"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

It's July 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting

This is some of what I would like to say to my uncle:

I gather my mother has been in touch and I imagine she has been telling you some rather strange things. This is very awkward since it might appear that a family argument is overspilling. But for my own peace of mind I would like to explain that her behaviour at Christmas 2012 left me with no choice but to move out. It was a decision painfully reached after much provocation. I have done my best to maintain a relationship with her since then, seeing her every single week with the children and inviting her for Christmas, something I think most people would not have been prepared to do after the things she said and the way she behaved, but I have struggled with her blatant favoritisim of one grandchild and total disinterest in the other.

I have my reasons for not wanting to speak to her at the moment, it is not a decision I take lightly but her behaviour and harrassment of me over the last couple days leaves me no choice. She knows very well why I do not want to speak to her. For the moment I need some breathing space from this endless drama.

I am very sorry for intruding our problem on you.

Dbro says "don't get involved with her triangulation madness". He's right, I know that really. But it's not fair. I'll just have to hope my uncle can see it for what it is and recognise her behaviour as similar to their sister's (who is just like DM and almost certainly a narc too).

nods good letter. Probably the right advice from your bro! maybe send the letter to him instead, just to have taken some action? very frustrating when your hands are tied

Yes, I think so too. DH's dad can be a right twat and they have a "complex" relationship. I think perhaps on some level we saw that in each other and it became part of our shared experience.

Or maybe just this:

I gather my mother has been in touch and I imagine she has been telling you some rather strange things. This is very awkward since it might appear that a family argument is overspilling. But for my own peace of mind I would like to explain I have my reasons for not wanting to speak to her at the moment, it is not a decision I take lightly but her behaviour at Christmas 2012 and harrassment of me since Thursday leaves me no choice. She knows very well why I do not want to speak to her. For the moment I need some breathing space from this endless drama.

I am very sorry for intruding our problem on you.

I won't send it, feel better for writing it. Sending it is just playing her games again.

Meerka The nausea seems to be slightly worse at the moment, have had to start taking the anti-sickness meds again. Stress probably doesn't help but I'm thankful that it is miles better than it was at it's worst. Thank you so much for asking

Good Glad you can see that you would just be playing your mother's games again by sending the email. It is like a carousel, you have stepped off, unfortunately there is usually something there to tempt you back on but just remember it will still keep spinning around and around getting you nowhere.

mampam hope you feel better soon. I had HG in both pregnancies and it was horrendous. Many sympathies.

god, you too. Bloody horrible disease isn't it.

With DS it was awful up to about 16 weeks and bad til about 20 and then fine. With DD it was all the way through. I went to the GP at about 7 weeks and cried all over him and told him if he couldn't make it stop I wanted to jump in front of a bus :(

it does make you feel like that doesn't it. It's extremely hard getting treatment in the Netherlands too, they have an anti-med thing that has some sense to it but is taken far too far. They prefer that you terminate than prescribe even the cyclizine-equivilent.

Oh well, the Pipsqueak and I both came through in the end. Admittedly with some outstanding medical support in other tricky areas. Still get the cold sweat at how close we came to loosing him due to uterine infection and sepsis.

We were so very, very lucky.

Sounds very traumatic, meerka. I've just remembered another narc thing about batshit crazy mother actually relating to my pregnancy with DD.

I've heard that about the Netherlands, must make things even harder. Here in Spain they will prescribe but only metacloporide (sp) which was sort of meh for me, better than nothing but not great.

I'm a bit surprised, there's some excellent drugs out there which are baby-safe and meto can have some nasty side effects for the mother with some people. Ondansetron, the most powerful, is actually the best studied too except for the first-line antihistamines like cyclizine.

It was a bad preg yeah. HG, the sepsis and then two failed inductions at the end ... I went into meltdown after they sent me home after the second, was still sick as heck and had father-trouble and just couldn't cope any more. Still getting over it all, it'll take a while. It was very hard on our older son too. The Squeak is just absolutely wonderful though.

I found the meto made me feel dopey and still nauseous and even still vomited sometimes. I think it's a money thing here.

It's cheaper than Ondansetron.

yeah, ondansetron is not cheap ... but the most effective 'normal' med short of steroids, where there does seem to be a heightened risk to the baby. Though that risk can be less than the risks from dehydration ...

mampam how hideous to have them next door and mil's sister sounds vile.

Hello all...just checking in from hols...thanks for replies on first page of thread...Meerka, yes so hard to disentangle....trying hard to.
Good to - just read through your epic battle to go NC - big unMN hug from me and thanks for sharing....helps so much...hope this is some comfort in a tiny way...I will no doubt be experiencing similar....our Ms particular patterns sound v similar. Batshit defcon 1 LOL but sorry you are having it...you are being so strong and deserve so much better x
I like the letters people have been starting to construct...will have a go at some point.
So far on hols I have first three days of 'I'll-health related' texts...I stopped responding...so 4 days of peace (joy!) then a phone call to relative we are staying with to create a flying monkey (I didn't engage) then today text do I need a cash loan?!! Er no...and especially not from you!!! Also some 'hope you enjoyed...wheedling shit about an activity we'd done that she'd elicited info from relative.'
Not responding to flying monkey or bribery text.....except on here 'LEAVE US IN PEACE WE ARE ON HOliday tO GET A BREAK FROM THINGS WHICH VERY MUCH MEANS YOU!!!'
thank you all and have a nice day xxxx

My DM used to do that yong, it was to show me (I think) that even if I wasn't going to contact her, and was depriving her of information to tell everyone and so perpetuate the illusion that she's still a part of my life, she'd get it from others so she can live the myth all by herself.

Tell your relative that you're not interested in her continual contact/harassment and that you don't want them dragged into it, so kindly don't furnish her with information about your comings and goings, as it won't help long term.

Hello yongnian, sympathies if your M is anything like mine. Haven't heard anything from mine today either, peace is nice but I'm sure there's more to come. Defcon 1 was Dbro's phrase :) My phone has learnt "batshit" for predictive text, I've typed it so often.
The thing is, I wasn't even trying to go NC at first. I just wanted a bit of peace after hearing all about her slagging of me. A moment to think through. But no. She knew something was up so starts the emotional terrorism to bring me back into line, only a matter of hours after I'd seen her. The fact that I wouldn't speak to her instantly when she wanted me to, that has unleashed the whirlwind and the only response I can manage to that is to close the door on her. At least for the foreseeable future. She has shown herself to be completely, irredemably mad. And she can cry all she likes to Dbro and other family members, she's not sorry, she's FUCKING ANGRY. I haven't had any crying or apologies from her.

Hello all, sorry I'm not v good at staying with the thread, I find it hard to post consistently but I do read.

Good, am kind of torn between being really sorry that you've been going through all this shit with your mother, cause it's so horrible, but also being kind of glad for you in a weird way.... Just mean that taking the long view that this, however awful it is now, is at least better than the drip drip of constant misery you would otherwise have had for years to come if she hadn't ramped it up but just kept on with her soul destroying crap, so there is a positive side to this somehow.

I'm not being very articulate. I hope you know what I mean. for you.

Talking of mothers pretending they are still in touch when they're not... My mother was in so much denial about us being NC that one year she sent sent a Xmas card to my Uncle (her DBro) talking about my and my DH's holiday in France that summer.

Only we hadn't been/weren't going on holiday that year, to France or anywhere else.

That is batshit, isn't it??!!

She also used to write to/phone my MIL to try and get information but still pretending everything was normal. And most recently (Xmas) before last I think) she sent a card to MIL saying "sorry to hear you've been well [sic]" as if she was in the loop somehow, even though nobody was relaying any info to her at all... MIL actually did have a couple of major health issues that year and was a bit upset/confused by it all.

Ach, it's just shit. We've been NC for years now and it's definitely the least worst option but that's all it is. It's not good. Nobody wants to be NC with their family, I think - everybody would love to have a family they could have a workable relationship with - but it just isn't always possible. And then you get this feeling from people that you're the bad guy for cutting out your parents.... First you're the victim of their abuse, then you get the blame for being cruel, double whammy. Fuck, it's crap.

Talking that's just mental about the holiday in France! I don't understand people like this. I know totally what you were trying to say. It was awful before and then fairly bad when we moved out and at least if I have the space from her that NC brings it's something. But you're right, NC isn't easy. I don't feel good about it. She keeps saying, "you owe me an explanation" "please tell me what this is about" and I feel bad, but she does know really and she'll just use it as a way in and to beat me with. But, the whole thing of other people not understanding and not even being able to explain defend myself...it's hard.

Hey talking nice to see you again =) I still havent forgotten our conversatoin but babystuff has taken over for a while.

Hope you are surviving and doing well without spider-tentacles of miserable mothers dragging you down.

Hi Meerka. Spider tentacles is spot on. My mother definitely has spider quality and her vile web weaving seems to be getting to me rather more recently than it has done for a long time, for some reason. Maybe it's the school holidays - most people have some kind of contact with their families at some point in the long holidays, most of the people we know are away with them or seeing them at some point and it really rubs it in that we just don't have that.

Yesterday I was on a train with DS (not a route we travel regularly) and we stopped at the place where my father grew up, and I was thinking how in a "normal" world I would be saying to DS that this is where Grandad lived when he was a boy... But because of the way things are, I didn't say anything, just contained it as usual.

Good, yes, it is just so hard. You're right though, it's not that she doesn't understand, it's that she doesn't want to understand. And because of that, nothing you could say would get through to her.

When I was thinking of contacting my parents my therapist would always ask me to imagine the possible consequences and how I would feel in the different scenarios - if they didn't reply at all, if they replied and made it all my fault, if they denied everything, if they pretended to listen but actually kept still making it my fault... I think that's quite a good rule of thumb, to imagine those outcomes and how they would leave you feeling, as opposed to how you would feel having not contacted them. It can give you some perspective on whether or not to try.

Because the reply "I hear what you're saying and I recognise I've hurt you and I'm really sorry and I will do everything in my power to make it right" is obviously the one thing we will never hear from them. Would anything else be of any use at all?

I do wonder if I will ever get to a point where I care so little about their response that I could just write to them for my own benefit, to tell my truth, and not be hurt all over again by their comeback. Dear parents, you're lying, hypocritical, abusive scumbags, everything in your life is a lie, and I never deserved to be abused. Hm. That would go down well, wouldn't it.

Hello everyone and welcome to the new people who haven't been on previous threads

Have been accepted to university 100 miles away to study psychology (BSc). Will have to move and it's heart-breaking to say goodbye to the supportive members of my family (local cousins, aunts, uncles), and many friends. I put on FB that if people aren't prepared to do their bit to keep a relationship with me going, then I will be affording them the same privilege. At the moment, when it comes to my family, I'm the one putting in all the effort while the others sit back and take me 'for granted', as my good friend puts it.

None of my brothers and their OHs have spoken to me since, with the exception of my BIL. I've noticed again that my brothers and their families have been out at the park etc with the kids and not one person has picked up the phone/text/FB me to ask if our kids would like to come along. In a way, I'm looking forward to moving away. If my brothers ring me, I'm in 2 minds about answering the phone to them.

TBH, my DH said that I could be lying in ICU in hospital and they probably wouldn't give a shit. He also said it's probably because I'm treating them how they treat me and they don't like it when they get a taste of their own medicine. What angers him the most is that our kids are being left out when they don't have anything to do with the whole thing. It doesn't bother me as my brothers showing themselves up for the people they are. DH says I'm keeping a dignified silence and letting them show themselves up. I didn't realise I was doing that as I've just been chatting to friends on FB and keeping in touch with them. At least some people are willing to put in the effort to keep a friendship going. Ach well tis the way of the world at times

Hi all. Good for you Chiggers I think the distance will be helpful to you.

My uncle has just sent me a FB msg asking if I got his e mail. (I didn't) He's asked for my e mail address, which I've given him and has gone offline. Do you think he's become a winged monkey?