DH and DM - what do I do now?

[TooExtraImmatureCheddar]

I have had the first major fight with my mum ever in my life and I don't know what to do about it. I'm 30, she's 48 and until now we've been very close and she's been incredibly supportive through a lot of bad times. However.

She and my stepdad came to stay with us to help out after my youngest child was born 4 weeks ago. After a couple of days a weird atmosphere developed - I could tell she was disapproving of DH, but didn't know why. Matters came to a head when DS was 5 days old - my stepdad interfered when DH was telling 2yo DD off, saying that DH shouted at her and scared her. This is not true - I was there and DH didn't shout OR scare DD. Mum had decided that DH had been out of order, and my stepdad jumped in with both feet, as is his wont. DH slammed his cutlery down (we were all sitting round the dinner table), breaking his plate, and said how dare my stepdad speak to him like that, and then he picked up DD and left the room. I asked Mum and stepdad wtf they thought they were playing at, and Mum said that DH had anger management issues and he was too harsh with DD. We continued arguing for a bit, but she wouldn't listen to me and eventually I asked them to leave, which they did.

DH was incredibly hurt by the idea that he scares DD. I find it frankly laughable - DH and DD have a great relationship, he's a very hands-on father, and she adores him. She's a happy, boisterous 2yo who laughs all the time and I've never had the faintest concern about DH's parenting. DH and I both look after DD one day a week alone while the other works (she's at nursery the other 3 days) and on her days with DH they do all sorts of fun stuff like swimming and painting and things. I feel he does a better job on his days with her than I do on mine, because I like to have a quiet Friday and then do things as a family on Saturday when we're all there.

We are both angry with Mum and my stepdad for interfering. I phoned Mum a couple of days later to try to make her see that she was totally out of line. She was furious with me and DH, and she said an awful lot of horrible things about him. She said that he is a narcissist and I have such low self esteem I don't see it. Also that I'm cowed by him. She cast up a number of incidents over the 9 years I've been with DH, in which sometimes DH was in the wrong, and said that he would never change without counselling, that I needed counselling too to learn how to stand up to him, and that children's most formative years are before the age of 2, so it was already too late for DD (at 2.4) but if we got counselling now it might be in time for DS. If that all sounds completely out of left field, that's how it felt to me listening to it! It was an hour and a half of vitriol, which is really out of character for Mum.

By way of background, DH and I are crap with money and Mum's helped us out on a number of occasions. She's right when she says we need to sort this out before DD gets much older. She's also right that DH isn't generally a very happy person - he's suffered from depression and has had periods of counselling and taken ADs before, but the last year or so has been much better. He's not perfect - he can be a grumpy arsehole on occasion, but he's not a narcissist. We've gone through a lot, including an abortion, a bankruptcy and a stillbirth, and I love him to pieces. Mum has been there for me through thick and thin, until this. When DD was a few months old, DH and I had a minor spat which Mum blew out of all proportion. She said DH was an emotional abuser. I said he wasn't, DH and I discussed it, cried over it and moved on. Mum and DH mended their fences and put it behind them, we carried on with our lives and the relationship stayed close. Now I discover that she's never changed her mind and she thinks DH is a danger to me and DD and now DS. This bulks so largely in her mind that she came out with it when DS was 5 days old and we spent what should have been a magical time crying and soul-searching instead.

I haven't spoken to Mum since - my sister has relayed a few messages which pretty much boil down to she's right, I'm wrong, Mum is only acting in my best interests and it's not fair to be angry with her when she only wants to help.

I want to fix this but I don't know how. At this point, DH would happily go NC and never speak to Mum again, but he recognises that I won't be happy with that long-term. We both think an apology is called for, but from what my sister says, Mum won't do that. I want her to recognise that it's my life, my children, and that if I don't see a problem then she has to respect that. I'm not sure she's going to do that either, tbh. She is convinced there is one and I'm just in denial.

Sorry this is so long - there are a hundred more details I could add as it is! What do I do now? I want to have a relationship with Mum and I want my children to have one with her too, but I feel like she's done so much damage that I don't know where to start. I'm already analysing every interaction to see whether I do 'stand up' to DH or not - am I speaking my mind enough? If I feel annoyed by something but don't say so, am I doing it because I'm cowed? If we argue, is he reacting in a normal way or an emotionally abusive one?

I think any husband who breaks a plate at the table and then suggests he does not have anger management issues clearly has anger management issues. I suspect you cannot see what is clear to outsiders.
Does he often break plates? I am afraid I am siding with your mother here.

I only got as far as the plate breaking...that takes some force. Does he often put himself between you and your friends, family etc?
He sounds quite intimidating.

I would also have serious concerns about any man that gets angry enough to break a plate at the table in front of his child.

I think your mum loves you and may have a point. It sounds like she has been biting her tongue for years and wants to protect you and her grandchildren.

In what way does your mum think he is emotionally abusive?

Only you can know what your husband is really like. But, equally, your mum has the right to dislike him and the way he parents.

It doesn't sound like she did anything really that bad, it sounds like it was escalated by your husband's behaviour - he could have kept the peace, but instead broke his plate. Which makes it appear that she's right about the anger issues tbh. I think ordering them out of your house was a bit OTT.

All things considered Id say it's for you to apologise, even if you don't think it was entirely your fault, if only to get your relationship back on track.

I should add that having to bail out adults because they're 'crap' with money is really annoying, and I'm sure that adds fuel to her fire.

I agree with PPs. He broke a plate in front of your DD and family? That's awful, and the fact you don't seem to see how bad that is, suggests that there may be much more which you don't see. (Stuff which your mum does, by the sounds of it).

I am not so sure breaking a plate is that bad. It is actually easy to do.

He was accused of shouting and scaring his DD which OP categorically says he did not do. She actually states the idea is laughable. They had a 5 day old child at the time so probably not a huge amount of sleep for anyone and his PILs decided to pull him up on stuff that didn't happen.

He took his DD and left the room. He did not carry on the argument.

OP's mother carried on an argument with a woman who had only given birth 5 days earlier.

OP's H would like to go NC but understands OP doesn't want that. That doesn't sound like a bad man either.

People get angry and snap. Ive done it, my DP has done it. Its unfortunate but it happens, were all human. I dont think the broken plate was deliberate. Maybe the guy was just so pissed off at having his parenting critisised that he lost his temper. Who hasnt ever lost their temper?

I dont know what to suggest regarding the mother issue, me and my mum disagree on things but we accept it and move on. Put it behind us. Accept that were both different people with different parenting techniques. I think expecting an apology is a bit far fetched, as it doesnt sound like it would be a genuine one anyway, given her opinion of your DH.

Sounds like you all need some time to reflect, get over it, and move on.

As far as questioning your own judgment of your DH - You know him better than anyone, if you have no concerns, and your all happy, screw what other people say.

That it was not deliberate is not the point, he deliberately slammed the plate down.

Any mature adult should be able to take a bit of criticism without losing their temper. Particularly in a situation involving family and a need to be diplomatic.

I think your mum is being a bit ott. I notice she is very close in age to you so is she a bit overprotective?

I think she is interfering too much and it is not her place. put your marriage first.

also does the money make you beholden to her.

Op, could you elaborate on the incident where you and your dh had a " spat" but your mum said it was emotional abuse?

I'm with your mother here.

I agree that this was the straw that broke the camels back. She seems to have kept quiet for your sake and all of a sudden it's like they couldn't ignore it any longer.

Do you trust your DM? Would she make something like this up?

Another thing worth noting is that your dh might have been running on high emotions given he had a five day old baby

I did start off thinking your DM and SD were bang out of order but the more I read, I am agreeing with your mum on this I'm afraid, then I swing back the other way.

Although, in defence I think that they were inappropriate in the way they raised the issue, at the table. Either could have taken your DH to one side and had a friendly talk - none of you come out of this very well, shouting at the table TBH. And yes, it is extremely disrespectful to the host to speak like that. But of course, new baby, sleep deprivation, personality friction, all a recipe for disaster.

With regard to the broken plate, shit happens, plates get cracks, it's not as if it was picked and frizbee'd at someones head.

But, your mother knows you better than anyone - are you down trodden with low self esteem and manipulated? are you blinded by love? And I have to ask - if you are, why didnt she give you the tools to deal with it? TBH I cant imagine any 18yo is capable of adequately parenting hence her projection of her short comings on to you

How highly offensive to young parents, Frank. 1 in 4 women are victims of domestic abuse at some point in their lives. As you say, it must be the victim's parents fault for not parenting them correctly!

Without knowing anything about previous incidents, it's impossible to say whether your mum is right or not.

I think they dealt with the incident with your dd very badly. Fair enough if your dd was in real danger but otherwise they should have left that for another time. They were guests in your home but acted as though your dh was a child to be told off. I wouldn't have been impressed either.

I also can't help thinking that an hour and a half of lecturing you about your dh's perceived faults is absolutely not the right way to go about helping you, even if she were right about him.

Could it be that your mum thinks that giving you money over the years means that she has more of a right to give her opinion of your marriage? A sort of 'I've given you money so now you have to listen to me' mindset?

I think your parents sound appalling tbh

Baby clamouring but will come back and write more

it does sound like she is trying to control you like a child. was your dsd always around or was it just her bringing you up?

Hi, thanks for the replies. Will come back and respond properly in a bit when dd in bed.

Did your mum have an abusive relationship with your father? is this why she may be sensitive to the red flags here?
TBH the use of the term 'narcissist' and references to emotional abuse sound like the words of someone who is well up in recognising abuse, who maybe has done alot of work on herself over the years. Narcissist in particular doesnt come out of thin air when we are looking at relationships.

However the way it has all come out isnt great

Twinkle, he slammed his cutlery down which in turn broke the plate. Are you saying youve never lost your temper and done something in a huff? I find that hard to believe, or perhaps some people just aren't as zen as you.

He broke a plate, big whoop. He was well within his rights to be angry, having been disrespected in his own home. If anyone tried to interfere whilst i was disciplining my child because THEY thought i was doing it wrong, id be pissed too! From the sounds of it he held it together for a while before he'd had enough!

If you have got to 30 and this is the first major blow-up with your previously supportive and helpful mum, why do you think she might be taking this stance about your DH?

Have you any reason to believe she has some agenda other than wanting to help you?

Is there any percentage of validity in what she says, as far as you're concerned?

How did you feel when your Dh got so angry he broke a plate by slamming his cutlery down on it in the middle of a family meal?

Sorry, don't mean to quiz you, but maybe these are things to ask yourself...

I want her to recognise that it's my life, my children, and that if I don't see a problem then she has to respect that. I agree that this is reasonable.

Yes buttocks it might be reasonable but the OPs mum still has a role to play in her life. If she is being abused and can't see that then her DM is obviously trying to help.

But we need to know if the DM is an ott person or if this is out if character for her iyswim.

It doesn't seem like she's been a bad mother.

OP look at the website hidden hurt. You will get a description of emotional abuse on there. See if it rings any bells. If it doesn't print it off and show your mother.