2 decades of abuse, yet my dd is...............(sorry this is so long)

[whitehairdilemma]

please help me.
I am 70 years old, and have spent/endured the last 2 decades of my life watching/suffering alongside my dd the physical ..emotional..financial abuse from her narcissistic terrifying husband...now ex.

(I made pages of statements to the police regarding the long time abuse, but when they contacted my dd she denied it)

I even had a police marker on my house as he sent threats against me via my dd.

he brought women into my dd's home while she was at work...he never worked himself, thought he was too good for work.

he totally destroyed her career through financial demands....she appeased him through fear, for a bit of peace....

they ended up fleeing abroad....before he told a mutual friend he was going to "trade her in for a younger model".

once he found this younger model, incidentally the mother of their 2 dc's best friends, he threw my dd out of the family home, which of course she was paying for....he never worked there either.
he even married another women for a residency visa.

my dd managed to establish herself again, but he would never give her any peace..threats to burn her house down, anyway eventually he was deported.

as soon as he was back in the uk, he found a widow on a dating site and scared her into giving him thousands of pounds....she had found my phone number in his phone and rang me terrified for her safety.

but there is so much more, but I need to get to the bottom line.

this is that line.

last night my dd skyped me, and she is preparing to return to the uk in a couple of weeks, which of course I am happy about.

suddenly a thought came into my head out of nowhere..which shook me to the core.

"will you promise me one thing" I asked dd.
"you will never get back with him when you come back"

he answer kept me awake all night.
"I can't promise that mum" she replied, explaining that it's best to keep the family together.

for fuck's sake she has been away from his control for the last 5/6 years, yet he is still managing to control her...he knows she has 2 successful businesses and it's like it's come full circle.

I am even considering going nc with dd, though I love her dearly, at my age, I am not strong enough to go through this all again.

I w ant to say directly that if she goes back with him I don't want any contact again, but fear that if I do that he will isolate her as he did for years before.
once isolated her racked the abuse and control up, but the mutual friend was invaluable, this time there will be no one to tell me.

by the way, my dd is 52.

I really don't know what the best advice it. I suppose it depends a lot on your daughters personality as to what path is the best. I know I would be wanting to sit down and remind her off all the bad things that happened and make it quite clear as to how big a mistake it would be to go back to him. Why is she even still talking to him?? I would also be letting her know how displeased I was and that I would never be going to their house and would find it difficult to support such a thing as I didn't believe any good would come of it. I would also be debating in my head whether to speak to the new partner as to his views on the move and how did he feel about moving so close to this person, but again ,that probably isn't the best move, its just the kind of thing I would do out of desperation!

"A relationship with boundaries with your daughter" - might look like this - agree to meet or talk weekly or monthly for lunch - or doing something you both like doing - fun and light hearted - but agree that you will never talk about money or her ex.

She really is a grown woman and has been separated by significant time and distance from her ex - but looks like she is going to relapse. She knows what happened before, knows the patterns and consequences if she is so compulsed to go down that route again - you should not support or enable that behavior but you can still have a part of her as going totally nc could maybe be worse for you.

I accept that there is nothing more that I can do now.
many years ago, I went to her office, she was looking half dead, I begged her to leave him, but she reiterated it's good to "keep the family together"

I will tell her, remind her, what hell it's been.
but it's up to her.
she is walking into the lions den now, just a few days time

This is so awful for you, OP. I can't imagine how you feel. Her statement it's best to keep the family together just seems utterly illogical. This 'family' hasn't been together for at least 5 years from what you say, so how can it be best to 'keep' it together? This feels like something he has said to her, and she's reverted to her hypnotised behaviour where she can't think for herself.

I don't understand why she would be bringing her partner back if she wants to get back together with the ex? Or is he staying abroad whilst she comes back on an extended visit? It sounds like the partner knows quite a lot about the abuse, he's likely to twig if she announces they're settling somewhere near the appalling ex? But alas if she is already under the control of the ex he has little option but to leave her, I guess.

Did she ever have any counselling or go to the Women's Aid course for people escaping from abuse? Without it I think her chances of making a long term recovery from this is not so good; she will be very vulnerable to fresh attempts by him (or frankly another abuser) to manipulate her.

Will her children be safe if she gets back together with this man? I think there's a different issue if there are children to safeguard. But beyond that, I see no viable alternative to you going no contact, even if this will play into his hands and make them Romeo and Juliet with the world against them. You can't live with waiting for the next crisis, over and over again.

She is addicted to him, which is why she is going back. Yes he's an abuser, but she's an addict.

Imagine if her addiction were a substance, like alcohol or drugs: the story would be exactly the same, except for this difference, that it is a person she is addicted to, not a substance.

You can talk to her until you're blue in the face (and I'm sure you have), she wants her fix. She doesn't care how much she is hurting other people, the top priority is her fix and she'll do anything to get it. Sadly, it will come before everything and everyone, which includes her kids

I say this because you seem to think he is the unwitting victim - she isn't. He is a nightmare on stilts to be sure, a horror on every front, but she is not unwitting, she knows what she wants and she's going to get it. She is not the innocent victim.

I can't imagine the pain if this for you, but i do have friends who have seriously drug-addicted children . it may be an idea to look into orgs such as Al Anon, which, though it was primarily for close relatives of alcoholics, also addresses being a close relative of an addict. You will learn some really effective skills to set boundaries, detach, protect yourself and gain the heartfelt support of others who are going through the same unbearable heartache.

I'm so sorry op.

*you seem to think SHE is the unwitting victim

springydaffs - my thoughts exactly -- see my post above @18.25

I have carefully read and inwardly digested each and every reply.
thank you all.

last night, dd skyped as she said she would.
she is really excited that in just 15 days she will be back in the uk after so many years abroad.

with your replies ringing round my mind, I said I wanted to make my position clear ...if she went back to the abusive and dangerous ex-.

previously she had her own law firm, which the ex managed to use every penny(he never worked)on extravagant holidays and high priced vehicles until she became bankrupt.
fast forward a few years she is financially successful once again, this is his motive in catching her, until she looses it all again, and she is falling for it..

dd became angry, saying we have already spoken about it, but we haven't, only that I wanted her to promise not to get back with him , which immediately she said she couldn't.

for the last 14 or so years her younger sister went nc, after the ex's abusive and threatening behaviour.

but out of the blue a few months ago, she emailed dd to try to reconcile.

last night i managed to tell dd that if her dsis found out that she was back with the ex, she would go nc again, this time forever, and that I would too.
dd quietly said she wouldn't go back, but I don't believe her for one second.

I know that the ex will "suggest" this restaurant or that, holidays again, vehicles and history will repeat itself.(he's broke, on benefits)

dd will lose control of her 2 companies as she will have to work them using a time difference of a few hours, which that will be when the ex will want to go out.

sorry, this all sounds crazy, well it is I know.

I can't tell dd directly all the implications of her future plans, because she won't listen.

should I email my fears once and for all?
or should I just let her ruin her life again?

Could you speak to her current partner? I really dont know what to suggest, but I really feel for you

I think there may have been a bit of a cut-and-paste problem in the middle of your post, whitehairdilemma, but I got the gist.

I would not email. You have made your position clear and it's also clear that she feels pressured to commit to a course of action when she feels it is her choice. Bringing it up again when there's no evidence (yet) of anything happening with the ex is just more likely to push her towards it.

This is where you need to detach with love, as they advise the families of addicts. You cannot stop her if she wants to go back down this road, only choose not to participate. You've made your position clear and confirmed that of her younger sister. Doing more now will only inflame the situation and make it feel like it's just her and her ex against the world. Only he understands her, and all the other crap he fed for years to keep her under his spell.

Let me ask again as I did above: will her children be safe? Are they adults now?

yes,
dd and her ex against the world,that is how they behaved from the outset,
they joined forces ,a bit of the school bully in the playground.
until ex turned against dd, then she learned what happens if you go against the bully.
that was why she became bankrupt, attempting to appease him to keep the peace.

but today, she has a a loving long time partner, who adores dd, it is so hard to see her throw it all away.
he would happily move back to the uk with her and share their lives together.
maybe dd isn't "burning her boats" , seeing how it goes with the ex, and keeping the partner on the backburner?

how true, if you want to know the future look at the past, but dd hasn't got a clue of what she is letting herself in for...again.

her 2 sons are adults now, kind, caring and loveable.
once their father was deported, they managed to live a calm and peaceful life, but now it could be destroyed.

unless, does a leopard change it's spots, haha don't think so.

no wonder my hair is white!!!!!!!!

I'm glad that her children aren't directly affected. I would imagine they will keep their distance from this car crash.

The trouble is, nice new partner probably lacks the intensity of emotion the knobhead ex invokes - I can imagine them imagining themselves to be tempestuous lovers a la Burton and Taylor, destined to be together but unable to make it work (some good jewellery though). Until she breaks through that illusion she will always go back. It sounds as if she never really addressed the trauma of the relationship when she left last time - and you know the saying about failing to learn the lessons of history.

Only she can save herself. Alas all you can do now is step back and let fate take its course. I hope the next few months are not too painful for you. On the plus side, your hair can't get any whiter

Hello again

You must feel like you're going round and round in circles. I think for now, don't email. What you have just said to her will hopefully be in her mind and give her something to think about. Is it possible to let her sons and sister know what's going on? Maybe they could speak to her?

I wonder, if she considers going back , she cant be that keen on the new person, I don't know. I would still be very tempted to say something about how close he is living to where your daughter will be (maybe by accident?)

I think for the time being I would be quite straight and almost formal with her, to make it clear that you aren't happy about the whole thing.

Best wishes :)

couldn't say anything to her sister,
she would simply run for the hills.

it has taken her years to consider a reconciliation, after the misery and fall out of the abuse.

no, I won't email, just wait to see how it all pans out (a disaster I am positive)

dd adores her new partner, he has asked her to marry him many times
( I think dd is hedging her bets, I have told her to be honest with herself).
so for now and the next few weeks, I have said as much as I could and warned dd, so it's up to her.

if she neglects her business and looses it all , as it happened before there is nothing I can do.

if anyone has any further suggestions or has been in a similar situation, I would be pleased to hear and learn from you

During the trauma and escape from the past did you dd see a counselor or have support from WA? If so is there any merit in you trying to get her to engage with them again so that they can somehow remind her of the past and tell her what the future is with these people ie they never change?

Or was there another close friend who she confided in who knew the back story who could pick up with her?

Could you speak to the sons so that you all have the same message to tell her? Are the boys coming back to the UK - are they here? do they have a constructive relationship with their Dad? The "bringing/keeping the family together" motivation is a bit odd if they are now adults --is she trying to make up for their childhoods trying to (re)create a happy nuclear family unit?

Clearly they are already in contact. Why did she not say yes to the new partners marriage proposal? why is the new partner not coming now? when will he arrive?

She is deluded and believes this time it will be different. You must protect yourself and not get involved in the inevitable drama. But somehow I just feel that total nc plays into his hands - and does not allow her an escape route if necessary.

deepest,
dd felt she could deal with the trauma, refusing counselling, instead relied on anti depressants for years.

she also lost contact with friends around the years this happened.
I am in contact with one in particular, who recently asked how dd was, but when I told dd, she said she didn't want anything to do with the past! yet is prepared to get back with ex.

she didn't say, yes to new partner, saying after the turbulent past she has trust issues, though she agrees that he loves her completely, but she is afraid to commit.

the new partner is working on contract so until dd says she is prepared to commit he will wait for her, then come to the uk.

I believe dd thinks this time it will be different but since being deported back some years ago, he has used and abused more vulnerable women for financial gain, exactly what he will do when dd returns.

so, despite amazing intelligence dd hasn't the common sense she was born with.
which I told her face to face, and she agreed .

whitehair this man sounds a truly evil man.

your daughter cannot be helped until she wises up. As someone said, she is addicted. A victim, but no one can help her until she is able to help herself.

I am so sorry, but I think that you have done all you can and you should not mention him again. Your daughter knows how afraid you are, the short convo you had will have very clearly told her that. Bringing it up again and again will only make it worse. Beyond that, you must protect yourself.

I am so sorry for this devastating situation. I'll hope for a miracle for her and for you and that she can keep her distance from him.

I feel for you so much OP. How can this evil man have such a hold over a clever woman who has the security of a loving family and partner? It beggars belief.

My goddaughter is in a terrible relationship but can't see how nasty her lying partner is. The rest of the family want her to run from him but she won't. We don't know what to do as it has to come from her.

Is there any way to get this man deported again?

I feel for you, OP. Not such a long-running story but my dds partner was abusive, for the umpteenth time when their baby was two-months old. They split up but in my head I had decided that I would have nothing more to do with her if she went back to him. Quite cynically I felt that if was just her, it is her life to destroy, but taking a baby into that situation, I would have called social services as well. However I didn't tell her that, because I know her and threats are not an option.

Yes we still love them and yes we are there to bail them out inasmuch we can, but it is not the same as when they were children.

Oh OP, what a sorry situation. I gather your DGSs are both living away from home now, so wouldn't be as affected as if they were still living with their mother - but still, would she not listen to them?

What "family" is she trying to keep together, exactly? If she gets back together with her abuser, she loses her mother, her sister, possibly her brother and possibly both sons - how exactly is that "keeping the family together"? Has she ever looked at it like that? Are all the losses worth it, especially since the one she'd end up with is just a turd?

I do believe that someone has already said it - he is her drug, she is an addict. She might have been "dry" for a few years, but all he has to do is take her out to dinner and charm the knickers off her and she'll be straight back where she was, as though she'd had her first whisky after years of being dry, or her first heroin shot after years of being clean. And she'll be right back where she was before all those abuse-free years, just like that.

I think you are right, that your only recourse is to tell her that you'll be NC if she gets back with him and all the time she stays with him, but you'll still be here for her if she gets away from him again.

Try representing some of these ideas to her - she may never have thought about it from the wider family's perspective before (despite everything that's happened) and see - and definitely get her onto MN!

"dry for a few years...............take her out for dinner......................straight back where she was........exactly my fears.
sums it up completely

sadly, the last few years have been relatively peaceful.
as he was deported back to the uk, but now dd is coming back to the uk, same country, same town virtually same street.....it's building up to a here we go again.
but this time i'm too old for it.

dd is walking/running into the lions den.

I believe the day her flight lands it will begin, as she has lied to me already.
I asked how she would get to me ,and she said by train.

after a long haul flight, they will get three trains and I pick them up outside his rented house??????????
he must be rubbing his hands in delight that his cash cow is coming home! .

does dd think just because the colour has gone out of my hair, my brain has gone out of my head???????

her loyal and loving partner where dd is now, is being hoodwinked, being used the same as everyone has been for so long, me included.

thank goodness I haven't got a crystal ball.

You have got a crystal ball. You know what's going to happen.

She won't listen. Because she is AN ADDICT. She tells herself that no-one understands. But she is lying to herself because what is really at the root is that she wants her fix.

You focus a lot on this terrible man op. That's like focusing on booze, or heroin, and saying 'it is so evil'. Yes, it is evil, he is 'evil', but the real problem here is your daughter and her addiction.

Can you talk to WA - to see what they would recommend you do if anything?

Yes she already is in contact with him - probably has been for months/years. The slide has already happened - no doubt she has bailed him already from overseas.

Where are here grown up children?

She is lying to you and her existing partner -- but most importantly to her self.

I can see that you are exhausted and exasperated by this situation. You have had a lifetime of it accept that it has happened again it wont be over quickly -- but you need to distance yourself from the drama and preserve your own mental and physical health.

Really sorry for you....sounds like you dd is high as a kite already and so excited about rekindling this realtionship.

Why would you agree to pick them up from outside his house? Surely the police would not recommend this given your previous history with him? I would just tell her you don't feel it's safe to go that near his property and you'll pick her up from the station or not at all.

oh yes, as you say, probably has been in contact for years, talk about love/hate.it's almost as though they groom each other.

"bailed him from overseas" you must be telepathic, that has been yet another of my fears,

I am positive that is why he is playing the happy family card,( sell his own grandmother, and now I believe my dd would sell her own mother)

and dd is intoxicated by it, high as a kite, that is exactly how she sounds, and looks on Skype.

I know that the ex will pick dd from the airport, the rekindling begins.

thank goodness I have listened carefully to you kind people, I now have a new prospective on these forthcoming events.

ex will pick them up from the airport- despite telling me they will get the train-
dd's dc will be staying with the ex(!) whilst dd is staying round the corner, but coming to me for a few days.

it's finally come full circle, let history repeat itself.
but this time....

WITHOUT ME.