used to manipulate you. Take yourself completely out of any discussions and stop engaging.

tribpot · 31/08/2014 08:17

Don't you think that continuing this highly unequal and abusive relationship in your children's home might be - at best - confusing for them? You're clearly not truly separated, not emotionally. Not if you're wasting your time trying to understand the 'logic' behind his ridiculous comment, allowing him all his contact at your house and at your expense, and with an attitude that the goal is I can wing it and keep him happy.

He's completely done you over, financially and emotionally. This sentence - I mean my god, what would you think if someone else wrote this: 'His' Sundays involve me providing everything whilst he lies on the couch. If I go out I have to lay out food before I go and clear up when I get back.

Are you fucking kidding? You're exiled from your own house, having been forced out of the marital home and left with all the debts, and now you have to wait hand and foot on the guy who's ripped you off?

Please - for your own sake, and your children's - get this man out of your house. And pursue him for the maintenance he owes you. He's done a complete number on you about these overnights to reduce maintenance, that's insane.

Anniegetyourgun · 31/08/2014 08:26

He "has them overnight" (at your expense) but you still have to be back before midnight? Or is that 11am the next day? (I bet it isn't.)

He's not having them overnight at all then. He's popping round to do a bit of babysitting - yes, I say babysitting, I know they're his own children so it should be valuable contact time - so that you can go out for a few hours whether you actually wanted to or not Confused

tipsytrifle · 31/08/2014 08:45

I agree with what everyone is saying that this is a horrific situation. I didn't realise until you started saying more about how it worked. This is totally abusive and, as you know, unsustainable.

Please, please - as soon as you can face changing it all and reclaiming your life and space, then do so. This is all but sounding like a marital relationship minus the marriage cert.

Would your mother really substitute the payments? I know it's his responsibility and all that but if you are so paralysed by this vile man it must be tempting.

If i could wave a magic wand I'd spin him right out of your orbit.
But I guess when you're able to do that yourself you will? Soon as ...?

Original poster
theendoftheendoftheend · 31/08/2014 09:58

I don't know what I'm waiting for, its all about not letting it kick off and keeping it calm and nice for DC.
But due to a different family situation and things I've read on here it dawned on me that he's abit of a narcissist, I mentioned narcissism to him in relation to someone else we know, he looked it up and was shocked at how it fitted him. He then did some online tests and got a massive score. He seemed quite proud of himself!
The point is, I know that I act as a codependent. I've looked it up and read all about it, there really is nothing to recommend codependent behaviour.
But I also read that just knowing that is your pattern of behaviour can be a big step in breaking it.
I think this is why I haven't reacted to this latest issue how I usually would. When the row happened it was like I was watching it rather then being a part of it. It was very odd. He's called me a couple of times since wanting an apology, I've politely refused and rang off. Things seem calm at the mo, but presumably he'll turn up at some point today to see DC. So I'm going out.
tipsy yes she has said she will I'm tempted to say to him not to pay because he wouldn't see that coming. I think this is all about control and its a cycle I want to break.

OP posts:
Polonium · 31/08/2014 10:08

Don't tell him not to pay. Don't excuse his shitty behaviour. He has children, he needs to provide for them financially, emotionally and practically.

Just keep reminding him of that and then hang up.

Polonium · 31/08/2014 10:11

Why are you counselling him through his job search?

Were you married?

EarthWindFire · 31/08/2014 10:15

I'd say the maintenance was yours actually, and you then in turn spend it on the kids.

No IMO this is incorrect. If it was the OPs money it would be classed as spousal maintenance not child maintenance.

Polonium · 31/08/2014 10:29

The child maintenance is his statutory contribution towards the upkeep of his children. It is very clearly for the benefit if the children and won't even nearly cover the huge sum it actually costs to raise a child.

He is required by law to maintain his children.

tribpot · 31/08/2014 12:08

its all about not letting it kick off and keeping it calm and nice for DC.

Or teaching them passivity in the face of bullying. You're determined to keep it calm, he certainly isn't. He's contacting you way too much and you're letting him for 'an easy life'. Nothing about this sounds easy - or in the best interests of your children.

ThinkIveBeenHacked · 31/08/2014 12:14

He got to keep the Family Home but now its not fit for his family due to the lodgers he has taken in?

Clutterbugsmum · 31/08/2014 15:05

Surely he would only get a reduction in maintenance if he actually has them overnight in his own home, where he is providing for their needs, and not because he sees them at your house 2 or 3 days/evenings a week at your home where you still provide for all their needs.

Horsemad · 31/08/2014 15:07

By going along with this daft access arrangement, you are doing your own kids out of more money because of his reduced maintenance payments!

Get a grip and tell him this present arrangement stops. NOW!

captainmummy · 31/08/2014 19:00

OP - he's more likely to take the new job if he is
a) told to pay more to cover your costs when he babysits the dc OR
b) he provides a safe home for them to stay overnight at his. WHere he will have to cater for food, electricity, heating etc.

WHen he is no longer about to abuse you in your own home, with your consent, well, then he might want to get right away.

And what on earth - he lives in a house with little mortgage (is your name on the house too btw?) and can rake in the money sub-letting the bedrooms, while you had to move out and now pay a large rent for the same size house as he lives in for himself? That makes NO sense at all (other than to his presumably)

Get legal legal legal!