Is this EA, or stress or just a bad patch?

[ToughTimes1]

I am really confused.

Been with DH for 7 1/2 years. On the whole I would describe us as having a good relationship - very good friends, have a good laugh, both committed, he's very family orientated and hands on with our DS (16 months) who he adores.

BUT when we argue, it's horrible. I appreciate people argue, but he (IMHO) is unreasonable, though never seems to see this. He flies off the handle about whatever we are rowing about and is very shouty, he has also called me names in the past - not often, but really not nice, and a handful of times we have argued in front of DS which is something I have never wanted to do and feel awful about but when I have said this mid argument - i.e. 'stop shouting in front of DS, he's looking worried' or whatever, he has said I'm using him in the argument or similar. Afterwards he has said he didn't mean that, was angry, blah blah and knows it's wrong, but I feel sick about us behaving that way in front of Ds, in particular him as his tone is awful and it goes from quick bicker to full blown temper so quickly. We are probably arguing once every one to two months.

DH suffers from stress, he has always been quite stressy, getting in a pickle over small things. Work gets on top of him, being busy gets on top of him, being tired, yep, gets on top of him, and in apologies (or more like explanations) it's always about the stress. At the weekend we had a huge row, the biggest in a long, long time and he was awful. He accused me of nagging him, not caring about him, saying it was fine for me as I'm swanning about all week while he works. I'm a sahm which we both wanted but he used it against me like I am living off the fat of his land and twiddling my thumbs all day. I pointed out I don't stop in the day, I do all that I can around the house, I get up with DS in the night - which if I was working too I would expect to be shared, and if he resented it then I would work - I don't want to or feel I should be indebted to him for doing something that we both felt was right for our family, let alone having it used against me in a row.

It was in front of DS, so I took him out for a few hours, telling H that I would leave him to do what he wanted with his weekend (the row had started because I'd had the nerve to start a chat about measuring up for a new kitchen cupboard and asking if he could put some shelves up this weekend and apparently he wasn't getting a minute to just chill out..) and that I wouldn't bother with the jobs I'd planned that morning (cleaning up for pil staying), as he obviously didn't think what I contributed counted anyway. He didn't want me to go, said he wanted to talk but I told him that unless he'd had a big turn around in the last five minutes regarding the horrible way he'd behaved, I didn't want to, and I went, and I'm glad I did.

I've been reading on here about EA and some things I've read have quite chilled me. I've got used to the way things are over the years and now feel like I can't see the wood for the trees with it. I don't know if we are a fairly normal couple who don't get on sometimes, or if I've been a bit brainwashed to accepting how he is. I feel so confused and shaky about our whole set up now. When we talk about arguments he always says he behaves this way because of how I talk to him and that we have to look at the whole picture not me spouting 'the headlines' of what he's said. He has been convincing me of this, but shouldn't actually he be taking responsibility for what he says? He has admitted he knows he can be difficult and has apologised often, but as above it does seem to be with a 'But...' attached.

He also has said it's because he's so stressed with things, can't handle stuff like I can and needs more time out. again, I have adapted to this but am getting resentful. Life is busy, especially family life. To me although I also like time to relax, and we really do do that, I also want to socialise, get stuff done, and I accept that's how it is and that's how most other people are too... Although I appreciate I don't really know what goes on in other people's lives.

I'm sorry this is so long, I didn't want to drip feed but feel like I have really rambled. I guess I want him to take responsibility for his stress and try and do something about both it and his negative behaviour towards me, but I really don't know where to start in talking to him about it.

Any advice, experience or other perspectives most welcome. Thanks.

Ups and downs are normal. Someone will come along soon to give you more of an insight into EA but I will say that it takes two to argue so you are also responsible for getting into these things when your son is present. You could always walk out if the room with your dc or put him in his cot if you feel the urgency to have the argument out.

Thanks for replying QL and I agree with what you are saying. DH doesn't like me removing myself from the argument, he sees it as me not wanting to sort things / being abandoned whereas I want to take myself away from something unpleasant that is going anywhere good. This has been pre DS as well. I have tried where possible to remove us from it, sometimes my temper has got the better of me though. I guess I don't think it's good that we are even in this situation, of him flying off over things he shouldn't and me having to either fight my corner or get DS and me away from it. It doesn't feel right but I have no idea if this is 'normal' or not.

Sorry that should be isn't going anywhere good, not is!

It's hard to know if he's EA without specific examples, but from what you have said, he blows up with a temper over small things and is 'stressy' all the time. Being 'stressed' when used as an excuse to basically hurl abuse whenever you feel like it would be unacceptable, but maybe he genuinely is quite unhappy with this set-up?

You both agreed for you to be a SAHM, but for him to refer to this as 'swanning around' is completely unacceptable imo. Looking after a tiny baby while he's out being Mr Important at work is not comparable. It seems like there is some built up resentment towards you, which is worrying.

Have things got worse since the birth of your child? What was your work/carreer situation before, did he respect you?

OP, the relationship you describe is not a balanced one. Your DH appears to believe that he deserves the lion's share of consideration in your marriage, that his opinions carry more weight than yours, that his wants/wishes/needs are worth more than yours. Moreover, he uses verbal intimidation and manipulation to maintain this imbalance in your relationship (because the imbalance benefits him). For these reasons, yes, I would call this EA.

It is all very well to say that it takes two to argue, but manipulative and controlling people tend to employ an armory of tactics that make "normal" arguing impossible. You might start off expressing a difference of opinion to your spouse, which is countered by an accusation of something that is an exaggerated (and more unreasonable) version of what you actually said, so that you try to defend yourself and explain that you haven't said x, you've said y. Or you get a blanket accusation that you "never agree with them" and you get diverted into defending yourself by giving examples of times you have agreed with them. Or a past mistake is revived as an example of how you're not perfect (and therefore can't disagree with them) and you end up defending yourself over some misdemeanour from the distant past.

These are diversionary tactics - the point of the behaviour is to deflect attention from his behaviour (e.g. refusing to do something he should be doing) onto yours. So it is often impossible to have a reasoned "argument" with someone who behaves like your DH.

However you are in control of how you respond to him, and there are things that you can do to stop a disagreement escalating into unpleasantness. Rule 1 is don't be distracted from the main topic. So if your row starts about DIY and how he doesn't want to do it, then you say "I mentioned the DIY as a suggestion. If you don't want to do it today, that's fine.". You keep on saying this, no matter what he comes up with. If he throws in random accusations about other things, you say "We weren't talking about that. We were talking about the DIY. I mentioned the DIY as a suggestion, etc, etc". Rule 2 is don't raise your voice or lose your temper, because the minute you do you are on the back foot.

It is hard to do. It requires effort and practice at remaining aware of his attempts to derail conversations into arguments. It goes without saying that he shouldn't behave like this. But changing your responses would be a first step to minimising the potential for unpleasant arguments to impact upon your DS. It might also open the way for a more general evaluation of the balance in your relationship.

Thank you both so much for taking the time to reply and give me your views.

Squid - He has always earned a fair bit more than me, between 15-20k depending on his job. Plus he has brought a lot of savings to the relationship allowing for the home we have and our wedding, but it has never really been an issue. I do think he respected me in my work, there has definitely always been a thing of stress related to work with him though, which means he talks about it quite a lot, places a lot on it, but I guess that is fair enough and people are just different? He did the 'swanning around' or similar thing once before and I told him how it made me feel, like he didn't respect me or value what I brought to the family - like my role wasn't as important as his. he was very apologetic, said he respects what I do so much and loves that I can be there for DS, that he couldn't do half of what I do blah blah and it's just he was angry, feeling pressure to provide etc. I just don't know as I believed him but it's now happened again and as you say it seems as though he is really resenting me and my role.

Our relationship is actually better since having DS. We didn't have the easiest journey and pre and during pregnancy seemed to really sort us out and we stopped sweating the small stuff. I felt he really changed, positively, it seemed to give him a new lease of life and he completely adores DS. He always has energy for him but then does moan about being tired etc. a lot which does pee me off. Yep, we've had a baby, we're tired, join the club! It's been in the last 3 months that things seem to have gone downhill and I can't think why that is, other than me officially becoming SAH, following mat leave.

Mrs B, so much of what you said has hit home unfortunately - I think I've been in a bit of a fog with it over the years, unable to see how things are when we argue. It is exactly as you describe - it isn't a 'normal' argument - it never is and it really doesn't feel healthy. I lose my footing as it's never about the diy/work/whatever, it develops very quickly into something else, it becomes 'You never do this, you never hear my side' etc. etc. and I get completely overwhelmed and stuck. This time it became about the fact that he'd fainted at work 6 weeks ago. It was out of the blue, first time, he'd been feeling ill and hot, was tested afterwards and everything seemed normal and it hasn't happened since. He doesn't seem able to let go of it however and though I feel for him, I'm a bit like 'let's move on' - or at least I have. I don't really understand what else there is to do. I haven't said as much, but I don't keep talking about it, and in our row it was that 'You don't care about me, you never ask about it, my mum texts me every day to see how I am (!) and you don't give a sh**'

I feel quite embarrassed writing that down... To me, it is such a self-absorbed attitude and I don't even know what he wants from me - nursing? today he said he is genuinely panicked about it and goes light-headed sometimes when he thinks about it, so I don't think he is being consciously difficult (not to excuse what he said above), but I do think it is still a genuine issue for him, I just don't know why.

Thanks for the advice about staying on topic in disagreements and also staying calm, you are so right about that, as difficult as it can be.

I really want to discuss the weekend, and his behaviour and attitude to me - I don't want to argue but I don't want to back down really either. How do I respond to, 'I only said that because you said this?' attitude? Thank you.

It doesn't sound like stress, or a bad patch. It sounds like a very destructive style of arguing mainly coming from his side. He's also being aggressive and accusatory towards you.

When you draw attention to your son's distress, I don't like the way that - instead of removing himself or quieting down as most responsible adults would - he accuses you of using your son. This is a very low and aggressive thing to do, and suggests he'd rather sneer or score a point than consider his son's welfare.

Can I suggest a look at the resources at the top of this thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2155666-Support-thread-for-those-in-Emotionally-Abusive-Relationships-30

Your H ought to see his GP if he's genuinely worried about a repeat of the fainting attack. Perhaps he's got some anxiety about it and that's causing symptoms. But this has nothing directly to do with you, and he should not use it as another reason to be aggressive towards you.

Thanks WB, I appreciate your insights and reassurance that I'm not going mad with my concerns. Destructive arguing is a very good term for it, I will say that to him aS I've always struggled to explain why / how our arguments aren't healthy.

I've had a look at the link, thanks. It does concern me. He's not out and out 'textbook' but there are a few things that ring alarm Bells, especially that neither of us may realise there is EA happening.

I don't know what to do. This really isn't how I saw things going but now that I've started clicking with things, I'm being flooded with memories of bad rows and things he has said over the years and a few he has done and I don't understand why I stayed when it was earlyish in our relationship. I guess I'm a bit older and wiser now but things are so much more complicated. It's not even that I want to ltb, I do love him, and there is a lot of good, but I really don't want to continue accepting this.