Is it an 'affair'?

[dreamingofblueskies]

I posted two and a half weeks ago about my husband sending and receiving explicit messages to an old school friend on Facebook. Here's the link if you want to read it.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2148035-What-do-I-do

My question might sound like a silly one but was this an affair? I see it as a massive emotional betrayal but I don't really know what to call it. An indiscretion, a blip, what?

I ask this because I am looking for a book that may help me process my feelings but they all seem to be about affairs/infidelity, and I can't figure out if my situation would be covered in a book like that.

Find a book about men who can't be trusted cos he certainly cant, what he has done to you (and possibly at other times) is the lowest of the low, I don't know how anyone could do that to their partner, whether married or not, he's untrustworthy, a liar and a complete and utter disgusting man - how are you managing to get past this?

It might not be a full blown affair but it sure as heck is infidelity.

Ive just read your previous thread dreaming, what a complete arse!!!! This is all new andstill very raw, how the woman has the audacity to text him to see why shes been blocked is a cheeky bastard thing to do, I would be demanding he change his phone number, if you are going to try and get over this emotional betrayal then you both need to completely leave his Facebook account dead and buried. But I will say as much as hes sorry and remorseful, if you hadn't caught him out he would still be participating in these conversations with her

hello, maybe a book about emotional affairs (where they haven't got physical, but are inappropriate relationships) might be helpful for you?

I've read your previous post but can't see any detail about what was going on, except for inappropriate 'rude' pics or details about body parts?

I wouldn't call it an affair. It sounds more like a flirtation where neither of them know where the boundaries should be.

Emotional affairs imply some kind of emotional connection and a longing to be with the other person.

It's not good, and he sounds very immature. I'd want to dig deeper in your shoes and discuss your relationship, without dragging in this incident, because it sounds as if he is bored and wanting to get some excitement from an old flame.

I think 'Not Just Friends' by Shirley Glass might be useful OP.

www.amazon.co.uk/Not-Just-Friends-Rebuilding-Recovering/dp/0743225503

It's just an affair.

There doesn't have to be buzzwords involved.

There were explicit pictures exchanged, she has his mobile number, and they had been sexting.

That's not just an emotional affair.

Kay is right, it's both, hardly a flirtation when they are exchanging pics of their genitalia, eeeew.

I know how you feel - I found out my H had been texting another woman - I never had any proof that it went beyond that and he denies it did. Anyway - he is a complete technophobe so I was able to check his phone records online - without having access to the content there were definitely picture messages going back and forth and I think we can safely assume he wasn't sending pics of me & the kids!!!

His phone records would only let me go back a year, but on questioning him I found out he'd met her 4 yrs previously - for 4 YEARS he had a "virtual" (only got hsi word for that) relationship with someone else and he still refuses to define it as an affair. But affair is the only word I can use, but I couldn't have felt anymore betrayed if things were proven to have been physical.

That was all 5 1/2 yrs ago and we are still together - we never discuss it, and it isn't ever present in our marriage, I am not completely over it as I still don't think he's taken responsibility.

The reasons I decided to try and get past it (1) I loved him (2) I could see how my own behaviour could have contributed to him seeking affection elsewhere.

Half of me is glad I stayed the last 5 years haven't been horrible. the other half of me regrets not using it as a springboard to get out of a relationship that was (and still is) far from what I would want.

My only advice would be to think carefully, and in answer to your oringal question - yes definitely adn "affair" in my book.

That's the one I was looking at phalenopsis but I was unsure because of the word 'infidelity', hence this topic! Have you read it?
I am actually in the same place as this lady re. wanting to give us a go, obviously her situation is more painful than mine.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/a1984782-Cant-be-bothered-to-name-change-Discovered-emails-on-DHs-phone

an affair involves sexual intercourse by definition - don't think it happened here. It was a flirtation that was online/ phone....they don't seem to be emotionally involved other than swapping pics of their genitals. As i said, immature behaviour and I wouldn't want to be with any man who did that, married to him or not, but I thinkl egally if you want to divorce you would not find what happened as grounds for an 'affair' - more unreasonable behaviour.

yougotafriend, 4 years is a hell of a long time, I thought 2 weeks was bad enough.
Did you go to counselling? He wants to go but I am unsure, especially after reading some less than glowing reviews of it on here.

Yougo, no offence but he will say black is white rather than admit to the truth, any person who conducts an affair for 4 years is not worth the bother, he clearly has denied and minimised and you have both brushed it under the carpet - I think wrongly you blame yourself, no matter how bad a relationship gets, seeking sexual or intimate connections with another person is never an OK thing to do, never.

You can never trust him again, the only good thing is that if he attempts the same again, I think you would actually call it a day.

Even as adults, if there are no consequences for our actions, there's nothing to stop that behaviour repeating itself.

No we didn't go to counselling - but I had previously done a variety of counselling courses so felt I could look at the situation objectively (after several weeks or course - initially I was raging).

I have always been very "capable" and look at a relationship as 2 individuals that chose to be together. My H is very different, he wants to be needed, I love him but don't feel I need him, never have - especially while the DCs where small - I just get on with stuff. This lead to him seeking attention/approval elsewhere. I recognise I do this and since him verbalising it I've tried to get him more involved with household/family matters, but the reality is he prefers to leave it all up to me - so I now look back and think it's a chicken and egg scenario - was I always like this or have I had to be since living with him???

I don't think about it a lot and I don't believe he will ever be that stupid again.

When I go out with my girlfriends I get a lot of male attention and I can't deny I enjoy it. But I've never swapped numbers and never gone beyond a bit of drunken flirting - but I know that if he saw me when i was out, he'd feel betrayed and devastated - so part of me thinks - am I as bad?

That is worry yougo, almost like if he doesn't get enough attention of you, he's off - you are still blaming yourself, it's his responsibility to remain faithful not yours.

I think you are seriously deluded if you think you being out with the girls having a flirt is the same as him going behind your back for four years, you have just highlighted the core difference between the two of you - you can be trusted, he knows this, you know he can't, nothing to stop it happening again I'm afraid.

TBH he is older than me, hardly goes out anymore except to old mens pubs to watch footy and invariably has one of our DS with him. Without sounding horrible - I'd be amazed if anyone else gave him a 2nd glance these days.

I know what you're saying Jan, my Dsis says it to me all the time and I know the relationship is flawed for lots of reasons (but that's for another discussion another time). I think he has always felt slightly inferior and it was his way of having part of his life that I wasn't in charge of, I know this makes him sound like a pathetic dick and even at 55 he needs to grow up.

I am not saying it was all my fault - but the old adage is that an affair is a symptom of a bad marriage rather than the cause of breaking up a good one - so I have to take responsibility for my part of it being bad in the first place.

Anyway I don't want to hijack this thread that isn't even mine!!

I get what you are saying OP = he's weak and easy lead, again, nothing to stop him repeating his behaviour, it's amazing how attractive you can make yourself online.

No an affair is a symptom of that person not holding his partner in enough regard to not shit all over her.

Sorry, I still think you are taking the blame for his own actions, I get what you are saying but surely if the relationship is bad then you either work to make it better or walk away, what he did is clearly not giving a fuck about your feelings, sorry.

And yes, don't mean to hijack either, just sad to hear all the stories about women putting up with shit men, there is no need, you don't need a man to be happy.

Is it an affair? Certainly emotional cheating. These days there's instant gratification via sexting, Facebook etc. In your DH's case I imagine while on deployment months and miles away from you it is very easy to access ways technologically to relieve frustration.

He's been at pains to give all kinds of reasons, shifting blame. What exactly were the intentions behind the texting? If it seemed harmless at first he still ended up crossing a line. He hasn't admitted to a feeling of attraction. Deleting all the messages sounds like they were more than simple chats. If they were provocative or increasingly intimate messages he was in effect saying to her not you that he'd like to do things to and with her.

That time and energy should have been directed at you and the family. He would have stopped right away if he were not a willing participant.

Once you found out, he went straight into deny, deny mode. And note the "I get plenty offers while I'm away ALL THE TIME but turn them down", as if he deserves a medal. Oh and as for 'cheering her up' because let me guess she was 'going through a rough patch' another cliché . Too bad he destroyed your love and trust. How does he fix this?

I think her texting DH asking why she was blocked from FB would have tipped me over the edge, good on you for keeping your cool.

I did read a lot of the messages before I felt too overwhelmed to go on, and most of them were 'innocent'. He would tell her how much he loved me, I have pointed out to him that she probably pissed herself laughing at that one.

Everytime he didn't message her for a day or so she would message him telling him that she was in a lot of pain and felt really low. She instigated the message thread and the photos, she sent 3 to him and then asked to see some of him as they would cheer her up. (FFS, who would be cheered up by a picture of a dick? I find them incredibly ugly things to look at whilst 'inanimate'!)

I am not excusing the fact that he did it as he could have told her to jog on when she sent the first picture, but it does make it slightly easier to bear that he didn't start it. And when she asked if he was coming up North (where both he and I are from) he said no, even though we were, so there was no suggestion that he wanted to make it physical.

I actually have accepted that it meant nothing to him from the way he has behaved since. It's hard to explain everything on here, but believe me, he is truly, honestly sorry and is disgusted with himself.

I need a way to just get past the sadness, and I would love to get past the feeling that she has got away scott free from all this, I can see from her BF's Facebook page that they have been having lovely days out together with their DC.

Oh, and the text message wasn't meant to be from her, it was from someone who said they were called Eve, that isn't OW's name. It's either her using her mobile to text him (my husband doesn't have her mobile number so we can't tell) or getting a friend to text him for her, either way, it's a bit evil.

We think she got his mobile number from his facebook page before it all kicked off as he never texted her using his phone, it was always through Facebook. (And I do know for certain that he didn't text her)

I think as grown ups and responsible women we have to be honest with ourselves, an affair is an affair as soon ad you do or say to another person something that you would not want your partner to know specially in an emotional side or sexual, I deny myself to think so when after 26 years I met again my dads best friend son who I grew up with but always had a real crush on not knowing that he always felt the same , we did not even talk much to each other it was so heavy to bear the first day we met we could not get off the phone afterwards , sending messages talking like we were together bifor and lost each other .we both had built strong families and felt strongly responsible of our kids and partners but we look at each other and know we love and always have each other.

Stop worrying about her getting away Scot free. Let it go and don't credit her with more importance than she deserves, and save your emotional energy.
She was clearly predatory. Your DH did most of the right things by refusing to see her.
He was a dick- in every sense- but he seems remorseful.

Maybe in a couple of years' time you can both have a laugh about the silly woman who was 'cheered' by the sight of his willy. Feel sorry for her- not mad.

when she asked if he was coming up North (where both he and I are from) he said no, even though we were, so there was no suggestion that he wanted to make it physical.

Good. Hope he agrees to complete transparency from now on, and no more taking photos of the organ he thinks with.

I do think he has to take responsibility and be the one to fix this but why shouldn't you vent and get it into his head why you were - are - so upset. And try not to waste thinking time on that female.

He says he actually got no sexual gratification from the messages, and I must admit when I looked at the pictures he sent her I did think that it wasn't normally that small, IYSWIM. [embarrassed]

I am not excusing what he did, and I know he was an absolute shit to do what he did, but I don't want the 2 weeks that he spent messaging her to colour the 16 years we have had together. Obviously they will and I can't see myself ever forgiving him for it, but I am desperately hoping that we can make it through.

He thinks that this has made him face up to reality, whereas before he would always pretend everything was fine just to keep confrontation down. This all stems from his, quite frankly, weird upbringing.

I wish I could stop thinking about her, but I find myself compulsively googling her, trying to find a mobile number or address. Don't ask me what I would do if I found her address, probably something quite pathetic like sign her up for lots of embarrassing junk mail, but it would make me feel better.

Check his phone bill, maybe he'll qualify for a discount on data transfer charges because the content was small.