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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

999 replies

DontstepontheMomeRaths · 14/08/2014 21:52

It's July 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting

OP posts:
Meerka · 31/08/2014 19:51

I suspect you do, but that actually she doesn't know how to enforce contact. You've kept successfully blocking her engulfing attempts and she just does not know how to relate or to approach you using any sort of reason or genuine apology. From all you've said (i may be extrapolating too far) she is completely blinded to you as real people due to her own warped psyche.

etienne .. sorry to pull this line, but do treasure every moment that you have the energy to appreciate. Seriously got a lump in me throat at that pic. Our little Squeak is 16 weeks now and already it seems so long ago that he was that tiny and that big-eyed. PetitEtienne is just ... lovely.

GoodtoBetter · 31/08/2014 19:58

I see what you mean, Meerka but I just can't begin to understand her. Then I feel a bit guilty because I think...maybe it's my fault? Maybe I needed to explain why I was angry? From her last e mail on Tuesday she seems to think it's because she was "distraught" at not receiving as much contact as she'd have liked while we were away and so became irritating with text messages and that's why I never want to speak to her again. But she can't truly believe that? She was ANGRY! Does she misremember her own feelings?
I just can't cope with her total insanity. None of it makes any sense.

I don't mean I think you were defending her btw...

Meerka · 31/08/2014 21:16

heh, no, naturally I'm not. I think really that it's just a pity that people end up so very blinded. Either by the need to protect themselves or by selfishness or for whatever reason.

But for all the pity of it, keeping detached is necessary, absolutely vital. dunno, just in a pontificating mood really =)

But I really do not think you should get in touch for any reason, good. That guilt would lead right back into the smothering trap. Also, I don't think you have any reason to feel guilty.

financialwizard · 31/08/2014 21:17

Confusing isn't it. I don't think we'd ever truly know what goes on in their world.

etienne1 · 31/08/2014 22:25

Thanks guys, you're being nicer about my son than my own mother :) I'm certainly trying to cherish every moment, he'll never be this small again!

I bought my Dad a birthday present, as it's his birthday today... but my DH intercepted the amazon parcel and isn't happy about the fact I am, once again, being a mug as they haven't even sent a card since DS was born. So i have been persuaded not to send it. At least it may be the catalyst required for a conversation that needs to happen.

GoodtoBetter · 31/08/2014 23:07

Good for your DH Etienne.
Meerka, I'm not contacting her, don't worry. Wink
All quiet on the Western Front still.

TalkingintheDark · 01/09/2014 00:06

Another good for your DH here, etienne. And wow, isn't your baby boy adorable!!

I wouldn't hold out hope for any kind of meaningful conversation with your parents, though. They sound so horribly detached from you. But not sending a present to him is a great step, really!

Good, glad to hear you've made it through the day, it must have been challenging.

Have been feeling a bit challenged myself, today. The crap thing about having a crap mother is that the very person you should be able to go to for support about something being crap is the person who's causing/caused you the crap in the first place... So it's doubly crap. Double crap whammy.

Ouf. C'est la vie.

Looking I know what you mean about that dialogue re your father...

GoodtoBetter · 01/09/2014 07:21

Got a msg from my uncle. He's trying to smoothe things over and make peace and she has an "answer" for everything. She's such a lying old witch. And still no apology. Sad

AttilaTheMeerkat · 01/09/2014 07:29

GoodtoBetter

Am so sorry G2B but you're going to have to go radio silent on the two of them.

Am not totally surprised to see that your uncle is trying to smooth things over. It is totally NOT his place to do that (he is both weak and a winged monkey) and seemingly still loyal to his sister.

Did you ever expect an apology from your mother?. I don't know her but I tell you now she will never do that because she feels she has done nothing wrong in the first place; you must realise by now that toxic people never apologise nor take any responsibility for their actions!!. Your mother is still intent on destroying you and your children. Look at how she has behaved to them.

You can and should only surround yourself and your children with people who actually do give a fig about you and your family unit; namely the previous aunt figure you wrote of, your brother (he is still a lot further on that you are) and your DH. She will rewrite and continue to rewrite historical events to suit her, all her behaviour is typical narcissistic type stuff.

Meerka · 01/09/2014 07:48

Oh dear, good, not surprising but a shame.

Will you be replying or not?

I feel that if you have a reasonable good relationship with him otherwise, but he's not respected your stated wish not to communicate with her. So no further contact is a very reasonable option. It's not always all that very easy to do though, if he's nice otherwise. If you do, I'd call him on his discussions with her.

Hope you're ok this morning.

Hissy · 01/09/2014 07:53

I agree, Good remind him that it's not necessary for him to smooth this over, that if she wanted to she could do that all by herself.

but she won't. her choice.

GoodtoBetter · 01/09/2014 09:02

To be fair, I didn't ask him not to talk to her, I just told him what had happened and why I wasn't talking to her. I like all your suggestions for if I do respond. I will probably wait until after we come back from holiday and I've had my first counselling session. I'll tell you a bit more about the letter later.

TalkingintheDark · 01/09/2014 09:53

Sorry to hear, Good.

The trouble is that your uncle is implicitly subscribing to the version of events where you are the bad guy, whether he realises it or not.

As Hissy so rightly says, if your mother really wanted to sort this out, she could do so all by herself.

You are not some mean, heartless ogre who is deaf to the plaints of her poor, wretched mother, simply being obdurate and unreasonable.

But to suggest there is a need for an intermediary implies that you just won't listen to her, that there is something he could say that can reach you that she - poor, helpless little victim mother - can't.

Whereas the problem isn't that you won't listen, of course, it's that she won't listen to you. It's not that you don't want a loving, mutually supportive relationship, it's that SHE doesn't. If he really recognised this, he would be "on your side" in this, he would be calling her on her bullshit and telling her that she's the one who needs to get her act together. Not working on you, trying to make you accept yet more of her bullshit.

But his own denial won't allow him to do that, almost certainly.

This is the kind of stuff that people on the outside almost never get. They think "oh, kindly uncle, cares about everyone and wants to make everything nice, why can't you be nice and reasonable and talk to him", but it's not actually like that.

Whether he consciously means to or not, he is on some level blaming you, and that's why this is toxic.

I'm glad you're going to give yourself some breathing space before you decide whether/how to reply. Good move.

Aussiebean · 01/09/2014 10:13

I think you should liken her to their sister. The one your mum said he stopped speaking to.

I don't trust anything narcs say and you have only your mums word for your uncles feelings and action. And you said that everything's she has accused her sister of, is exactly what she does. (Projection maybe? )

So tell him. Tell him everything your mum said about why he has cut the sister off and explain that unfortunately your mum is doing the same. So he would clearly understand where you are coming from. Then tell him to keep out of it. In a nice way of course.

You mum will either be exposed as a liar to your uncle or your uncle will get a clearer understanding of what you are going through.

But make sure you tell him to keep out of it.

TalkingintheDark · 01/09/2014 11:18

Ok advance warning, long...

Just thinking more and more about this on a general level and I think it's a really crucial issue.

The idea that two parties are on an equal footing and any issues are joint issues that can be resolved by mediation... Is utter bullshit. It's a denial of abuse.

I'm frothing a bit because one of the stunts my parents pulled was to actually offer to go to counselling with me. My own therapist advised strongly against, for the same reasons couples counselling is not advised where there has been abuse of any kind.

They did go themselves (for five sessions) and predictably came away with a long list of justifications for why they had behaved as they did, how none of it was their fault, how it was very hard for them that I was so difficult that I forced them to shout at me, for example. And how their counsellor had said "there are two sides to every story", therefore it just couldn't be true that they were the bad guys and I was the victim.

And of course what was not there, not in a single syllable, was one iota of empathy for me, or understanding of how their abuse had affected me, or recognition that it had affected me, or that it had negatively impacted on my life in any way at all. No recognition of their complete failure to protect me, the way they groomed me to be a target for bullies and abusers in every sphere of life. And certainly no commitment to change any of their behaviour in the future. No real apology, no remorse. Just more bullshit.

But how good did it make them look! "Oh we tried everything you know, we even offered to go to counselling with her, but she refused to come; we even went ourselves, but she still wouldn't listen to us... She just won't listen to us, it's so very hard for us, we're suffering so much, we're such victims, poor us..."

I have seen people on MN wishing that their parents would even offer or agree to do that. But it's not actually a solution at all. It's exactly the same as an abusive partner offering to go to couples counselling with the woman he's systematically abused for years and years and then using the sessions to further gaslight, manipulate, control and emotionally abuse her.

And it just adds to the headfuck, because it is hard to maintain NC when they are apparently making such a big concession. It is hard to justify it to yourself and to others. It adds another layer of guilt and confusion to the infinite number of layers that already exist.

Abuse is abuse. Whether it's emotional, physical, sexual, whatever. There is an abuser and a victim. If a woman is raped by a man, there are not two sides to that story - there is one story. He raped her. If a child is abused by her parents, there is one story. They abused her. Some situations are black and white and need to be seen as such, and any temptation to add in shades of grey is just denial of what actually happened.

I think you know if someone's intentions are genuinely good and caring. If they recognise that they have done wrong, that it is not your fault that they did wrong, that they have hurt you and caused you suffering and you did not deserve it, and they want to make amends and rebuild a relationship that supports you and meets your needs instead of just them and theirs - then you don't need any counselling or any mediator to work together. If someone really does a complete about turn and sees you and starts acting out of real love instead of selfishness and fear and denial.... That's all you need.

But unfortunately what you're (speaking in a general sense here, not to anyone in particular) very, very unlikely to ever get. Abusive people are the very ones who are generally incapable of any of the above.

I wish there were an alternative to NC. I hate the fact that I and my little family of DH and DS are the ones who miss out on all the big family gatherings, family visits in the holidays, big meals round the table at Christmas, my little DS who's so sociable and sparky and funny and would so enjoy being in a big family group like that... I hate being so isolated, so alone in life - it really is just me and DH, when it comes down to it, in terms of adult support.

But to be a part of their world would be to legitimise the abuse they all perpetrated against me and to leave myself (and of course my DS) open to more of the same. I would be going along with their version of events, like a woman continuing to live with her rapist and accepting his version that is wasn't actually rape, as well as the possibility of it happening again at any time. I hope this isn't offensive to any actual rape survivors, but I really do feel as if the abuse I suffered was almost a continual emotional rape by the three people in my family. They took so much from me, and I never had the power to stop them.

yongnian yy about looking after the scared little girl. NC for me is about protecting her, giving her a clear message that is it not OK for people to treat her like that. It's also a way I can now exercise some power - I can't stop them from behaving the way they do, but I can refuse to subject myself to it any more.

Medal for anyone who's read to the end...!

etienne1 · 01/09/2014 12:13

Talking Where's my medal ? ;)

You make so much sense, and seem to be able to look at your situation with such clarity. You're right THEY are the parents and it was their responsibility to parent you, no matter what you were like, and should make concessions for you as you were the CHILD.

My Dad said recently 'he couldn't forgive me for how I treated the rabbits' I was 7 and would forget to feed them, because I was 7!!! I can barely remember the rabbit now.

Don't enter into THEIR mind game of counselling, which it sounds like you're not, stay strong! You say you're isolated but you have your DH and when they're loving and supportive that's all you need... you don't need negative abusive people in your life (I need to take my own advice on this...)

I may have missed something, but when you say the three people who are they? do you have any siblings?

Meerka · 01/09/2014 13:51

but actually agreed with etienne of the gorgeous baby.

Mediation only works if both sides are willing to give it a genuine chance doesnt it. I've heard of several psychotherapists who say that some people enter psychotherapy for exactly the reason you say - they can then say 'oh we even tried therapy but she just wasn't willing to engage, even that's failed. She's hopeless". They'd rather give up and damage their children than look at their own sick ways of interacting and dare to change and improve :(

ALso asyou say, talking by not going along with their version of events and with their behavio, u you're doing one utterly vital thing: protecting your son.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 01/09/2014 14:49

To use mediation is to subscribe to the mistaken idea that abuse is related to "misunderstandings" or lack of communication. If discussion and compromise, the mainstay of mediation, could help in any way most domestic violence situations would be long ago resolved because victims of abuse "discuss and compromise" constantly. Mediation assumes both parties will cooperate to make agreements work; the victim has always 'cooperated' with the abuser; the abuser never cooperates.

Mediation can be and is ordered by judges/courts, as can counselling and mental health evaluations. They are tools in the abuser's arsenal to be used against the victim as often as he chooses. In order for mediation to work and to not make situations worse the parties involved must have equal power and must share some common vision of resolution. This is clearly not present when domestic violence has taken place in a relationship.

Mediation practitioners must be alert to the need to interview partners separately with specially designed questions in order to determine if abuse is or has been present. Many domestic violence professionals can train others to screen safely for domestic violence. To not do so risks unsuccessful mediations, at best, and increasing the victim's danger by colluding with the abuser, at worst.

A person who has been terrorized by an abuser is not free to participate in a mediation process with him, even if the mediator(s) assume or believe that they "understand". Being truthful about any of her needs or experiences in the abuser's presence or proximity practically ensures that she is in more danger later.

The mediator is left with a no win: either the victim's danger is increased, or she is not fully or truthfully participating, or both. The well meaning mediator may actually encourage the victim to feel safe enough to share information that could seriously compromise her safety. In any case the whole intent of mediation is lost.

To engage an abuser and a victim in a process that implies equal responsibility is damaging to both. The victim is once again made to feel responsible for the abuser's behavior, and the abuser is allowed to continue to not accept full responsibility for his behaviour choices.

GoodtoBetter · 01/09/2014 14:59

Meerka, Etienne and Talkin totally agree with you. I think these people just want to be "right" at all costs. They'll go to any lengths to avoid taking blame or responsibility. Bastards, the lot of them.

I wanted some help decifering my uncle's e mail, if that's OK? Could some of you maybe tell me what you think of it?

He says he better understands "past history" and that things have obviously become entrenched, making it difficult to recover. He then asks if there is any possibility of a continuing relationship, "which obviously will never be the same as before but could be functional for everyone’s sake, especially and particularly the children?" which I think is ignoring the next thing he writes about:

Says he doesn't want to get in volved, but talked to DM about "a couple of things in your email that I found disturbing and surprising". One was the favouritism thing.

They've talked about it and then she's e mailed him and he's c&p'd part of it. She says I obviously "dislkie her very much and think she has been a bad mother" (victim, martyr, they're all against me). Says to remind me the many times she said how pretty and clever and funny DD is.
Claims she "knew DS better because he was in my life daily from his birth till he was nearly five whereas DD was still only a toddler when she left, not talking and not at the stage of being read to." That is such crap. By that logic she would always favour the elder as they had existed longer! DD is FAR more verbal than DS, was talking at 20 months when we moved out and she sees her every week. She was being read to from months old. The difference is that DM was always massively involved in what DS was reading and not the slightest bit interested in what DD might be reading or not. "If you can bring yourself to be honest, tell DS he is the light of my life and always will be". DS, NOT DD.
Sorry, bit angry there.

Apparently she was worried that my uncle getting involved would cause me additional stress and there's a whole bit c&p'd from her all about what a hard worker I am and how I need "more head space, not more stress". But apparently I can't go down to the beach or switch my phone off without WW3

He says we obviously need a break from each other and that she'll probably go back to the UK but will need help from me or Dbro untangling affairs. And that hopefully we can have LD rl at some point.

Then, there's a postscript saying my aunt thought my e mail "fully showed your deeply felt emotions and the difficulty that you had balancing family life of three generations living together with work and the rest of life in general. Because you have expressed yourself so well she thinks that DM would benefit from reading it." Not sure what that means really.

There is nothing about that she's sorry, that she apologises for being a cunt to my husband and slandering him for years. No apology for harrassing me. Just "poor little me, I so love my cruel wicked daughter anf GC I can't see. I just don't understand what's got into her".

We're going away tomorrow for a week and I'm not reply (if ever) before then. Have therapy on the 16th, may leave it til after then. I might write some responses here to get my head clear if that's OK.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 01/09/2014 15:10

I would take your uncle to task over this but I really do not think this is actually worth replying at all to in the long run. You will not be listened to.

Of course there is no apology; there never is. As previously mentioned toxic people like your mother never apologise nor accept any responsibility here for their actions.

Your uncle has and continues to meddle for his own ends; I think he just wants the two of you to be able to get along so he can have a quiet life (his role here is that of bystander). His loyalty after all I maintain is still to his sister.

I think your brother would certainly scoff at your uncle's e-mail and he would likely tell your uncle to back off.

Re this from your uncle as well:-
"He says we obviously need a break from each other and that she'll probably go back to the UK but will need help from me or Dbro untangling affairs. And that hopefully we can have LD rl at some point".

Why on earth would he assume that either you or your brother would be willing to help her after all the narcissistic crap she has put you both through since childhood?. I think his second sentence is more in his interest than it ever would be in yours, he lives in a dreamworld. He needs to be reminded that it is NOT possible to have any sort of relationship with a narcissist.

Honestly such people like both your uncle and your narcissistic mother need to be totally cut off. You do not need this rubbish from them and your family unit have suffered enough. She did you an awful lot of damage, damage from which you have not fully healed and she would start on your children and over or under value them (as narcissists do) given any opportunity.

Meerka · 01/09/2014 16:07

hrrrrrm.

I thin your uncle means well but he's meddling in things that he doesn't understand. He should do, given his other sister, but he doesn't.

Your aunt doesn't have a clue. The line about Because you have expressed yourself so well she thinks that DM would benefit from reading it. means, I think, that your uncle did not forward your mail to your mother though he raised a few points from it with her, but that your aunt thinks that if you were ok with your mother reading it, it would help her understand why you are so upset. As said, she doesn't have a clue becuase she doesn't realise that your mother is not capable of rational response. I suspect your uncle does understand a bit better, but though he means well he's not actually helping becuase he doesn't see the reality of what she is like.

Waiting til after the first skype session sounds a good idea, but one session may not be enough, it's really only the introductory session though your therapist may have more understanding than usual becuase of your brother.

Your uncle does mean well and it does hurt when you loose another family member for whatever reason. If you choose to stay in contact, I could understand it. Could also very much understand it if you don't. But I think you have to make it clear that you're not willing to risk the shadow of any contact and unleashing all her harassment again. Maybe remind him that the 20+ calls, telling your 80yo in laws that you were dead, hammering on the door and dumping your goods, and the vicious messages on teh answerphone were the response to a few hours' without contact. A few hours. All that, for a few hours.

I think, if you stay in contact with him, that you have to insist that he holds by what he said that he doesn't want to get involved. The subject should not be brought up again.

what does LD rl mean, sorry?

Far as im concerned, draft all the answers you like =) You might want to consider posting in OTBT as messages there are deleted automatically after 30 days.

I really hope you can have a good holiday away and come back refreshed =)

AttilaTheMeerkat · 01/09/2014 16:20

"LD rl"

I took that to mean long distance relationship (to which I snorted in derision as well). Does he not know or infact care that it is not possible to have any sort of relationship with a narcissist?.

I would still not bother replying to it because I feel that no good would come of it. These people are not prepared to listen and your uncle is meddling.

GoodtoBetter · 01/09/2014 16:20

Long distance relationship. I think you are right, Meerka. Especially about my aunt...she's very lentil weavery think the best of everyone...
I know the first session will be just telling him "my story". I'll ponder it a bit more but I think they meddle basically because they are well meaning people who can't understand this...and for that I don't blame them, but it means ultimately it becomes little more than just that...meddling.

Meerka · 01/09/2014 16:34

I'm afraid so yes.

The subject of your mother needs to thoroughly off the cards in future in any contact with them.

Minor rant, people who want to think the best of everyone really bug me. Because it's such a blind way of ignoring some of the cruelty that goes on under their noses to helpless people like children. It's not even genuinely meant well, i think, it's more to make them feel ok because they don't want to face the hard things in life that people can be utter shits.

I really, really dislike that attitude becuase it's condoning cruelty.

PuddingandPie1 · 01/09/2014 18:24

I lost my twin brother 50 years ago. He died from an asthma attack on the way home from our primary school. I "lost" my Mother that day in the sense that she never recovered from Stephen's death. She was restless and sad for the rest of her life becoming ever more estranged from the rest of us. There was a short spell after I got married when I thought she was getting better but it didn't last. She never saw my children, through her own choice, and I saw her no more than half a dozen times in the last 5 years of her life.
At home and school Stephen became a non-person, never to be mentioned again. We had twin desks in the classroom and of course he and I had been put together but after he died I just sat at the same double desk on my own. Nothing could be said about Stephen at home.
Mum stopped being a parent the day Stephen died and not long after Dad stopped being a husband as she was impossible to live with. After the divorce he made a new life for himself. He never talked that much about Stephen: except to me towards the end of his life. He wasn't particularly religious but he fully expected to see Stephen again when he died. I hope he did as my dad was a decent man who didn't deserve much of the sadness that came his way.
I have made my peace with Stephen now. I had the bitter and resentful years until I got married – then years of not thinking about it - then the finding closure moment at his graveside very recently. His picture is in the lounge alongside my Mum and Dad's (they have both been deceased for some years) where it belongs.