"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

It's July 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting

Not sure what a winged monkey is (have heard it a few times on here but never thought to enquire about it LOL). Does it mean a person who is going between people and telling one what the other is saying/doing in order to shit-stir and cause tension between the 2 people? Or is it someone who goes between 2 people and gets information from, say yourself, to pass on to other people you are NC or low contact with?

I'd be very careful about your email address. If it was me, I'd set up a new one and deactivate the old one. The main 'rules' I go by are:

1. Make sure the person you've gone NC with only hears info that you're not bothered about them hearing (incredibly boring stuff that is mundane to others).
2. If you have a wobble about NC, remember why you decided to do it in the 1st place.
3. For winged monkeys - see rule No 1.
4. Be careful about who you give info to, they may casually chat to the person you've gone NC with. If you're not sure, remember 'rule' No 1.

I can't think of any more, but they seem to have served me well so far with a relative I've gone low contact with. Other than that, live well and enjoy the peace and lack of drama in your life

Sorry Good, to answer your question, I would say it's possible he may well be a winged monkey for the person you've gone NC/LC with. That's for you to decide as you know the person better than myself, so that's your call. From what you've said, you haven't got his email (he may not have even sent one), he has asked for yours then gone offline . That in itself would make me suspicious.

Or he wants to work out the truth. Your mil has been feeding him a pack of lies. I guess you'll only find out on receipt of the email whether he is indeed a winged monkey.

Chiggers congratulations. Distance will be so helpful.

Thank you Mome and Good, In a way I'm looking forward to leaving my home town, but will miss my parents and friends. I have DH and our DC, obviously, but it's my DH who is hurt the most at the way I'm treated. My parents have changed for the better, but my brothers are a different kettle of fish altogether.

Anyway, I'll bid you all good night and go walk the mad mutts

Hissy yes, tbh this has always been a tactic of hers - acquire information and use it to appear more in the know than anyone. She also has no boundaries with anyone's information or business and will spread your news far and wide. Typical drama llama - anyone's drama will do!! At the moment she is really struggling for info because I am so LC with her but is keeping up appearances with a couple of friends of mine who happen to go to the same social gathering regularly, and cannot bear to think it might seem she's not in the know. Last time I bothered to civilly explain to her in a mature and reasonable fashion why her latest faux pas/indiscretion (or deliberate sabotage perhaps?) nearly cost me a work contract, she responded furiously like a defensive teenager and then to try to turn the tables about why I was just so out of line with my NC with her golden child (seriously physically and emotionally abusive to me growing up with whole family's knowledge andno attempt at intervention) and I should 'reassess my attitude'. Ha yeah, I reassesesd and went even lower LC.
Good to I think that's an important point to make that your M has brought about the NC....mine is going the same way and I know that I'll be typing 'batshit' by predictive text a lot myself at that point...your story has given me courage though.
And sorry, I've forgotten who said it but the double whammy of being abused by your family then made out to be the bad guy when the eventual only outcome is to cut them off, absolutely stinks. Someone else on another thread (also forgot who sorry) called abuse 'the gift that keeps on giving'. Ain't that the truth.

I've read my uncle's message and I think he believes her :(
He says that he'd noticed that Dm was never in the FB photos of the kids and has heard from DM recently and is "disturbed by the family situation which seems to have developed".
He can't imagine how "any occurances could be so bad as to result in a total breakdown of communication between you and your mother, two people who have come through so much together and has resulted in the loss of companionship of her grandchildren whom she loves so much."
"You could say that it's none of my business, however I am your only uncle and M's only brother and I have been there to give your family support in the past and will continue to help in any way I can.
I would love to hear from you G2B, if you have a minute drop me an email."

I think I have to write back and tell him why I don't want to talk to her. I assume he will pass it on to her, so it has to be what I am prepared for her to hear too.

You can't it's a waste of time and it'll make things worse. He is a winged monkey. Awful to think he's been fed all these lies and you can't defend yourself but it wouldn't achieve anything to reply All would be fed back, she'd deny and paint you in the wrong again.

I bet your mum is sitting at home tonight knowing she'll definitely hear from you now her brother is involved. I bet she feels pleased. Don't let her win. She's been awful and needs to realise no tactic can or will work. It ends now.

Oh crap. Def sounds bad. You could say you're disturbed by the way he seems to have arrived at a judgement having only heard one side of the story... Because he clearly has... Bullshit about "grandchildren" after her blatant and hideous favouritism and complete ignoring of your DD. Bullshit. Saying he "can't imagine" etc etc is basically saying there is no justification for you going NC with her.

Personally, I doubt you would gain anything from replying, but I can see why you're tempted. Just so you know, you don't have to reply. Although obviously if you value your relationship with him then it's tricky (sorry, can't remember if he's important to you specially) - unfortunately, going NC with one person can escalate like this.

But it sounds very much winged monkey to me and I doubt very much he'll be genuinely receptive to anything you have to say. (Would love to be wrong, though!)

I don't know if I can let this one go.

I've told him I've read his message and that it's a diffuclt and painful situation for me and I will respond later. I think I will tell him the bare bones and then if he doesn't believe it then so be it.

I suggest if you do reply good, keep it ice cold clinical and say something like "there are 2 sides to everything. The version my mother's told you and the truth. If you choose to believe her, that's up to you. Know that when a fracture this complete happens in a family, it is never on a whim, nor due to a trifling or petty reason. Express too that you are disappointed to see that he has chosen this path, and that one day he'll see how wrong he was.

Then wish him luck in life.

The prick.

YANBU Good, if you were your DB wouldn't have needed the THOUSANDS he spent on therapy! He's backing you to the hilt. Your uncle knows nothing.

This is fucking typical of her Good and yet another reason for her to remain OUT of your lives.

Block him and DM from FB btw, it's a potential feed for her.

I think he has no clue about her and will go for the "but she's your mother, they're her grandchildren" line. She's so insane that telling what she's done does sound like I'm making it up.
I think this hurts me more actually, not that we are massively close but that people will believe her and shun me.

The thing is whatever you said wouldn't be believed. You can't come back from this, even if you decided tomorrow to begin low contact again her behaviour in the last few days completely sabotaged that. The damage is irrevocable.

Remember, those that believe her are useless to you. State to them that if they knew the truth they'd be mortified and leave them behind. You have to shed them and keep moving.

Your conviction here actually helps strengthen your side.

Your uncle is no loss. Neither is your DM.

Losing contact with your uncle if he chooses to believe her (is your mother his sister?) is no great loss at all in the great scheme of things. He seems to have brought nothing positive into your own lives/

You need to cut the deadwood out. He is a winged monkey out to do only your mother's bidding. He is weak and should be ignored roundly.

Goood, ill go against everyone's advice and suggest you give him the benefit of the doubt. After all, he HAS only heard 1 side of the story and so many, many people cannot understand why someone would walk away from family, because their own is more or less happy.

If you explain in a neutral way, then he'll have the facts.

A few suggestions, maybe you can pick something out from 'em and use it if it's helpful:

• she attempted to break up your marriage by badmouthing your husband and was on the way to succeeding;
• you have, as someone put it, tried to maintain relations with her while still keeping to reasonable boundaries but that she has endlessly overridden your limits, no matter how politely asked,

• she has favoured one child over another to the point that it's caused real hurt. Several people have commented how obvious it is;

• that she expects contact literally every few hours each day, all day (that's the case, aye? from what you said? or have I misunderstood?

• that you've offered more than once to pay your way entirely on holidays and such like but that it's been rejected every time; then she rubs it in that you're on holiday on her expense

• you didn't want this and tried to keep a relationship going with her, but you found out recently that she has been giving a highly distorted version of the events to people (as indeed she has done to him).

• Your children and husband and family life have to come first and you have reached the point of no contact because she pushed you to choose him, or her. Also you can't stand the drama; you don't want a drunken mother hammering on your front door in public after you haven't spoken to her for less than half a day.

You could also say that while there have been dramatic incidents it's also the smaller, corrosive stuff that's bent you to breaking point. People expect grand dramatic fallouts but it's just not always like that.

"you regret very much that he's been brought into this quarrel, but you're sorry, you just can't do this any more".

Feel for you, Good, this is just a nightmare. But you will come out the other side.

Also unless he lives in her pocket, I bet he doesn't know how bad she's become. He may not entirely believe it until he -does- simply because he can't imagine the reality. But I do think that saying it once is fair to him.

If it gets back to her - does it matter?

I agree with Meerka in this situation, particularly because I think you're going to really struggle to not respond. I'd also keep it very emotion free (it's the emotion that your mother is craving), and perhaps just put it in a bullet pointed list. 'These are the sorts of things that have been going on continuously for years. For the sake of my family, I need this sort of drama out of my life now...'

I'd also say at the end that you love and respect him (if true) but you're not prepared to discuss the situation with your mother beyond this one email.

And then stand by that completely.

So this explains her silence good she fired off the email to your uncle and sat back and waited for your response. I can just imagine her thought process, ' ah she won't be expecting this, this will make her see sense.'

I really really wish he hadn't sent that. I guess he's just trying to patch things up but no way can he do that when he is not armed with the facts. I too think a brief reply would make you feel better but after that, disengage.

Good luck.

Agreed, ask him not to discuss the situation because it will only make a nasty situatoin worse. "Your mother is very well aware of why you've got to this stage. You've tried very hard to get things to a liveable-level, it's not worked and you just don't want to be drawn in any further."

I think it's pointless. He'll feed it back to her, she'll deny it, he'll email again. Then she'll start calling and texting again saying 'how could you day that' etc.

I wouldn't bother at all and it may even make you look like the bad guy with all the nonsense she's already fed him in the past about the house etc.