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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Advice pls...

51 replies

LalaDipsey · 18/08/2014 20:50

I haven't started a post in a long time about this and can I ask you please to not reply with your gut instinct and to think. I need advice and don't know if I'm being completely stupid or not.... ExH and I had been together since I was 19. There were moments when he was drunk when he wasn't very nice but these weren't very often. We then struggled to conceive and at my age then of 31 we started the gruelling rounds of IVF. 5yrs and 5 rounds later we had dd (2.5) and DTs (just born). He struggled after DD was born, he drank more and had some moments of very drunk not very niceness. After DTs were born he spiralled. He wasn't very nice. Didn't help much at all and on two occasions had violent incidents with the children, neither resulted in doctors visits but nonetheless they happened. Due to some fantastic support on here it helped me demand counselling and changes which he couldn't do so he left. He left 18 months ago when the twins were one. Since he left he has come to see the children every week for around 2 hrs. He hasn't really sought much information about them in the week. I know this all sounds really bad. But we have 20yrs history now. And he's the father of my children. He has been good lately. He brought the children presents last week. Am I absolutely bonkers to even vaguely consider vaguely contemplating anything? He says he will do anything. But the one thing I have consistently asked which he has consistently refused to do is go to AA and stop drinking for good as most of his arsehole moments have happened when either pissed or hungover.....

OP posts:
inlectorecumbit · 18/08/2014 21:00

dont go there, nothing has changed.
whoopey doo for playing father of the year -2 hours a week and recently bought presents Hmm
I remember your original thread-he wont consider the one thing you ask of him, He says he will do anything.. No he wont

justmuddlingalong · 18/08/2014 21:01

I read your post twice, so as not to reply with my gut instinct. But, sorry, 20 years of a pretty shi*y relationship is 20 years of a pretty shi*y relationship.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 18/08/2014 21:01

Lala

I remember you and I read he is now seeing his children for around 2 hours per week.

You have shared history yes but do not ever fall into the sunken costs fallacy in relationships. The damage here has already been done and co-dependency is often a feature of such relationships as well.

No to contemplating anything more vague or otherwise, keep things as they are. He is the father of your children but he is still drinking and that has never changed throughout.

Unfortunately this comment of his therefore is not all that surprising so anything more is really a non starter:-

He says he will do anything. But the one thing I have consistently asked which he has consistently refused to do is go to AA and stop drinking for good as most of his arsehole moments have happened when either pissed or hungover.....

No he won't do anything and you cannot make him stop drinking or make him go to AA.

One of the three C's re alcoholism is that you cannot cure it. Sorry Lala but you are on a complete hiding to nothing at all by asking him to go to AA or stop drinking for good. HE has to be the one who wants to do that, you cannot make him and any attempts you try have been, are and will be doomed to failure.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 18/08/2014 21:05

One fact you have to accept: some relationships throughout your life may be worth ending.

People can abuse people in a number of ways: physically, mentally, financially, spiritually, etc. Maintaining long-term relationships with people who take part in these abuses will suck the life out of you in the long-term. Unfortunately, that’s a huge cost that some people seem willing to bear. You are one such person Lala.

For one reason or another, some people stay stuck in relationships that end up being a net loss. Despite the costs, we may stay in these relationships for multiple reasons.

•You don’t think you can find anything better.

•You think things will eventually improve.

•You are compelled to stick with the status quo.

•You’re ignoring the long-term costs of the relationship.

Primadonnagirl · 18/08/2014 21:05

I'm the child of an alcoholic. Alcohol comes before me and the rest of the family and as much as I love my Dad it has ruined our family life. Doesn't matter how many presentse he brings the kids, how nice he is etc. the very fact he won't go to Aa means he's made his choice Im afraid.

CatKisser · 18/08/2014 21:05

The thing is, if you were to get back with him, imagine how horrific you'd feel if when a further violent incident occurred toward your kids, knowing it could have been avoided.

He's not ready to stop drinking which means currently alcohol is a higher priority than you or the children.

It's just not worth it.

thestamp · 18/08/2014 21:06

You would be a fool, bordering on a child abuser, to take him back. Sorry.

Original poster
LalaDipsey · 18/08/2014 21:07

Ok, thoughts are this. Relationship was not shitty for 20 yrs I would say was shitty approx once a year for 10yrs and then IF happened and dc happened. Who am I kidding? Pretty much as soon as dd was born he wasn't v nice. But he could be. From time to time, and now I'm here. I've been a single mum for 2yrs to an elder one and toddler twins and doing everything is flipping hard sometimes. I don't crave a partner. It's just sometimes when E xH hugs me when he's here it starts something, just a liking to being hugged I think.

OP posts:
Dirtybadger · 18/08/2014 21:11

I'm glad that he's doing better. Perhaps he will be able to maintain himself as a relatively respectable father (for 2 hours a week) with the current arrangement.

I haven't read your previous post(s?) but given that he hasn't addressed his drinking it's highly unlikely he will be any more of a positive influence upon the children if "let loose" with them for more than a couple of hours a week.
Keep your distance and hope he keeps it up.

It's not unlikely he'll relapse into his former self anyway, but if he does manage to keep up "the good work" (if you could call it that) be thankful you managed to come to an agreement which allowed this rather than regretful that you didn't push for more. More would be worse, not better.

CatKisser · 18/08/2014 21:11

Can I ask if you've been sleeping with him? I know that sounds horribly nosey but it does hinder your judgement, IMO.
Nothing at all wrong with wanting closeness, intimacy, etc. but there are thousands of men out there who can give you that who DONT get violent to children or bully their partners. You really owe it to your kids to put them first and keep this alcoholic bully away from them, where possible.

Original poster
LalaDipsey · 18/08/2014 21:14

Attila. Thankyou. You always speak a lot of sense.
Stamp. A child abuser?! Really? You would consider a mum who has never left their children alone with anyone including their father apart from her own mother (& recently some nursery hours and school) and who has guarded those children and promised them safety above all else and who monitors all contact and who NEVER leaves them alone with their father apart from having a wee a child abuser? Come on?! Grow up. Things can be complex and wanting to talk things through doesn't remotely make me an abuser.

OP posts:
Original poster
LalaDipsey · 18/08/2014 21:15

No, ironically I haven't had sex since before DTs were conceived... They're IVF and I think it was a month or so before starting IVF I last slept with ExH.... He didn't want sex whilst I was pg so.....

OP posts:
Jux · 18/08/2014 21:21

Lala, I remember your old threads. Please don't follow this feeling. There is only 'something there' because he is only with you for a couple of hours a week.

If you get back together, you will be right back where you were when you were posting those threads 2 years ago.

Single parenthood is hard - not all the time, but it is hard. It is even harder when you're sharing parenthood with someone who doesn't parent, who spends a lot of his time drinking and drunk, and who puts the children's safety waaaay down in their priorities.

Honestly, you're better off with him playing Disney Dad for a very short time each week, though it's not great from your pov; but I promise that from the children's pov that you all living together would ultimately be much much much worse.

thestamp · 18/08/2014 21:22

I think a mother who has seen her partner physically assault her very small children, has then split up with him, and then taken him back because he's "been good" lately, to be bordering on a child abuser, yes.

i'm pretty sure that SS/police would say the same.

did you think I was calling you a child abuser? you haven't taken him back, have you? if you have, then yes, I suppose that applies to you.

Original poster
LalaDipsey · 18/08/2014 21:27

Hi Jux. You are talking absolute sense. It is hard sometimes. DD asked why daddy can't be here all the time and she's now forgotten the shouting and the throwing. She asked last night why I wouldn't let him come more. I couldn't tell her that he doesn't tend to ask to come more... Did she remember when he lived here he was very shouty? And she said no,
Stamp. Thanks for contributing but I haven't taken him back, no. And your responses aren't very helpful. I am most definitely not a child abuser and won't bother replying to you again.

OP posts:
Twinklestein · 18/08/2014 21:28

Getting back with an alcoholic who's been violent to the children is a terrible idea OP, and you know it.

It's only desperation making you contemplate it.

It could result in harm to the children and your losing them completely.

SnowPetrel · 18/08/2014 21:28

He was violent to your children.

That is inexcusable.

Don't have him back, ever.

thestamp · 18/08/2014 21:34

I didn't think you had taken him back, even in my initial post, and I didn't think you were an abuser.

I was simply saying that if you did give in to your feelings (it seemed to me that you were not going to, but it also seemed there was a possibility in your mind), and take him back, you would be exposing the children to another assault. And exposing children to assault is a crime. Perhaps that is harsh, but it is the truth.

All the best, and I hope your feelings towards your ex pass soon.

Original poster
LalaDipsey · 18/08/2014 21:37

I know it makes me sound stupid and I promise I'm not.. The violence consisted of 1x shaking DTS whilst drunk and shouting 'shut the fuck up you little fuckwit' and 1x throwing a plastic light changer thing across the room when DTs were 6mths old and it hitting DTD on the head and bruising her head and cutting her lip slightly. There's no excuse is there? Just writing it makes me feel sick. I couldn't tell anyone for months as I felt so sick. Writing it down again is making me cry, how could he be so f*cking stupid? How could I? How do you move on people? I'm 40 this year. I've been with ExH since I was 19, I don't know

OP posts:
CatKisser · 18/08/2014 21:39

The details of his actions are absolutely vile.
He committed them while drunk.
He still gets drunk.
Therefore, it WOULD happen again.

Really, really upsetting to read.

RandomMess · 18/08/2014 21:42

Sad hugs after 20 years and everything you have been through together to have your dcs yes it must be incredibly hard to move on and emotionally detach from him completely.

Him visiting you in your home is probably making it even harder for you. Is there anyone else who could supervise his contact with them?

Original poster
LalaDipsey · 18/08/2014 21:51

Thankyou. Unfortunately randommess, the only way it works is for me to supervise. There is no other option and DC are happy with that, I kept thinking over the past 18months that that would change if he ( or I but not that I get out to meet anyone!) met a new partner (not that I would let the children off with someone else but that it might hinder him wanting to see them) but he hasn't, so he has come every week, let's himself into the house, spends 2, sometimes 3, hours with us, then leaves again. Every bit of research I've done says it's better the children see their father, and they love seeing him, and they're safe as I'm here. It's just becoming a bit odd now. He's wanting more I think and I want normality and a family but it's not with him, but in a way it's not his fault, his father was a violent alcoholic and he hasn't any other role model and he hasn't chosen the path of turning his back and seeking another way which he could have.. Instead we are here and he has been not so good.. But I guess what I'm saying is that in a way I know he wants to be better, to beat his past, but he can't. So I can't risk the children, ..

OP posts:
FunkyBoldRibena · 18/08/2014 21:55

There IS no excuse, no.

Most people when drunk are just like they are when sober, just a little more huggy or silly. When they stat to become abusive, nasty, evil; then that's the real person coming out. The rest is the act.

You move on because you just do. Life moves on. People move on. You meet new people and make new friends. He hasn't spent an awful lot of time with or enquiring after his kids. I can't say he sounds a charmer to be honest.

pregnantpause · 18/08/2014 22:03

But he hasn't changed. You see him for three hours a week- as you said he wasn't 'very nice' some of the time, but he was probably always nice for at least three of the 168 hours in a week.

He was and is an abuser. Had he changed he would be working to 'beat his past' by spending time with his children, working towards independent care of them, and working on himself to improve- aa/ counselling/ etc he's not. Just putting a smile on his face for three hours a week is not change.

I'm sorry- you have to detach from the idea of the life you thought you could have had with him- it just won't happen. He's not capable of giving you that life.

Good luck no matter what you do x

Whocansay · 18/08/2014 22:07

This man talks a good game, but actually he chooses to do nothing because he doesn't want to. Lots of us on here had backgrounds with less than perfect parents, but we choose not to be like them. His past does not excuse what he did.

I know you haven't liked some of the responses on here, but honestly, if you read this about someone else wouldn't you be horrified? If you took him back you would knowingly be putting your children in harms's way. How would you feel if he hurts them again, once you'd taken him back?

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