"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

It's July 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting

Thank you all! Good, I agree wholeheartedly, I've said to my DH that, as satisfying as a bit confrontation/argument might be, the best way is to cut her drama off at the roots and starve it of oxygen.

I'm going to continue as we are - not speaking, which wasn't instigated by me! - and see how it goes. I do feel quite strongly that this is the end of the line for tolerating her anymore. But then it gets dark, and I get sentimental, and I waver!

Actively refusing to play the game any more by cutting off a source of narcissistic supply is far more satisfying to do than ever confronting a narcissist. Living well is the best revenge here.

There is no room for sentiment when it comes to a narcissist so try not to waiver. She after all told your 8 week old DD to shut up!. That alone is enough to maintain a no contact position.

Again if you find her too difficult for you to deal with, its the same deal for your both vulnerable and defenceless child.

What you may find going forward is the enlistment of what are known as "winged monkeys"; relatives or friends of hers who will talk to you. They have been dragged into this by your mother to try and scare you back into her dysfunctional web. Resist all such approaches from such people. She may also develop a previously unknown health scare or problem, again this is part of their power and control mechanisms.

You sound at a very similar junction with a very similar mother . I think ignoring (but actively iyswim) is a good plan. If she gets in touch I would state that you want space from her and do not wish to talk.
There are sure to be "winged monkeys" and other tricks as she will be furious that you are "defying" her.
Good luck and post here as much as you want.
xx

I'll post a bit later about my own nutty mother if I have time. It's a non teaching day for me but I have some freelance work in, but there's stuff I'd like to waffle about, so maybe later I'll get a chance to post.
How's everyone? Attila? Meerka? Hissy?

I'm ... okay. I was handling the weird, sad and unpleasant families ok before the pregnancy but towards the end of it and since then it's all been at the forefront of my mind. It's thrown me a bit off balance. it keeps coming back to me, all the various bits.

perfectstorm posted somethign recently that resonates and I keep thinking about:

I will never fathom why blood alone should mean you're forced to let people hurt you over and over again, as long as they aren't physically or sexually abusive. It makes no sense. Life is too short to let bad/damaged people screw with you, no matter who they are, unless they are your own kids. You don't owe anyone else your unconditional love and time.

I'll add adoptive family to that, but she nutshells it so well.

Yes, and as Hissy says, family should be held up to an even higher standard, the people who love us should treat us better than they treat others. Or as I find myself thinking often: "I don't have to put up with this shit".

I also think it's perfectly natural for this all to be at the forefront of your mind around the time of pg and birth. My therpaist said he thinks that the first year or so after a woman has a baby she is quite emotionally vulnerable and I think that's true.

yeah ... makes sense.

on the other hand the Pipsqueak is doing brilliantly and our older son is beginnign to learn that his tantrums don't get anywhere ... all good stuff really =)

So, spoke to Dbro last night as he'd spoken to DM. What a load of old bollocks that woman spouts. She has apparently read the e mail I sent my uncle but instead of being horrified at what she'd done (like my aunt seemed to think she would be) she told Dbro it was "character assassination". Claims to still not know what she did wrong, despite having read a list basically of why. This is why we are NC, because she lives on another planet entirely.
Apparently as well my uncle had said to her why not go to the UK now and rent instead of waiting for the house to sell and she said petulantly "But I don't WANT to rent". She is so totally self centred it really takes my breath away. I really have no idea who this woman is.
Third counselling session tomorrow.

Attila and Good thank you. She's done the 'mysterious health scare' to death - so I'm pretty well prepared for that.

My DF will probably be a bit of a winged monkey, as he always tried to keep the peace, although he did say the other day that he was relieved to be free of her, so we shall see!
DSis has experienced even more of the stalking/controlling than I have, so I think she won't NC me, but again, who knows!

Meerka I agree, having a baby makes you vulnerable - physically, and mentally, so it's not surprising you feel that way. Hope you're okay.

Ugh. How horrible good.

I'm afraid that you can no longer trust your uncle though. Tbh I think it's a betrayal of trust that he forwarded the email to her. He meant it well but given that his other sister is even worse than your mother, he should have known better.

I wouldn't discuss yoru mother at all with him any more under any circumstances.

I will say one thing. Your mother is crazy nuts. But she did manage to bring up a lovely daughter and from the sound of it, a sane and decent son. (She's obviously got a lot lot worse in the last years and you're absolutely right to go NC to protect your husband, marriage and children tho. !)

Am ok humpty, more or less. Husband is a star. I do find the complex and sad family thing tends to make me feel apart from other people though; very different experience from more normal stable families.

I said he could send her what he liked as it would make no difference to anything. My aunt at least obviously thought reading it would make DM see the error of her ways. Ha ha ha! Doesn't she know DM is NEVER WRONG? I haven't heard from him since and don't expect to. Yes, I think my mum is just totally and utterly batshit crazy. Thanks for being nice :) I often say to Dbro that we are surprisingly sane.

Oh fair enough then :)

Good you are def surprisingly sane! Your DM does sound deranged, frankly. Well done for resisting the winged monkey so well.

goodto how is your son now? you wrote a few times that his behaviour deteriorated oddly after he'd been playing with Grandma. Has that improved?

Hi, Meerka, yes I was talking to the therapist about that! Things are much much calmer in general. It wasn't really DS's behaviour ever, it was him reacting to my stress and then me reacting to him pushing my buttons. I think I was "absent" emotionally a lot actually as there was so much shit hovering over my head like a black cloud and so much of my brain was taken up being annoyed with her. I think he picked up on my moods and annoyance and then pushed to get a reaction as it made him feel insecure. Then, cos I was in a bad mood, I blew up.
Now I'm more stable he doesn't push and even if he does I don't blow up. Does that make sense? I think he was particularly bad when we saw her as he picked up on the tension. I suppose it helps that I'm not out til 10pm 4 nights a week, but he was difficult in the summer, so it's not really that. I think I'm happier and so that permeates through to him.
It's not been until NC that I've really realised the extent of her toxic effects on me.

yes, it makes a lot of sense. it sounds like things are twenty times better between you and him and you feel so much more at peace :)

NC has, on the whole, been a breath of fresh air. The peace and quiet is lovely. Not having to deal with her shit and the whinging is great. It's not easy either, it dredges up plenty of shit (hence, therapy) but on the whole it's so much better, I feel freer.

Are any of you watching Long Lost Family?

Good you sound so happy and confident, it's lovely. Glad to hear the NC good effects are permeating your DS's life as well as yours.

Well, nothing from my D M in a week now. I haven't done anything actively to go NC, but I don't feel the usual nagging itch of 'I should call her, it'll be worse if I keep leaving it', so I'm going with it for now. I have two problems though, and would appreciate advice:

1. my DSis has birthday present for me, from M. Do I ask her to return them, or get them from her, and return myself? I don't see DSis often, and didn't see her on my birthday, so it's not urgent, but I want to be prepared! Instinct says to return them to M, but I don't want this to be a big flouncy 'I HATE you' gesture.

1. M has money for me (well, for DD really), from my great aunt. She told me to spend the amount, then she'd give it to me (). I've spent about half. I want the money, as G-A intended it for DD. Can I email and ask? I guess I could phone G-A, but we rarely speak, and I don't want to drag her into why I can't just get the money off M as she (G-A) intended originally. Why G-A didn't just send me the money is a mystery, but she didn't...

Hmmm, I suppose it depends how much you want to be NC and how permanent you see it as being. And also whether you want a chance to tell her why you want to be NC or whether you want to just not speak to her again.
Could you tell your Sis that you have fallen out with your mum and don't want the present? I agree that sending it back is risking provoking a reaction. I don't know what I'd do. As for the money, can you afford to lose it, to just accept that you've lost the money and won't get reimbursed?

Hi all, sorry for appearing then disappearing again. I have been reading up on these threads and some of the resources. It takes ages! (Or maybe I'm just a slow reader.) I feel embarrassed about my first posts now - I hadn't even read all the way through the introductory post in this thread and now I see that I could just have lifted my posts from that, especially the conversation when I told my DM how I felt about them controlling me. Many of the posts on here have really struck a chord with me, too.

I'm afraid this post is me, me, me so please feel free to ignore - as before, it's just me wanting a safe place to document my thoughts and feelings where hopefully people will understand. I'm going to participate in the Stately Homes properly from now on, honest!

A realisation that has occurred to me since my last post is that my DM absolutely does have to be in control of everything, not just me, i.e. whatever she does, she has to be in charge - even getting herself elected Foreman when she did Jury Service, that kind of thing. So I'm more sure than ever that I'm right about her.

I've taken on board all your advice but I'm still planning to move in with DM for a while. It'll probably give you all a chance to say "I told you so!" in a few months' time but I am hoping it will work out OK. I know I shouldn't feel like this, but I do feel that I owe it to her to at least try. I just hope that if I'm firm and assertive but non-confrontational, we will get along OK. We got on really well during my recent visit, although we talked a bit about money and I mentioned some of their financial controlling earlier in my life and she claimed it was all my DF's doing and she didn't even know about half of it. I thought she did know, although thinking back, it was my DF whom I remember telling me I couldn't have access to funds that were legally mine (long story) so it may be true. Anyway, she agreed that he was financially controlling so maybe if she blames DF for everything then she won't have an excuse for it now.

I've got an exit strategy (to rent somewhere) if things get too difficult.

GoodtoBetter, I've been reading your journey and you've come such a long way! Your mum is a total nightmare and I'm so pleased that you're breaking away, for the sake of your DH, children and your own sanity! Well done.

humpty im afraid that yes, you might have lost the money. That money is going to be such a very, very good weopon for your mother to use.

I think you have a choice, either accept you've lost the money (and ignore the presents; just plain ignore them) or get in touch with your mother, thank her for the presents and then put up with the shit she'll throw at you.

Absolute best case you get back in touch, she gives you the money and you can quietly without fuss stop returning her calls so often, in fact less and less as time goes on and go NC that way. But it sounds to me that you're at a point in your life where this the natural time to go NC. If you choose to do that, then tell yoru sister you don't want the presents. She'll probalby have to give them you anyway so you can just chuck em to a charity shop and don't acknowledge them in any way.

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bride best of luck. I think you're going to have to be very, very strong and that is incredibly hard to do 24/7 - it's going to be an enormous strain- but at least you do have the escape route planned.

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Goodto, I can't bear to watch Long Lost families. er - not to be self pitying but er - i'm aware that of my ridiculous number of parents, only my adoptive mother and my MIL actually wanted/want me. Biological father doesn't, foster parents didn't, biological mother couldn't, adoptive father doesn't, stepfathers aren't that fussed, stepmother most certainly doesn't, other stepmother doesn't ... etc etc you get the picture. Long Lost Families kind of jabs a nerve heh.

Dear me, MN is my therapy!

I can totally see that Meerka and I wasn't sure if I would watch it and how it would make me feel, but actually I quite enjoyed it. I did get a bit of a stab of urgh, I don't actually really have any family now except Dbro, but it was nice to see people being happy when they found each other. It was nice to see people make the most of each other once they were reunited instead of treating other like crap. It was nice to watch a happy ending even if I can't have it with my own mum, iyswim.
Bride, ha! You have done well if you've read through my epic amount of posts about my mother...it has been a long haul. I totally agree with Meerka. If you feel NC is right for you now then ignore the presents and just chalk the money up as lost, because anything else is going to provoke another round of drama as far as I can see it.