"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

It's July 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting

I've told him he needs counselling, he has had in the past through his work but that was over something totally irrelevant (an ex girlfriend).
How would I go about finding a counsellor that isn't all about keeping families together regardless of how toxic they may be?
Funnily enough, Ive done a counselling course myself, I'm due to go back next year. Hilarious!

Bam, I've done counselling too,
haha!

I think Relate might be a good idea. I had a blip late last year and needed help so I contacted them online and booked a phone session. I initially called to talk about me and him but she went back through my insecurities which all pointed at my mother. That was the first time I actually thought, 'hang on, it's not my fault'. I had a couple of sessions which helped me enormously. Have a look at their website x

I'm sure that is illegal, BamBam. She should be reported to whatever professional body she's a member of for that. And yes, it does show the hold she has over him that he was defending himself rather than giving her a rocket.

Is is too late to take some action re that?

All together, it doesn't look good for moving near them. Why not move 25 miles away? You said that's an option, I think?

bam look up the BACP. I think there is another professional body too if you don't find anyone through them.

Speak to them on the phone. Have a good conversation and try to judge their views on keeping families together. Ask their experience generally and what sort of clients they work with.

When I was looking for a therapist, I chose one who worked with severely dysfunctional families and criminals. Mainly because I knew they would 1) believe me (people who haven't really been there with bad families often don't really see or believe how bad it can be) and 2) not be shocked and 3) have the experience to handle anything. Not saying you have to go that far but someone who is experienced would be good.

Also don't be afraid to change therapists if necessary until your DP finds one he clicks with. Some people work best with purely supportive therapists, some work best with therapists that push them a bit (im in the latter category).

It must be illegal! It was 7 years ago though! But seriously, that must be wrong. I can't believe it, what happened to patient confidentiality?!
I was more shocked like you say that dp didn't lay into her for it, but felt the need to justify himself or that Fil wasn't fuming with her for doing something so blatantly wrong and disrespectful.
If we moved that far away I wouldn't be able to work. My cousin looks after dd for me and funnily enough lives about 5 mins away from In laws.
I kind of want to work, I like working. It would also remove any sort of support we have from other family members which isn't that much a sit is (other than my cousin, aunty and uncle) who my mil is desperately trying to make friends with.

No, am not frustrated with you at all BamBam:).

Be wary though when narcs calm down or start acting "normal"; they are generally softening you up before doing something really nasty.

I would not buy a house anywhere near these people under any circumstances!. Your partner is still not strong enough to stand up to his parents (and I do wonder if he ever will be free of them at all, perhaps not) and will likely cave at the first shot they fling across the bows.

Bear this in mind as well. Schools and their overall ethos change over the years; what is in a "good" area now may well not be the case a couple of years down the line. Also I think your child is still very young and won't be starting formal school for a few years yet. I would seriously look at other residential areas.

Would certainly agree with Meerka's suggestion to call BACP and to change therapist as or when necessary (a person needs to be able to work with a therapist along with finding someone who has no bias about keeping families together despite the presence of mistreatment).

I find it hard to keep up on here with a 3 week old! I've had a quick read through, and it does seem that other people's parents really do make much more effort than mine, which has made me realise I am just being a door mat.

I've sent my Dad an email saying it's unacceptable that they haven't even sent a card since the birth of their Grandchild... (he had the audacity to ask where his bday card was...) I've let rip about the fact they've given up parenting me since I left home at 18, and it's not on anymore. This is the first time I have ever stuck up for myself, I'm 28, and I'm a bit scared, tummy has butterflies. But I can't be a mug anymore.

My Mum has even just deleted me on Facebook, no idea why!!! (this happened before I sent the email). Why are they so cruel?!

Oh and Bam that is illegal! Surely it's on a need to know basis ref: medical records! (In my line of work I work a lot with data protection and if I were to go rooting around for info I didn't need for work, I would be in a lot of trouble)

Oh (sorry just had a chance to have a proper catch up) another my parents haven't given a shit since any of us less home for uni/jobs, and I have just been putting up with it, until I had my son. I am now conscious of the fact his other set of Grandparents are brilliant and my son doesn't deserve their lack of care and for that matter neither do I.

But I am the same as you, the birth of my own child was the catalyst for me to confront my parents.

deleted you on facebook? oookay I keep well away from fazebook myself but even I know that's pretty weird.

etienne good for standing up for yourself. The shit might hit the fan now, you know that? But stand strong. YOu're doing something that is very much justified.

moochops - in haste - the thing about the moving car. My biol. mother did this (on the motorway no less).

It is a very hostile and angry act.

hello toria. will reply later, am cooking. But my first reaction was that you are a lovely gentle person and it's extremely unlikely you will mother your lovely daughter like she mothered you - because you don't want to. There -are- dangers on the way if you have had a bad template growing up. But there is also a great deal of hope, specially if you know there is a danger.

Can't believe I'm stressing about Xmas already but I've just met up with dps grandparents (fils side) and they've informed me that (for the first time since dp was little) that mil has invited them & her own mother down for Xmas day.
Basically her mum probably only has one Xmas left so now we feel obliged to go round to in laws for Xmas, I think she's done this on purpose as told us we were to spend Xmas with her this year, of which I'm pretty sure she knew we wouldn't.
Dps grandmother also informed me that she invites my mil & fil up to theirs every Xmas but they don't come because my mil "won't leave her home at Xmas, which isn't true because they often go round next door". it's apparent that most of fils family strongly dislike my mil, through little comments many of them have made and the fact my mil doesn't speak to fils sister because apparently fil doesn't bother with his family ever since mil has been about.
This is true, she refuses to go up to see fils family because they don't offer 5* accommodation and food.
Don't know how someone who stops her own partner seeing his family & doesn't bother with her own can demand so much of her son?
And really stuck morally over what to do for Xmas now.
Maybe pop by for a couple of hours? But that means going to theirs and mil will probably ruin Xmas for us all with nasty sly comments and snatching dd off me and dp.
Would I be out of order not to go at all?
Swear she's done this on purpose, apparently she's been asking dps grandparents for months! (She never ever has done this before)

don't fall for it then! you don't have to go anywhere you don't want to. go and see the family you want to see between xmas and NY if that works, but you're right to be cynical.

Would not ever walk into such a lions den and of course you would not be out of order not to attend. Make your own family traditions instead. Do not give into any FOG - fear, obligation, guilt.

Christmas can be emotionally fraught anyway even in the most emotionally healthy and functioning of families let alone dysfunctional ones (this is also why I go on holiday over the Christmas period).

I don't think dp will have the holiday time to take, unless we go for a weekend. Maybe that would work.
I'd feel guilty not going to see dps grandparents when they are just round the corner and have driven 5 hours down to in laws for Xmas though. Guess it's either live with the guilt or go.
Or try and organise a family meal out on Boxing Day? Avoiding in laws house but still seeing the family they have down. Or would that be considered rude as they are in laws guests?
God knows.

I just wanted to say hello. I hope it's ok for me to butt in. I'm going to start reading through all the previous threads tonight.
I won't bore you with all the details but after a lifetime of emtional abuse from my mother I went non contact about 6 months ago. She's really trying to suck me back into her hugely dysfunctional world atm and I'm having to try and be really strong and keep her away but I feel very determined and sure that I'm doing the right thing.
Thank you all for these threads.

Hi calamity you wouldn't be boring anyone.
Well done for being strong enough to make the decision to go no contact.
Post away, many posters can offer good advise & support :)
Stay strong!

I've not posted for a while. Originally posted about my selfish mother who split from my step dad last yr and proceeded to make accusations about him being a paedophile.

Anyway I text her and told her several was ago I wanted no contact as needed to sort things in my head (also started therapy). She appeared to respect this as got no response but a couple of weeks ago I became unwell. DM found out from DB and proceeded to ring me several times and then turn up with big bouquet of flowers, playing the concerned mother. I stupidly 'entertained' her. No mention was made of recent issues, our recent nc and I felt she used me being ill as opportunity to get back in with me IYSWIM. I'm sure she expects me to now just forget about previous stuff! It's left me feeling all confused again and hate how I suddenly feel weak and guilty again.

welcome puffin and calamity and hello again worry

moochops and toria sorry, meant to reply but today has been v busy on little sleep, will be around tomorrow or monday!

scratches head I thought moochops and toria posted, did I have a funny five minutes and imagine it? I can't see any Post Deleted mumsnet comments ...

Tiny bit of wifi, thought I'd check in. lovely relaxing holiday, back home tmrw .

Hello everyone. I posted a thread a while ago about being sucked in by difficult (narc) DM who has been diagnosed with terminal cancer (this is genuine).
She live 100s miles away (flight needed) and I've spent most of the summer with her, tried to make life pleasant, trips out etc. Not surprisingly it's not good enough, I'm criticised daily and really regret becoming too involved now.
I need to go back home for a while, DS is off to University, DH has to go into hospital for a minor op.
DM is enraged that I'm abandoning her
Today she deliberately soiled herself and cried about how she's going to cope alone (carers come in and there is a place at a hospice if she wants).
The needs of me and my family don't register. I'm so angry, part of me doesn't ever want to come back, but I know I won't have the courage to do that.
I feel so envious of people with 'normal' families who don't have to put up with this shit. The Christmas topic on here breaks my heart, I'd love a fun, relaxing time, enjoying all the planning and anticipation. It's always been a minefield for me. DM wants us all to come here for her 'Last Christmas' the thougtht makes me feel sick. Don't know what I'm going to do. I just want to live my own free life without interference or criticism. Is that too much to ask at almost 50 years of age?

Right, taking the plunge to post, after reading this thread for ages.

I have so many positives in my life, yet it's like the 'relationship' with my mother drags me down. Recently, it was my birthday. She gave me a silver bracelet I'd given her 3 years ago. After much consideration, I rang her and told her I was hurt/upset that she had re-gifted it to me. She told me she had included a note explaining why she had returned it to me. (There wasn't a note.) I then had an email saying:

Dear Mantra,
I'm afraid you completely got the wrong end of what I gave you on your B. day.
The tags were on the B. day gifts, not the gold colour pkt.
The note was! together with the necklace & bracelet explaining why I was giving it back to you.
We don't go out socially now for the past few yrs. with (my dad's name) illnesses, only continual & frequent hospitals & doctors surgery, our walks & big shop usually once in 2 or 3 weeks. The rest of the time is looking after (my dad's name) home & gardens.
I have very busy days from early 6am until I go to bed 11pm
I thought it a waste to just having it lying in my jewellery box & didn't want anyone else having it if anything happened to me.
I thought you knew me better than that Mantra, we live & learn.
I have posted the money you asked for your books.
Take care

I didn't ask for any money. Then for the next 3 days I had continual texts/emails asking me if I had received the money yet. In shouty capital letters.

It's not the first time she has re-gifted, she's done it to me and my sisters several times.

When I was about 10, she advised me to stick my fingers down my throat if I ate too much. She also told me to 'take my clothes off and have a good look at myself in the mirror'. (She thought I was fat.) Wasn't allowed a bra until I was 13, in spite of asking for one since I was 12. She has always been careful to take care of her own breasts, wearing a bra to sleep in.

When I was 6, in church, I cuddled up against her. As we were leaving, she said; 'don't do that again, people will think you're a strange child.'

The first time she met my DH, she told him about the man across the road who was trying it on with her all the time. And she described a gyno exam to him. She also enquired as to whether my DH would find me more attractive if I lost some weight. If she doesn't like any photos I send her, she either deletes or photoshops them. I kid you not.

None of my sisters and I have had children. (quelle surprise!) She has tried to manipulate me into reproducing. I keep contact with her to a minimum, I've detached emotionally, but still want contact with my dad, they're still married. Yes, he's been an enabler, but now he's extremely unwell, a debilitating condition, so she is his carer in a way.

There's so much more, but am aware that I've written a bit of a missive. Good to vent.

ifuknow please arrange SS to take over the day to day. you've done nothing wrong. nothing at all. you've done more than she deserves. seriously. focus on your family, your dc, your H.

RubbishMantra ((hug)) I saw the regift thread, didn't realise it was THAT much of a tip of the iceberg :( i'm so sorry.

denial of wrongdoing is the toxic parent's starting point, rewriting history, bullying their version of the truth, typical.

you know the truth, so hang onto it. repeat over and over, your returning the necklace was hurtful, there was no note and you know this. if you can't take responsibility for the things you do, the choices you make, best to keep to yourself until you can.

i'm sorry, but there's no easy way out of this. you need to detach to get some space from her.