"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

It's July 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting

It's not. Just don't know where we would find a house in such a good schooling area for the price we got it at. Will be looking at a pretty big mortgage in comparison to the small one we would have for this house.
when we decided to buy this house in laws were away for most of the year and come back for 3months out of 12. Suddenly their plans have changed and they are staying put.
Eughhh

I have been thinking about how I'm feeling and wondering how to express it in as few words as reasonably possible.

I think I feel cheated - even after 50 years - that I lost my twin. Cheated that my Mother couldn't find in herself to keep loving me after his death. Cheated, for my children, that she would never see them. Cheated, for my Dad, who also lost a son but wasn't allowed to mourn.

Above all Stephen who was cheated by asthma.

hi bambamboom It's impossible to say really without knowing a bit more about your situation and how they behave.

As a general principle though it would depend on 1) what variety of toxic they are and 2) if absolutely necessary would your husband be willing to go LC or NC?

If he's not, then schooling or not I'd be very wary.

Oh BBB how difficult.

I moved 300 miles from my parents, and then they followed me. Now I am beginning to wish that I had stayed in tied accommodation and then moved overseas again. Although not very viable to be honest.

I am slowly processing being LC to NC. I think ripping that initial plaster off is harder than keeping it up for me because I am so much happier and more relaxed that way.

PP1 massive hugs to you.

puddingandpie ... it sounds so sad. such a great gap in all your lives

I'm worried many people have already heard the ins and outs of my wonderful in laws but maybe not, the ones who live In Jersey? (Moving back)
They are very difficult people who I would definitely have told to f*ck off a long time ago if they hadn't have been my in laws and I wasn't so bloody naive to think they may grow some respect for anyone but themselves at some point.

PP1 massive hugs x

I'm back ladies! It was my youngests bday today so she phoned and he answered. Then he passed the phone to me. She comments on his deep voice and where does he get that from? Actually my EA ex so I just said 'I'm not sure'. Then 'oh 13, where has the time gone?' Well I was trying to escape EA ex for most of those but I said, 'I've no idea'. Then she gets a sulky strop on from nowhere says 'bye' and hangs up! My DP and eldest were like 'that was quick, is that it?' Im still clueless. So I can't sleep and am mulling it over along with the nugget from DP that we're probably going to have her at Christmas
He also added that he'll pay the bus fare to USA so brother can have her instead! Jeez. She said she'd call again at the weekend but I've no idea if that's a promise or a threat. I need to be stronger

Sorry for ranting, feeling sorry for myself again x

bambam Im sorry but I dont think I do know ... if you have any links to previous posts I can read up ?

ladywhopostedlast ... :( do you really have to have her at christmas?!? He's not invited her without checking with you first has he?

No Meerka (you keep me sane)! She spent last year at other brothers so I'm assuming it's our turn. She's really pushing the guilt trips lately so I'm waiting on the roundabout way of her inviting herself. Trouble is, if she did then DP would have to pick her up by car and drive her home, his sis and family are visiting his mum Boxing Day from abroad and there is no way I'd take her there. She'd look down on them all and mentally add up things to bitch about to who I have no idea as I usually get it all!

I just wish I wasn't guilty all the time, she's 81 ffs, arghhhhh!!!

Yeah, the guilt is hard .... if you feel you can't go NC could you visit her for an hour on christmas day? She sounds awful but at the same time I can see how it's hard leaving an 81 yo just for your own conscience, however much it'd be a case of 'she made her bed'. A strict hour with a commitment you absolutely can't break after that you just have to leave for. Or is it a long way away?

Guilt is a nasty trick. I mean, fair enough to feel some pity and responsibility for someone who's 81. But them guilt tripping is a slightly different thing and if you can, hold strong against it. She's unpleasant and you're entitled to live your adult life without dancing to the strings of someone who doesn't, when it comes down to it, care for you very much at all. It'd be a wrongness to yoruself and to your partner to let someone like her, mother or not, blight your enjoyment of life. What's it someone said? "half a person's life, and that the best part until 35, is all parents are entitled to". I'd argue that 35 years is way too much to give them - but you're past that marker anyway.

Have you tried therapy? with a skilled therapist? it's not the answer for everyone but it can help a lot for some people.

Btw, I give myself the same lecture on not letting parental game-playing get to me ... still trying to win those battles . It really sucks - my father's a charming heartless shit, but I still feel really bad about myself. I know better, I know that there's no way to earn his approval and that he actively wants to disapprove of me and cut me down. But it still gets to me Fgs. Daddy issues

Argh you poor thing! Know exactly what you mean about 'knowing' but it's the actual 'doing'! She's 70 miles away, so a 3 hour round trip is really not my idea of a fun Xmas! My eldest has seen her give me 'the look' and DP has heard her snotty voice so in reality if she did come I know they'd have my back. After the call my 14 yr old asked what was up with her so I told him that if I EVER went like that, tried to play mind games, sulking or guilt trips then just to fill me full of brandy and push me off a cliff. I don't want them ever to feel obliged because of who I am if that makes sense?

Oh yeah, it really does make sense a lot to me. It really does.

Love you and want to be with you because they like you as well as love you. Not to be obligated. Not to make their lives miserable. So very sad when your child(ren) find you unpleasant and toxic. You've gone really, really wrong somewhere.

meerka
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/a1995567-I-actually-hate-my-mil
We have gone very limited contact with them, we only meet up out, for coffee or to take dd to the park and that seems to work well, however that's easy to do when they have to fly over to see us. I'm pretty scared that when they move back (now in October) that they will return to their old nagging, nothing better to do but to see us and emotionally blackmail when they don't get their way selves.
I was so excited about this house, they always said they had grand plans to travel for 9 months of the year so it made no difference buying a house 10 mins away from theirs and now they've totally ditched this idea and are planning on staying out all year :(
My dp is waiting for his promotion at the beginning of next year and we are hoping to emigrate but that takes a lot of time and they'll just fly over whenever they like but for weeks at a time instead of a couple of hours :/
So fed up of planning my life around these awkward people.

I remember you.

You do not have to plan your life around these toxic people that are his parents (they are plainly not just awkward, that's you being too nice to them again). You still have a choice here and that can be not to involve them in any aspects of your lives. You cancelled your wedding because of them!.

Do not think for one minute that they won't be able to damage your child in your presence because they most certainly will try given any opportunity.

When they move back, they will continue their old nagging and emotionally abusive ways towards you both. There is no evidence to the contrary that suggests otherwise.

You are both going to have to raise your own boundaries a lot higher than they have been; they are still far too low and they will walk all over you.

Ahh Atilla you must be feeling frustrated with me, after the last thread where we pretty much concluded I shouldn't see them and I still have this problem. Sad eh?
They've calmed down a fair bit, kinda. Apart from on weekend whereby mil went crazy lady emotional blackmail because she wasn't allowed dd alone. Which she didn't and we didn't see them as a result. But I'm pretty sure it's because they are abroad and know they're coming back. In worried that dp now has it in his head that he can "handle" is parents behaviour and start a fresh setting boundaries when they are back but he's never done this before and I'm about to buy a house 10 minutes drive away, if he doesn't support me in setting boundaries we are pretty f*cked

Oh & on a positive we are eloping to Denmark and not telling anyone until we return, so still getting married

very short on sleep today bambam but skimmed your thread. They sounds a disaster and Im sorry, but moving close sounds like a disaster. I think that until your fiance can prove in action that he and you together can handle them, your best option by FAR is to stop the house purchase.

Sorry, but the chances of your lives turning into a misery are high.

The thought of not buying our first family home together in an area with good schooling for dd breaks my heart, because of them? Eughh.
But you're right, and that was my fear. What if we do move there and they continue to be a nightmare and dp refuses to tell them where to go.
Serious fml moment going on right now.

ïf"?

it's not "if'.

It's 'when'.

Your husband might or might not be able to put up boundaries. If he doesn't, im sorry but you're fucked. Really deep trouble which can make life miserable for years and years. Unless you leave him. If you have children, it'll be unspeakably worse becuase of the emotions involved.

If he does, it's a long hard fight for him and you both. you might come out the other side stronger, but it's not guarenteed.

the schooling is a big pull yeah. I would be tempted too.

But if you move there, you might want to consider holding off having children until your DP has proved he can put boundaries in place and hold them there. It'll be a lot harder than he thinks, probably.

sorry, im being unvarnished here, too tired to varnish

Problem is we already have a child, it was after having our dd that they encase a major issue, because putting THEM first wasn't possible anymore.
Unless we move away and I mean away 25 miles then we are going to HAVE to move to an area within 3 miles of them as that's where the schooling is good.
I already am fucked to be honest!
No need to varnish. I appreciate the honesty.

Bamx3 you're going to have to lay down ground rules with him indoors! And are they old?

No, they aren't old. Mil is 55 and fil 53.
We avoid their house like the plague because mil feels she can't act whoever she wish and say what she wants. I'm already being nagged about Xmas, which I've told her multiple times we are staying at home.
My dp has OCD and Low Latent Inhibition and be told me last night how his mum (a nurse) was working as bank staff at the surgery dp visited to see his doctor and she found and went through his medical records and sat him down to ask why he didn't tell her he had these problems! He didn't even bring her up on where she found this information or anything because he was "trying to explain himself"
Honestly, made me think of this woman on a whole new level of crazy.
Isn't that illegal? How did she have the cheek to being t up with him considering she shouldn't have even been near his medical records?! She really thinks she can do no wrong.
Sorry, needed to rant about that, it's shocking.

I can't believe she did that! Maybe it would be an idea to get him counselling? Maybe even couples counselling - it's not all about splitting up! It might help him to get stronger. So you'd be able to tackle this better as a couple.