"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

It's July 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting

Sorry to hear about your son Dontstep I hope he feels better soon
xxx

Well done good have a and a

glad you feel better =)

dont how's the lad doing now? Any better? Little amounts of toast, try not to give him fat or sugar or fruit as if it's a bug it'll feed the bacteria.

That said, there's plenty of sickness stuff about, so it may be something he's picked up. Poor thing!

Good well done. Now don't get drawn into anything else.

I dare say that if suspicions are correct, assume that whatever you wrote will get back to her and be prepared for some kind of renewal of activities from 'D'M.

Half of this battle is preparedness. Remember that the truth is always victorious, so try to relax in that knowledge.

Thanks Hissy. It was probably ill advised but I just felt it had to be said to someone. I don't expect I'll hear from my uncle again, which is a shame as he's otherwise an OK guy, but I think this will be a step too far for him. That's OK, I get it. It took me years of living with her to twig. I am prepared for the rest of the family to be slowly poisoned against me, but I can't do anything about that. The alternative is to kiss and make up and that's not happening in a month of Sundays.
What I am a bit nervous about is the fact that she will probably hear about what I said and it will unleash another wave of batshittery, but still...I needed to say it, for me. We are away for a week from Tuesday at least.
I feel a bit like I'm sitting on a bomb about to go off.
I do apologise for my total thread domination in the last few days btw.

Don't worry about dominating the thread, that's what it's here for.

Meerka your little one sounds lovely. Nice to have a contented baby.

Gave him a tiny bit of plain pasta tonight. We shall see how it goes.

We all have to 'dominate' the thread in moment of crisis, and yours is about as tough as it gets! Please never ever apologise for getting support here? Our stately home is plenty big enough for us all! ;)

Now an e mail from her how much she loves me but doesn't know what she's done. She's sorry for irritating message a she was just distraught and trying to get a response. Knows she won't see gc again but doesn't know why. Will go and leave us in peace but needs help disconnecting utilities, please don't deny me this it's driving her mad with worry.

Hahahaha my MIL followed the EXACT same script. She could of wrote this herself. Notice no real apology? Just crap loads of guilt tripping.

You do wonder if they really have blinded themselves so far that they truly don't realise. ( and then you, or at least I, wonder where our great flaws lie!).

honestly, good, I do hope this is the end of the hassle. And at least you've said your truth clearly, once.

Hope your son's a bit better, mome. Have the schools started again in the UK, or does he have a few days still to recover?

I need to go back to work and him to playscheme. But we shall see how he is tomorrow. I have an understanding boss but I feel I've had too much time off lately.

hope he has a good night.

Hi, I'm a lurker
Forgive me for butting in.
GoodtoBetter
I think you have done the right thing responding to your uncle.
Maybe he's a winged monkey, but maybe he's not.
Your mother clearly (?) has asked him to intervene.
You give some excerpts from his email above.
Reading these, it seems to me he's being absolutely neutral - not blaming either side. He wants to help.
That's good.
I'm pleased you have responded.
Not to do so would I think have been rude.

At the end of the day, the only person you have to live with is yourself.
Behave well. Be the bigger person. Without any evidence to the contrary, I think you need to assume he is just a normal good person trying to help . .

Do you have / is there any evidence that he is not ?

Hi HelenaKD, thanks. No problem butting in. Are you a potential Stately Homer? Please feel free to unlurk if you want to talk about difficult family, as you can see everyone is welcome and the support here is anazing.
Uncle has responded. He says "thank you so much for your e mail, lots there to consider. You have obviously been through a rough time". He's travelling back from holiday but will write more later. His sister, my aunt, is JUST like my mum but more blatant iyswim. My mum hides her viciousness except those really close. I heard (from my mother just before all this actually) that he's gone NC with my aunt to all extents and purposes. So maybe some of my e mail is ringing some bells.
I won't get into more discussions with him about this but I am glad I told the truth.

That's more encouraging than i'd expected Good!

As you say though, ultimately what he thinks is irrelevant though, he's not IN the relationship between you and your DM.

One thing that i've learned somehow with mine, is the relationship I have with my dm is very different to the one my sister has, so therefore she simply can't compute the shit my mum's done. When I gave her a rundown, she shook her head in disbelief and shock. We agreed not to talk about it.

It is hard, isn't it? When you outline the things and even people who were there with you at the time don't recognise it at all.

My sister has been great in this respect - she can both recognise what happened to me, and can recognise that her relationship with Dad is and always has been different to mine. I think my brothers think I'm just being stubborn, and I get a lot of 'well, that's just what Dad's like. You have to ignore him.' (as in the things he occasionally says.)

The thing is, my entire childhood was spent investing in this man. I foolishly bought into the lie that he would love me, one day, if I worked hard enough. He nearly loved me, but not quite....

The other siblings don't seem to have spent so long chasing down that love. I don't know why. Mum admits that she spent more time focussing on the others for various reasons not related to me at all, though partly because Dad's favouritism of me was so blatant. So I wasn't getting so much natural, genuine affection from the one parent who could manage it, so I went all out for the other.

Sorry - I'm rambling.

I suppose what it boils down to is that my relationship with Dad is something that my brothers can recognise, but it isn't something that they quite believe. I suppose that's fair; I didn't really believe it for a long, long time. I think I am blamed for not talking to him slightly.

im glad you sister knows what you're talking about, looking, even if her relationship is different. At least it's a sllghtly less lonely place to be and you can be reasonably sure that your relationship with your sister is more solid.

good im really pleased your uncle isnt at least dismissing what you said. I hope he continues to think it over without prejudice. Uh, it is just possible that he will choose to come down on his sister's side though; having gone NC with one sister it may be too much for him to handle more sibling hassle. Hopefully though, he'll just stay neutral at least.

I'm thinking things over and over atm. All sorts of things. When I look back, there was a much older lady who took an interest in me in my later teen years (somehow, now I think of it, there were a few kindly older people of both genders were there for me in the really bad times and took the place of grandparents. I started thinking about it due to a thread that got me rather cross and now I'm reassessing the whole teen situatoin). She actually had been my stepmother's neighbour. I mentioned something once about something my soon-to-be-stepmother had said and this lady sat bolt upright in shock and exclaimed "that's a lie!".

I think she knew what my spineless father was like, and at that point she realised my stepmother was a lot less nice than she appeared. I think she knew what was going to unfold.

Another one I'm grateful to, looking back, for being there at least later on. She took me into her home when my own was so unpleasant that I was nearly at the point of ending it.

There's been some horrible times, but also some lovely lovely people along the way.

Good to just to offer an observation of how your tone sounds ever stronger and more self assured as you move through this part of the journey...again, thanks for sharing...gives courage to those of us who may (inevitably) need to take similar action. You are dealing with this in a dignified and inspiring manner.
Looking through I think that's very true about the differing sibling/parent relationships providing differing perspectives. I think both my siblings acknowledge how we were treated differently...but one is now well on his way to being a narcissist himself (and a toxic parent) and the other is not but is shutdown ....so tends not to look at his own stuff let alone anyone else's. Plus narc M is still firmly running the 'family PR department' that tells them what to think anyway.
What I find mindblowingabout this stuff is how many of us have had shared experiences that are weirdly specific...stuff that doesn't happen in non-toxic families...I really thought it was just me...but no....you could not make it up.

X post with Meerka I had similar experiences with 'stand-in' parents/elders/mentors...I think outsiders can often see when a child is in need and may be unable to fully intervene but instead offer what they can...I know that happened for me, and various people helped a lot.

What I find mindblowing about this stuff is how many of us have had shared experiences that are weirdly specific...stuff that doesn't happen in non-toxic families

The one that sort of hit me in the face like a brick was when I related the story that my dad killed and fed us our pet chickens. They were pets - named and kept for eggs - we'd had them years. He told us half way through the meal and laughed at our hilarious distress.

When I think of that story, it's often without much emotion. It's just one of the almost routine things that happened in my life. Other people hearing the story respond with absolute shock, as if it's utterly unusual and horrible or try to rationalise it 'are you sure they weren't being kept for meat...?'. He actually killed a couple of other of our pets when he'd grown bored of them. In those cases, at least he got a vet to do it, but there was no discussion first. Dad kills animals without much thought of how their death will affect anyone but him. That's relatively 'normal' in our life.

It's like there's this whole set of different milestones in healthy and unhealthy families. You get 'has he had a massive health crisis to try to get you back into the fold yet?' and 'how's the triangulation going?' rather than 'got any nice plans for Christmas.'

OMFG, Looking that is so mind-blowingly awful, like something from a horror film!

With me it was when I first read about narc mothers 2 years ago and the actual phrases they all use "you have a very overactive imagination" when totally denying something they've done to hurt you. There are more I can't remember now, but it hit me like a ton of bricks. It wasn't just the narc traits, they actually even SAY the same things!

Yes, since the big bust up at Christmas (2012) Dbro and I refer to her as the drama llama (now more as the batshit bitch). We often ask each other if there have been any llama updates.

Oh god looking, how bloody horrible. Actually laughing at your distress ....

my father in law is farmer-stock and unsentimental about animals but to kill a pet and then laugh about it is just sadistic ... :(

Meh, he thought he was doing the right thing by toughening us up and educating us about where our food came from. It didn't actually effect me that badly, though it does bother me slightly that I've never really learned to get properly attached to pets. I never stop seeing them as a temporary thing. I think what effects me quite badly is the realisation that my dad is actually utterly crazy.

(Though see how strong the urge to defend him is there. Despite all the crushing anger, I don't think the urge to defend him will ever go away. Ironic, really, as he's never rushed to my defence.)

The myriad ways they fuck us up

Hi, a lurker but had to post after reading these last few posts.
Have been reading this thread and nodding a lot when I see something my NP said or did! Its not normal, I know that now, but it was my 'normal' for so many years!

Meerka Thanks for suggesting (on my other thread) to write a letter stating what sort of parents I should have had, am kinda doing that, it helps!