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Original poster

ExP wanting to take DS on holiday

58 replies

Solasum · 06/08/2014 22:36

Back in May I had a thread because absentee ExP wanted to take going to be 9mo DS to his parents' house overseas, and leave him there for a week in September. I said no. People here agreed (Phew).

At the time, I said that Ex could possibly take DS to stay with them for two nights only, on the understanding that he would be there all the time himself, and that he would spend a lot more time with DS beforehand.

It is now now, and ex has said he would like to take DS for the two nights, and will stay with him. But, he has if anything spent even less time with DS since May (maybe 4 hours this month).

I have major reservations. Ex knows nothing about DS routine, or about feeding him, getting him to nap etc. DS is still bf morning, late afternoon and at night sometimes repeatedly Blush. I have yet to leave him overnight.

Ex thinks I have moved the goalposts. I think I haven't. He asked when I would trust him to take DS away on his own if not now, and to be honest I could not answer. I wonder if I am being precious, though?
FWIW I have said I will take DS out to visit the family, but only if ex is around as well.

OP posts:
Original poster
Solasum · 07/08/2014 08:32

Quite likely, no no court order. The time is his choice. I was encouraging him to try and see him one weekday after work, then half a day every weekend, but now I have stopped nagging (thanks MN) it won't happen. He is in a new relationship and very busy, and also he is very tired so likes to relax at the weekend.

Re finances, our arrangement was agreed when I was pregnant and he was insisting he would want to see DS every day and meeting day to day expenses accordingly. As a consequence, I was arupid generous, and I estimate he pays apprix a 6th of what DS actually costs. Though hr has also paid for a few other big things in addition.

OP posts:
Lweji · 07/08/2014 08:35

You should check the child maintenance calculator and present him with that figure. Be prepared to make a claim if he doesn't pay up regularly.

Lweji · 07/08/2014 08:38

If he claims he'll have the baby more, then let him become regular then change the figures accordingly.
But note that for child maintenance it only counts where the baby sleeps. If he spends 7/7 nights at yours, he has to pay full maintenance.

Original poster
Solasum · 07/08/2014 08:39

Ehric, I agree. And had he actually started doung that back in May when it was first suggested, things would look very different now.

We had a chat about Christmas yesterday (DS is a Christmas day baby), and ex was somewhat annoyed that I am strangely refusing to let him have DS fir the day. I have said ex can join us though.

OP posts:
Ohwhatfuckeryisthis · 07/08/2014 08:39

Then you need to sit him down and tell him that it was based on that, but as he isn't living up to that you need more.BUT that isn't at the cost of him taking him away so young ever. His family wants to see the baby, they come here, or pay for you to go over (and never let him out if your sight)

Castlemilk · 07/08/2014 08:42

Tell him, quite simply, that he is being ridiculous. He has no experience of caring for the baby. He seems to have no interest in learning. He seems to have no interest in building a relationship with the baby. There is no way any parent would hand their TINY baby over to a virtual stranger - which is what he is - like that.

You have not moved the goalposts - you set a series of conditions which he has in no way made any effort to achieve. These are: that he spends enough time with the baby to be considered an experienced carer that the baby is familiar with. That he knows how to care for the baby and knows the baby well enough to provide good care.

If he does not agree with this, then simply tell him to take you to court. He will be laughed out of the room, not least because you have also offered to put yourself out to give him what is apparently the point of his request - that the baby meets its paternal family. Is he capable of rational thought at all, by the way? I assume you have pointed out that taking a nine month old baby from its primary carer for two days will simply ensure that his family are presented with two days of trying to console a hysterical, miserable, frightened baby? How fun. Whereas you could both take the baby there, and it would be a lovely opportunity for the grandparents and probably him too to spend an extended period of time getting to know the baby?

He is an idiot.

Original poster
Solasum · 07/08/2014 08:49

Rational thought? He is right, I am wrong. Simples.

OP posts:
MissWimpyDimple · 07/08/2014 08:50

I split with my ex whilst pregnant. He was very good at seeing the baby (although rather distant) and he came one evening every week and bathed her and put her to bed. He also saw her most weekends for a few hours alone.

Despite this she was 18 months before she went to him overnight.

He needs to build up to having DS overnight, let alone for a week.

Castlemilk · 07/08/2014 08:57

I think you need to sit him down and tell him, quite firmly, that your priority will always quite simply be your DS's welfare. And if he - Ex - continues to not really make an affort to get to know him and spend time with him when you are encouraging him to do so and are in no way preventing more contact, then in your eyes what is best for your DS will NOT necessarily equate to specific types of contact. And a court would agree.

e.g.
Christmas afternoon at Daddy's when DS sees Daddy twice a week and loves being with him = yes, excellent, in DS's interests
Christmas afternoon at Daddy's when Daddy is a virtual stranger who DS sees once a month and DS is too young to even understand that he hasn't effectively been abandoned at an unfamiliar house = no, awful, not at all in DS's best interests.

Will that compute at all?!

Exactly the same for a trip abroad (although here, even if he were having very regular contact, a court would also probably not make an order for such a young baby to be away from its primary carer for several days, no matter how close they were).

Original poster
Solasum · 07/08/2014 09:01

Ohwhat. I know you are right. But, it seems more trouble than it is worth. Our relationship during my pregnancy was so bad (my fault too, not just his), that now things are calm, it seems counter productive to rock the boat.

OP posts:
Castlemilk · 07/08/2014 09:06

Well then - if that is his version of rational, then you quite simply tell him - if you think that what you want is rational and have no intention of listening to me, then take me to court. You do not have to listen to me. Take me to court if that is what you need to be satisfied that what I am willing to agree to is what the law of the land says is fair and in the best interests of our son.

However, when you have done that, it really would be in the best interests of you and your relationship with your child for you to sit down, have a quiet think and just accept that where this situation is concerned, you will NEVER be in a position where you simply get to say that you are right and you can ignore what I say. Never. I am our child's primary carer, and right now, you are still - thanks to your own decisions - a virtual stranger to him. The sooner you start working with me, seeing him more, and getting to know him, the more you will start getting what you want from this. It's there to be earned, not taken, and not earned from me, but from your son.

Castlemilk · 07/08/2014 09:10

Do you know what, OP - it isn't more trouble than it's worth. Do you know why? Because right now, the way this looks from the outside, this guy will be out of your son's life anyway in a couple of years - pretty much as soon as he moves on and has another relationship and more children.

The botom line is - he's shouting about his rights, but doesn't actually give a shit about seeing his baby, cuddling him, being as close as possible. He doesn't miss him when he's not there. He's not desperate to know him, know what he does, what he eats, who he is. He doesn't see him as anything but 'The Baby' that he has some kind of right to and thinks he needs to claim.

Rock the boat, or your son will be the one suffering.
Stuck record. Spend more time with him - he needs to get to know you. Make more effort with him - you need to be able to care for him and know about his care. Until you do that, you can't have him alone. Go to court and ask if you think that's unfair on you.

EhricLovesTheBhrothers · 07/08/2014 09:16

I'm afraid you're going to have to rock the boat here because if you don't you're going to get steam rollered into allowing contact that won't be good for your child. You need to lay out the expectations for contact now, very clearly, and stick to them.

rb32 · 07/08/2014 09:42

I'm usually all about fathers rights, but really. 4 hours in a month??? He needs to understand he needs to have the kid every week not once in a blue moon.

Original poster
Solasum · 07/08/2014 09:58

You all make a lot of sense.

The not rocking the boat was about the financial side. The sums involved are not worth the effort.

With regards to the contact side, he is well aware of my position. and frankly, as I know I am not obstructing contact, I am no longer prepared to keep trying to coerce him into it. Because I am more than happy to have extra time with DS myself.

OP posts:
Castlemilk · 07/08/2014 10:05

Oh I see re finances.

The easist and probably best thing would be to disengage. Don't chase. Let him leave contact and put it off (because he likes to relax, not spend time with his baby...umm) - until before you know it, it's been six weeks and he hasn't seen him. And then Christmas will be looming. And when he suddenly pipes up, you will be able to reply 'But you have chosen not to see him for weeks. You have prioritised other things in your life. How can you claim to be the person it would be best for him to spend Christmas Day with?' And he will, eventually, have nothing to say. Because he doesn't want to really be a father to this baby.

And if, of course, he DOES start making the effort - then great, because it will be because he genuinely WANTS to, not because you keep raising the issue and he simply wants not to 'lose'. Then you'll know that he does, honestly, want to be a dad.

Keep quiet. Be welcoming and positive about contact whenever he initiates (although clear and consistent with the need for reasonable notice). But don't take the initiative to contact him.

getthefeckouttahere · 07/08/2014 11:25

Hi solas,

i doubt if you will find anyone on here as supportive as me about children's rights to spend time with their fathers, and I'm quick to jump on mums who seek to obstruct and prevent this.

His request. No No No No fuck me NO!

He knows what he needs to do if he wants to take DS away. Point being he doesn't want to do all of that, just wants to rock up with DS and look like super dad. (if it was any consolation i suspect that his mum/aunts would do all of the looking after anyway!) But no you are being reasonable, he isn't.

Original poster
Solasum · 18/08/2014 16:23

An update. All 3 of us will be flying out to stay eith his family for 3 nights in September, at their expense.

OP posts:
JaneFonda · 18/08/2014 17:01

I'm glad you've reached a good compromise - it does seem to be in DS's interests. He gets to be with you, which is great. He gets to spend time with his dad, which is great. He gets to spend time with his grandparents, which is great.

You sound very level headed and rational OP, I really hope that everything works out for you in the long run.

However - you really should get finances sorted! It's okay to make a provisional plan when you're pregnant, but as I'm sure you know, the financial reality once the baby is actually here is very different, and DS's dad really ought to be contributing more.

lizzzyyliveson · 18/08/2014 17:14

Which country are you going to? Make sure that you will be ok to bring the baby home without his permission.

3littlefrogs · 18/08/2014 19:01

Please make sure you hold onto Ds's passport at all times, and as lizzzyyliveson says, ensure that you will be allowed to bring him home, especially if your ex decides not to travel with you.
You have to be so, so careful.

ThinkIveBeenHacked · 18/08/2014 19:07

He needs to be havi g weekly contact and oreferably overnight one night per week before a trip away should be considered. Not saying that should happen yet but one afternoon a month is nowhere near enough.

Original poster
Solasum · 18/08/2014 19:15

It is in Europe, so reasonably straightforward.

OP posts:
YoureInMySystemBaby · 18/08/2014 19:41

I would not let anyone take any of my babies/toddlers while still breast feeding. It was never a question of trust with my DCs fathers, but a question of what's best for the DC concerned - which, in my case, with me - if only because they still were breast feeding. Holy he'll would break loose if my Norks were unavailable!

3littlefrogs · 18/08/2014 22:38

Don't assume anything OP. The law in France is different from England, for example.