"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

It's July 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting

Say

X posted.

What's your uncle like? When did you last speak to him? Would he believe the below? Will he forward it onto your Mum?

I go by what I said last night. She's clapping her hands in glee knowing you'll bite now she has her winged monkey involved. She gets her reply afterall. Hard not to reply but I would just write it all out here not in an email that can be forward into God knows who.

GoodtoBetter

I suggest you write it all here instead. No point writing to uncle; he will always side with his sister over you because his loyalty is to her. Also he is weak and needs someone to idolise. He would rather you take the flak.

Your e-mail will be taken by either one or both of them and used against you as a result. They do not want to hear the message, also toxic people always want the last word.

Now an e mail from her how much she loves me but doesn't know what she's done. She's sorry for irritating message a she was just distraught and trying to get a response. Knows she won't see gc again but doesn't know why. Will go and leave us in peace but needs help disconnecting utilities, please don't deny me this it's driving her mad with worry.

Deny her

She doesn't need help disconnecting utilities. That's bizarre and ridiculous.

Now she seems to have backed off her winged monkey, there's probably no real reason to send your uncle the email.

Ah the usual crap from your mother about not knowing what she has done. Well narcissists do not have such insight anyway and besides which they do not care. Also narcissists have made the terrible choice not to love so she can truly get lost. I cannot also emphasise enough their complete lack of empathy for other people.

Forgive me but why does she need to have her utilities disconnected and what has that got to do with you anyway?.

Ignore and do not reply at all. Radio Silence from you needs to be put into effect as of now.

She can indeed leave you in peace by not contacting you in any fashion any longer. I would also suggest you block her e-mail address as of now also.

She means when (if) she sells the house. Which is nonsense obviously as the estate agent can do it

Will write to my uncle and then that's the end. I can't win either way. If I don't write then she'll say I'm ignoring him too. If I do write she'll twist it but at least I'll have said my piece and maybe he'll see her for what she is some day.

Yep she's just trying to get a reply.

I won't keep repeating myself but it's a waste of time to reply and try and justify yourself and having it all on an e-mail that can be read and forwarded anywhere is unwise.

I know I know. But it's so unfair. Maybe just the bare bones.

ignore her mail.

can you redirect her stuff to Spam?

agreed your uncle might discuss the mail with your mother or forward it.

not answering him is a good response too, but he might be a reasonable man - you're the one who knows him, what do you think? If he is, then I think it's fair to lay out the other side - once.

If you do send the mail, ask him at the end not to discuss it any further with your mother or yourself. You absolutely do not want this drama to go on any further. If he does forward it or mention it again then he will clearly have not respected your stated wishes and I would step back and not talk to him again.

Not even the bare bones of an e-mail GoodToBetter; anything you write to either one of these two will be used against you. Neither of them are willing and or able to hear the message you want to tell them.

Your uncle I daresay would not be reasonable here. He will continue to side with his sister because his loyalty is to her, he is himself weak and needs someone to idolise. He is more than happy to see you take the flak from your mad as a box of frogs mother.

As you have acknowledged his email, then you will need to say something to him that closes the communication down.

"I appreciate your message, but as you say you struggle to see how "any occurrences could be so bad as to result in a total breakdown of communication between you and your mother" The occurrences really HAVE been that bad.

The decision to end contact has been extremely hard, but absolutely essential. Whatever story you have been told is certainly NOT the full one and I don't feel it appropriate to go into all of the circumstances that have made such a monumental decision necessary.

I know that I have done everything I can to try to avoid making that decision, but sadly to no avail. I have to protect myself and my family.

I won't be discussing my decision further."

I think that NO REPLY will weaken G2B's position and resolve.

Good made that decision for bloody good reason and bollocks to anyone that is dumb enough to think that she did it on a whim.

She blubbered to him, more fool him to actually have the stupidity to wade in. It's none of his business tbh. NONE.

So a salvo that goes back, reinforcing her position and stating that there is a shit load of stuff that he knows FA about and that she won't discuss it with him (as he's shown his colours) is a good idea in my book.

The statement about not discussing it further means that if he DOES come back, Good can justifiably ignore him.

that justification is ALL important when making a NC decision.

"I've told him I've read his message and that it's a diffuclt and painful situation for me and I will respond later"

I'd literally reply saying after having thought carefully you do not wish to discuss this with him nor involve him in this situation and that whatever he's been told to take it with a pinch of salt.

actually hissy's email would be the wisest, definitely

Hissy's is firm and gets the message across. But mine is very brief as really I think any reply is futile but as she's already sent him a one liner, I suppose he ought to have a further e-mail to reinforce her position and make it clear she won't discuss it further.

He shouldn't have waded in as Hissy said.

I'd take out the pinch of salt bit in my suggestion in retrospect. One line only if it was me. Not much for her Mother to go on on being forwarded. Or for anyone to make anything out of. Just an end to discussing it with him.

Goodto I hope you can find a solution that brings you some peace and can enjoy the rest of the day. This situation is so stressful for you, your Mother is unhinged. NC is the right decision. I would keep a record of everything she has done to remind yourself next time you start to doubt nc, as has been suggested before on here I think.

I'm home today as DS has a tummy bug, I never knew weetabix could make such a mess on being reconstituted. Bleurgh

oh dear, you'd think it was one of the better things if you're ill ! Hope the little one recovers quickly

I didn't know he was ill until it came back up. I was in the shower with shampoo in my hair, DD was yelling and gave him a cup to puke into, which clearly didn't work. Thank God for aqua vacs. It really was everywhere. Sorry tmi

How's your wee one?

The lil one is doing great, was weighed again and is right on the 50th percentile. Happy contented baby, we're very lucky!

the older one is struggling with the beginning of the school year. this year he has to actually work ;)

Sorry to hear about your son Dontstep. Hope he is feeling better soon.

(I would just give him sips of water for the time being until his stomach can tolerate food again).

He had a plain piece of toast earlier with no butter just a light bit of jam. He was begging for something. That's remained down but I don't want to jinx it by giving him more. I'd probably just offer a banana max now.

I expect you are right, but I have sent my response detailing why. If he doesn't believe me, so be it. I will not enter into any more conversations with anyone in my family about this. I have explained, they can believe what they want. I feel better.