"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

It's July 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting

I would not move in with her at all. What she is "suggesting" now re the choir could well be the thin end of a wedge. I would agree with Meerka that this is a high risk strategy.

I would flat share or rent instead of moving in with your mother given the ways she has been as well.

Maintain and keep reinforcing your own boundaries here with regards to your mother. Distance both physical and emotional is good and you do not need her approval any more. You're an adult; she should really not take it as a given that you move in with her and should never have suggested such a thing to you. There are so many ways this could all go wrong.

Having controlling parents is not a pathetic problem at all; its highly damaging to the person i.e. you on the receiving end and it has indeed harmed you. Controlling behaviour is abusive behaviour. They did not have to hit you to hurt you, they used words against you instead.

I would suggest you read "If you had controlling parents" written by Dan Neuharth if you have not already done so as this could well help you going forward.

I think you should bite the bullet and tell her you are going to rent. I speak from bitter experience of someone who moved in with their extremely controlling mother. It's her house, so you're immediately on the back foot on that count. If she's anything like my mother she'll start treating you like you are 12 again, in fact it sounds like she's beginning to with the suggestions of what you should do. Then it'll be something else she thinks you should or shouldn't do. It will end in tears, but you'll be stuck in her house. Better some tears now but then you have the space of a rented place and then your own house. If she reacts badly to your change of plans then that tells you what you need to know, I think.
I know I am biased and your mother is not my mother, but PLEASE DON'T LIVE WITH HER!!!!!

Yes, Attila is right, it is not a pathetic problem at all, it shapes who you are for the rest of your life. It's a form of abuse, as insidious as any other. As she rightly says, there are so many ways this can go wrong. With people like this you need SPACE, emotionally and physically.
Thanks for the book recommendation, Attila, I've found it on kindle, but it's quite expensive for a kindle book, why do you think it's particularly good before I click to buy?

Can you purchase the paperback version, that costs £8.60.

I've read some of it (with relation to my DHs parents) and is full of stories gathered from his own interviews. I found it very useful and not at all patronising towards the reader. It also helps the reader to further recognise unhealthy patterns.

The kindle costs about that much, just I usually only spend about 99p on kindle books, ha ha ha! Just wondered if it was worth it before shelling out. Maybe not seeing as I'm having the therapy now too. Although I suppose I could buy it on kindle, read a bit and then return it if it's not really applicable.
Thanks.

good skilled therapy helps a lot but the therapist only comes from one angle, or can only actually tell you so much. seeing different perspectives from different books can help a lot.

With Toxic Parents, I knew a lot of the stuff from years of intense and sometimes brutal therapy, but the book put things together in a clear way that helped clarify stuff in my mind. Just the different perspective helped.

just a thought.

thebridge - welcome. Echoing what everyone else says - controlling behaviour is abusive and not a pathetic problem. Listen to your alarm bells, make your own decisions and get your own space.
Been there, worn the t-shirt. As someone else said, it's the thin end of the wedge.

Thanks everyone for the welcome. Attila , I’ll order that book and will read it with interest, but some of the reviews suggest that if you already know you had controlling parents, it’s not as much help. Would you recommend Toxic Parents as well, which is mentioned by some of the reviewers and Meerka ? GoodtoBetter , I can’t see Controlling Parents available as a Kindle book; do you have a link?

I had some therapy years ago when I was extremely depressed after the break-up of a relationship. All the issues with my parents came out in therapy (they were indirectly responsible for the failure of my relationship.) I spoke to my Mum about it – unfortunately in an angry, accusatory way, as in “You did this to me and you’ve ruined my life!” Of course I should have approached the conversation differently, but I was extremely emotional about it. Mum told me that everything they did was for my own good; I’ve screwed up my own life by not going along with what they wanted (e.g. I dropped out of Uni) and the therapy was just making me selfish and inconsiderate, and looking to blame everyone else for problems of my own making. Somehow she convinced me she was right and, as a result, I stopped the therapy and we never mentioned it again.

I did have a light bulb moment later, though – in response to my rant, Mum said that several of my childhood friends’ parents were more controlling / pushy than mine, and she gave three examples. The light bulb moment was when I realised that friend A emigrated to Sweden, friend B to the USA, and friend C to Canada; they all put a big distance between themselves and their parents, as soon as they could, which tells its own story.

Last time I visited, my Mum was talking about making a new will, so I reminded her of the time (years ago) when she phoned me AT WORK to tell me she was disinheriting me unless I stopped seeing a man she didn’t approve of. She said “I don’t think I ever did that.” “Yes, you did, Mum.” “Well I don’t remember it.”

The thing is, in recent years we have got a really good relationship and she seems to appreciate me more, rather than being critical all the time. I suppose there’s a risk that will be spoiled if I move in with her; but hopefully it will only be short term. I think I need an escape plan - the commute is too much, I need to rent somewhere closer to work...

I do not think that "controlling parents" is available on the Kindle. Toxic Parents is also worth a read in any case.

A pity you dropped the therapy; it was opening your eyes as to what they were really like as parents. Would you reconsider doing this again and importantly without saying a word to your mother about that?.

Your mother I feel gave the usual responses uttered by what are considered to be toxic parents and your life is your own to lead, not theirs to take control over. Same with her threat of disinheritance and her subsequent denial of ever having said that. You know full well she said this.

She has likely not fundamentally altered in terms of her overall personality; I would tread very carefully with regards to any future dealings you have with this person. Do not move into her home for a start!. You need distance both physical and mental from her.

Your Dad no longer being around may have tempered her a bit now but such people rarely if ever give up controlling their what they see as "errant" offspring or wanting to control at all easily.

Good evening everyone. Can I join you all? Don't know where to start, other than to say I'm NC with my mother. I had a difficult phone call from a grandparent this week, and feeling like I've plunged back down to a very dark place.

Feeling lost and grasping for answers, which is how I found my way here. I'm going to start reading through the thread now and might find something more contrucive to post!

Yes, of course you can join, sunflowers. Welcome, and post as much or as little as you like.

Hold on, even if it's by your fingernails, from that dark place. Remember, distance can be a lifesaver.

It is on kindle but on Amazon.es (spain). Sorry.
www.amazon.es/If-You-Had-Controlling-Parents-ebook/dp/B000TU16PY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1411678252&sr=8-1&keywords=if+you+had+controlling+parents

Thanks. I'm feeling ashamed again. Ashamed that for some reason I'm unable to get on with my family. Ashamed of the person they say I am. I'm struggling to break through that shame to find what I want to say on here.

seems to me that you are at the very beginning of your journey to gain clarity of heart .

Sometimes people can't get on with their family because the family is just too awful. Sometimes it's the people who get out, who the rest hate, who are the healthiest.

Some families make one person the Bad One because they can't bear to think of themselves as less than perfect. They're usually the ones that are way, way, way less than perfect.

Please be gentle with yourself. Take all the time you need. We're ready to listen when you are ready.

I hate the way they make you feel like it's all your fault or you're being unreasonable.

It's my DS's birthday today and my DM texted last night saying she was going to come round. I asked that she didn't, and to leave card/present with my DSis to pass on. She then went onto to say how I need to tell DS that it was me that has stopped her seeing him! This is a woman who lives 5 mins from us and hasn't seen my DS since march!! In last month I have asked her to give me space and she used this as excuse as to why she hasn't seen DS. I commented that I haven't stopped her/not allowed her to see in DS in months previously yet she made no attempts! Says also she won't come round if not made to feel welcome!!

She leaves me feeling like I'm being the bitch, but I'm not am I?

Anyone who doesn't contact her grandson for what, six months and then blames you after you ask for space for 4 weeks is being unreasonable.

Stand your ground. It doesn't sound like you're being a bitch to me, but if you are really not sure if you're being a bitch or not, ask an honest and trusted friend, ideally one who knows her. Or your partner. Even so, it sounds like your mother is playing games.

sunflowerblue,

Am sorry you are feeling like that but I would say to you that its not you but them. Keep posting on here too when you are ready.

Worryworker,

Your mother seems to have no concept of boundaries whatsoever and certainly does not seem to understand or want to understand the word no. She is completely disregarding you here, its all me, me and me with your mother.

If she is narcissistic in terms of personality its not possible to have any sort of relationship with such a person.

If you are NC with her then I would actually consider whether you want your child to have anything from his nan at all given her awful behaviour towards you as his mum. Gifts from such people anyway are often used as a way of further obligating others.

Thanks Attila. It's like I've had some realisation in past 6 months of my mums behaviour. Before I dismissed it or downplayed it. Therapist spoke of this being a protective factor/coping strategy I used.

Yes she is completely disregarding me and how I'm feeling. When I text earlier to reiterate the point I didn't want her coming round as mentally I am not good at mo, she replied by saying 'join the club'! No acknowledgement of how I'm struggling at mo. My feelings are ignored or dismissed and when confronted she'll always pass the blame and play the victim. She's also good at making me feel guilty and I then start questioning if it's me being unreasonable.

I'm hoping therapy will help me to make sense of my mixed up emotions and how I can move forward in my relationship with her (whether that be NC indefinitely).

Bookmarking

Hi everyone. Hope you're all having a nice Sunday.

A question for anyone who is NC with a parent and has small children. DS hasn't asked about DM much at all since NC started a month ago (and DD not at all). Maybe once or twice. He's just asked me now, "When are we seeing Granny?". I just said I didn't know. Is this OK? If she does actually leave the country, what do I say...she's gone to live somewhere else. How do I explain why? If he asks if we will see her again or visit, do I just say I don't know?
He's six and a half.

I dealt with our older son (6) and a situation with a half-sister who suddenly decided I was all that was awful (pretty startling!) by saying that unfortunately she had said some very mean things and that until she was willing to sit down together and talk things out and say sorry somewhere along the way, that we couldn't be in contact.

It's better to make up with people if you can, but if people are being mean and won't change then eventually you can't keep letting them speak to you like that. (I'm hoping he learns to stick up for himself sooner than I did).

I don't know if that's the right way. My other peacemaker half sister says that it would have been better to say nothing. I'm uncomfortable with that in this circumstance because it feels like the sort of brushing everything under the carpet that allows people to get away with appalling behaviour. But maybe it's a good way, I just don't know. If you choose that way, then saying "i don't know" may be better.

I see what you mean and I guess there's no right way. I suppose if we aren't going to be in contact in the long run maybe I don't know is better. I kind of want to protect him from the idea that someone he loves has been horrible to me iyswim. Maybe that's naive. I think I'll maybe bring it up with therapist at some point and stick to I don't know for now. To be fair he doesn't seem that fussed.

it's a good idea to talk it over with the therapist. How to explain it to the children is kind of central to the whole situation really because well, it is hard to go NC and it affects everyone. Even when it's for the best.