"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

It's July 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting

I'm really sorry to hear your story PuddingandPie1, it's really sad.

I'm glad that you have found some closure.

Hi all! I've used these threads a few times but I've name changed since.

Been NC with my mother for getting on 12 years, my db has been NC for about 7.

She has alienated herself from ALL of her family so speaks to no one. She hasn't tried to contact us once.

I've had a dd (15 months) and I've been thinking lately I want to show her to mother, what for I don't know? I was in a bad place when I left and maybe feel I want to show her how well I've done and her beautiful DGD. Pathetic I know.

There is a tiny bit that thinks she will change. I know she will not. There is a tiny bit that thinks she will be happy, greatfull - she would seem it at first but her involvement in my life would be catastrophic.

I'm sad that she doesn't know (I think she doesn't) know about dd. I'm sad that she is on her own.

Spoke to db about it (who got the brunt of her shit when I left£ and he was dead against the idea and I understand and know why.

Why am I feeling like this

pudding Im so sorry for the loss of your twin brother and the other dimensions of losses that followed on. it wasn't the same but after the death of my adored adoptive mother, she was never mentioned either. it left such an echoing emptiness.

I'm glad you have reached a peace.

Hello anotherchapter. When you have a baby it brings back to mind your own family very strongly. At some level we want our mothers to see our beloved babies and to love them and approve of us ... just to share the wonder and to give us advice and to support us. We want her there.

The very sad reality that some mothers just aren't like that is hard. If you contacted your mother, it would almost certainly be a heartbreaking traversty of a loving experience. At worst she could inflict a lot of longlasting hurt and damage.

Give yourself time and space to be sad. Nothing else can replace a loving mother, but good friends and (if you're lucky enough to have them) good in laws can go a long way. I hope you have some people around you who can be like a bit.

I'm not sending this, just writing it out......

G2B "clearly dislikes me very much and thinks I have been a bad mother". I don't actually, I think she did the best she could but she seems unable to bear the fact that I have (naturally) grown up and chosen a life partner over her. The endless lies about DH make that clear. And be clear that what you are being told are exactly that: outright fabrications. I would argue that the person demonstrating dislike is the person slagging off people and bombarding them with horrible angry messages, rather than the one who refuses to engage. When I switched off my phone the messages were instantly furious, not wondering if I was OK, asking if something was wrong...no, straight in there with the rage. That's not normal, loving behaviour.

I am pleased to read she does not want me to feel stressed, it is a shame that she couldn't take that attitude when I went to the beach, or indeed when I came home, instead of all the phone calls, e mails, voice mails etc

As regards the children, I am not suggesting she dislikes DD or is cruel to her, she just isn't interested in her, as opposed to with DS. "I simply knew DS better because he was in my life daily from his birth till he was nearly five whereas DD was still only a toddler when she left, not talking and not at the stage of being read to." This is just total tosh. She saw them equally once we moved out, by her logic she would always love the elder more but the mere fact of them having existed for longer. Also DD is and has always been far more verbal than DS (in English too) and was being read to from long before we left. I will repeat her voice mail "If you can bring yourself to be honest, tell DS (NOT the GC, DS) he is the light of my life and always will be." But that in some ways is a side issue. The issue is she has behaved appallingly towards me and my family and continues to do so. So, there isn't really any other way but to remove myself from that.

I do appreciate that you want to help fix this, but there is really only one person who can do that and she is once again refusing to engage in anything other than denials. There is no apology, no acceptance of being wrong, of having created and driven this from the start, just lies and denials. It's not that I don't want a loving, mutually supportive relationship, it's that SHE doesn't. What she says and what she does are very different things.

If you wish to forward her this message or any others that is up to you, but be under no illusions that she will read it and all will be well again, it is clear she sees herself entirely as the wronged party. And this is why we are in the position we are in, because there is nowhere else to go really. For my part I don't think it is useful to discuss this any further, I have explained and I can do no more.

pudding I was so sorry to hear about your childhood and the loss of your brother, Stephen. What a lifetime of sadness.

Tried to post last night but the site was down for ages.

Anyway... In the absence of a medal emoticon, here's and for etienne and Meerka - and everyone, really. :)

etienne, don't worry, the counselling offer was over six years ago now and I didn't go along with it. In fact I haven't spoken to them at all since very shortly after that time, also over six years now.

Yes, I have a sibling, an older brother. He was/is completely complicit with my parents in the abuse/denial. I'm NC with him too. I don't blame him in some ways for what happened when we were children because obviously he too was a child, and subject to the utterly warped family dynamic we grew up with, but I do very much blame him for his shameful attitude and behaviour as an adult.

Attila I couldn't agree more with your post re mediation. Spot on. Every word.

Meerka, I feel the same way about people thinking the best of everybody. It's denial, once again. I may have said this before, but some time back, after one of the dreadful grooming gang cases, I saw a senior social worker being interviewed about it on TV. She apologised for their inaction, and said that basically they just couldn't believe things were that bad.

Denial, pure and simple. And yes, the result of that was to condone and enable terrible cruelty to those vulnerable young girls, many of whom suffered far, far more than they would have done if the evil being perpetrated by those men had been recognised as soon as the girls started trying to report it.

Pudding your story resonated deeply with me. How awful for you that losing your twin meant you also lost your mother.

Good good luck with dealing with the email - I know you're just writing out here for now, hope it helps, and I hope it doesn't eat into your holiday!

Thanks, Talkin. Getting ready to go now....had a flat but DH has changed it and taken the dog to the kennels. Leaving for the airport in a bit. I'm going to try to switch off for a week. DM always does this, always tries to sabotage me. When I went back to work, every time I go on holiday. When we lived there it got to the point where we couldn't even go on holiday as she wouldn't come (and the one time she came she whinged the entire time) but didn't want us to go anywhere either as she "couldn't manage on her own". That's about the closest I came to depression, living with her being depressive or aggressive and not being able to even go away for the weekend without a major to-do and guilt and having to phone her every day. Gah.
Glad to get out of that. Can't believe I put up with it for so long.
Have a lovely week everyone, I'll have a quick read if I have any wifi once I'm out of the country.

xxxx

Have a really great time, good :)

Good I hope you have a fabulous and very relaxing time.

Pudding Massive hugs...it must be very hard x

I might not post this, I might just write and delete. I don't know because at the moment my stomach is in knots again and I feel like I am weak.

My Mum has always been selfish, and probably controlling.

I am an only child. I was always the apple of my Dads eye. Mum hated that and when I was growing up I remember hearing frequent arguments about me. Dad normally sticking up for me and Mum shouting the odds - she even packed her bags once but Dad begged her to stay unfortunately. Over the years Dad covered up silly little things that I did that Mum would have gone nuclear over.

At 12 Dad retired from his first career and took a job that paid almost half of what he was originally earning, although he also had a half pension from his previous job. Mum worked. I distinctly remember her telling us we had to tighten our belts and then coming home every day with a high street clothes shop bag. When I asked her about it she belted me with a spoon.

When I was 14 I ran away with a friend. We ended up at some guy's place and I ended up getting raped. When I finally told her that I had been raped she booked me an appointment at a GUM unit 40 miles away and booked me train tickets so no-one would know what had happened because she didn't want to be embarrassed. When I finally got the all clear for HIV 3 months later she didn't say a word, not even a look of relief on her face. Dad bought me roses.

A while later I tried to kill myself. In the hospital all she did was have a go at me for being an attention seeker. Dad said nothing to me.

I left home a week after I finished my GCSE's to start work with tied accommodation. At the time there were no mobile phones so I could only speak to my parents once a week. It was liberating. I thoroughly enjoyed my time there, but eventually I had to leave and move back to my parents because of a mix up with housing benefit (genuinely was not my fault).

I ended up spending 4 years back at home before going back to that place of work and shortly after met my first husband. He seemed like charm personified until we got married and then his mental and physical abuse began. I endured this until I had my first born which is when I 'saw the light' and left him. During the time that we had been married my Mum had not spoken to me. I had to go back to her's though because I had nowhere else to go and I would have been killed if I had stayed where I was. I moved out 7 months later but because I was a single parent working full time I sometimes relied on my parents (no other family) to pick up my child if I was running late, etc). Seven years this went on, along with almost complete and utter devastation from my ex husband of my life. He nearly tipped me over the edge into the abyss. I was most definitely close to needing psychiatric help, either that or a good hit man.

Then I met and married a really good man. We moved away a few months after we married to another country and whilst we were there we were fortunate enough not to have a lot of dealings with my parents. Whilst we were there I actually felt normal, like a human being again with important views and opinions. Then we had to move back. Our choice of property to buy was scrutinised, my work choice was scrutinised (too many hours), whether we were going to have more children, whether I should get another car, whether I should get my kitchen done, every little thing is being scrutinised, criticised and then a solution of their liking presented. It makes me want to recluse into my own world, but they live 5 minutes drive up the road and turn up of their own volition sometimes. My son goes to a club with my Dad once or twice a week.

I have to get away from this, which means I have to grow some and be the one to stop this. I can't keep hiding from this because right now all I want to do is run and hide.

I know I need counselling. I saw one before and it did help because he actually listened with no solution. Feels good to write it all down though and get it off my chest. By no means was mine as tragic as others, and not so bad in many many ways but god the emotional black mail is hideous. Wish I could break away from it but I know whatever I do will hurt no matter what.

financialwizard,

Your mother is toxic, could be described as narcissistic and the word "probably" should not be put in front of the word controlling in her case. Controlling behaviour is abusive behaviour.

Your mother saw you as a threat, that is also something seen in narcissists.

Your Dad also failed you abjectly here by failing to protect you from his wife's mad excesses of behaviour; he has by his actions shown that he cannot be at all relied on. His role here was that of bystander i.e. act out of self preservation and want of a quiet life. Also he is a weak man who also needs someone to idolise. My guess too is that he has a dysfunctional and enabling relationship with her. He likely did anything to keep the peace including sacrificing your own well being. Their "love" for each other is more likely to be an unhealthy co-dependency (I could actually write this same sentence about my ILs).

Counselling I think for yourself is an essential prerequisite now; I would try BACP and find a counsellor that has no bias about keeping families together despite the presence of mistreatment.

What boundaries do you have in place re these people; do you always let them in if they turn up of their own volition?. If so, one thing you could start doing is not answering the door to them. Baby steps lead to bigger steps.

I would also look into moving away from this area asap and not leaving them any forwarding address.

I will repost something from the beginning of this thread that could also help you with reference to your own comments about your own experience not being so bad or tragic (Actually it was, they still bloody well haunt you and you are unsurprisingly now in FOG):-

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You have my Mum and Dad's relationship down to a 'T'. I often wished when I was growing up that they would divorce and I could move away from my Mum but it never happened, and now I feel he is sucked into a vortex (can't think of another way to describe it). If she died before him I question whether he would change. I love him dearly but when my eyes are open I would have to describe him as weak.

Moving away is not an option unfortunately. My husbands job keeps him here for at least two years. I think a change of telephone numbers is in order though. It frustrates me that we moved here, and then she followed. I always feel better when there is distance between us.

FW

I thought your parents relationship was along those lines, am sorry to be proven correct.

I would consider blocking their number from your phone rather than having to change your own phone number. If you change your number could your dad be at all relied on not to impart that change to his wife?.

If physical separation is not possible due to employment (no way you can move nearer to where he works?) can you try and put in place firmer boundaries for yourself re mentally separating yourself from the two of them?.

As an aside how do you feel about your dad seeing your son once or twice a week?.

Completely agree with everythign attilla has posted.

I'm sorry that things got so bad.

You are your own woman now. She's trying to control and, I think, destroy you. You are stronger and you can win. But completely agreed, it would help to move away if you possibly can.

I wish we could but not viable unfortunately.

She is about 5 miles away so I probably could avoid them as much as possible.

Need some advice from those wiser than me (not hard).

Long story but I went NC with my Mother 10 yrs ago as she was making me ill, anxiety and self esteem issues. Since then I've been a different person and love that I'm no longer 'held down' for want of a better term.

My close sibling is getting married soon and I'm very involved with the wedding, but I'm dreading seeing her there. (Sibling has a better relationship with her, is stronger and stands up for themself more).

In the lead up to the wedding she contacted me out of the blue to ask if we can fix things, it was a shock to hear from her to say the least, so I said it wasn't a good time and would call back, to give myself thinking time.

After much soul searching and discussion with DH (who quite rightly reminded me how unhappy she made me) I called back and said although I knew it was not what she wanted to hear, that I do not want a relationship with her.

She broke down in tears and hung up. Although I felt terrible for upsetting her I have to look after me. I also felt immense relief and proud that I had stood my ground.

So, fast forward to now. How the bloody hell am I going to keep my composure at the wedding? I am terrible at hiding my emotions and am dreading embarrassing myself (getting tearful) if she confronts me.

Siblings have enlisted people to keep an eye on her as they know what she can be like but don't want to cause a scene and spoil their day.

Any suggestions will be very greatfully recieved.

This is really difficult cause you can only be responsible for your own behaviour, not hers.

If she has minders that will help but it might not be enough. Will your husband be there too? if you and he can stay togehter, or if you always know where he is so you can make a bee-line for him if she gets you alone, that will help.

Almost certainly the best way to handle this is to stay calm. If she does face you, keep repeating "i've nothing to say to you" and move away. Possibly "this is not the time or place to discuss this" will help too, remind her it's a wedding. Keep on repeating that no matter what she says. Be prepared for all the emotional blackmail and nastiness in the world; if she's the sort of woman who will say anything she can to hurt, then be prepared for that to happen and make sure you move away even faster.

Worst case, and this is pretty bad, is there anyone who can literally strongarm her out of there?

Remember, you are not responsible for her behaviour. She is.

Good luck

agree with Meerka

discuss and plan scenarios with your DH and somehow you'll get through this.

this is not the time or place over and over will be your best defence.

Just wanted to say thank you for all of your wisdom and advice. You helped me to have a difficult conversation with DH regarding his family and we now have plans for the future so we can deal with potential shit together.

Thank you again, and I hope things get easier for you all

Thank you for your replies, they are appreciated and very helpful, just to know that someone understands as much as anything else. I always feel such a failure for not having a relationship with my Mother.

My DH and DC will be there with me, DSD has met her briefly before so knows what to expect, but am concerned about DD who is very curious as to why she doesn't see her 'other' Nanny.. She is also very outspoken so plenty of room for awkwardness.

When talking to DS I voiced my fears about being confronted and they have made it very clear that they won't stand for any of her nonsense, with me or anyone else. They have people ready to evict her if necessary. I just wish their wedding day would be more relaxed for everyone. How can one person cause so much anxiety for so many people..

HI jiminy. glad to hear we could help. Your situation sounded so tricky, your husband pretty lost in the FearObligation&Guilt.

Do hope that the plans will help and he can begin to feel in control of the situation.

Did you get Toxic Parents, that is a very good book indeed and might help.

Good luck

5inthebed .. Yeah. One person who's willing to cause trouble can ruin so very much :s

You may want to give an age-appropriate slightly editted version of why you don´t see the other Nanny to your daughter. That she has been mean in the past and that because of that, until she's genuinely willing to apologise and try to make amends, that it's better not to have contact. That it's probably best not to say much about it becuase this Nanny sometimes shouts a lot at people and if she does this at the wedding, it will (the important bit) ruin your sister's big day.

Would you move 10 minutes away from in laws who are the cause of most of the stress in your life?
About to move house and suddenly realised what I'm doing...
I think I must be crazy.

Sorry, in my moment of panic I forgot to say hello...!
Hi

Bambam, i'm hoping it's not too late to change that....

Hi BBB in a word, no. Welcome by the way xx

My rant of the day......today will be fallout day. Ho hum. Will be back tomorrow I imagine.