New relationship - issues with ex wife and DD

[LovelyPolish]

I have recently started seeing a wonderful man who has been flirting with me for around 6 months. He is Polish and I am aware that there are some cultural differences at play. I don't have any issues but I do want to be supportive and in the right way.

His ex left him for someone he worked with around 3 years ago and he seemed to have been under the impression the relationship would fizzle and she would come back. However this hasn't happened and his relationship with his DD has suffered. He was accused of hitting his ex wife just the once on the night she said she was leaving (after she told him the affair had been going on for months and she was moving out), and he has always denied this happened. There was never any other accusation of DV in the 14 years they were together and she had no bruise or marks to show anyone to back up her claim.

I am a little concerned over this, but he has been open about it and I have no reason to not believe him and am proceeding with awareness and caution.

However he does still tie himself up in knots about what they are up to. Any time he hears something bad has happened to his ex he will go on about karma and he worries she is not looking after his DD in the Polish way - not as strict as she used to be. I tried to say now that DD is older perhaps she has to have this freedom, but the fact we usually end up talking about them is worrying me. I know he misses his DD and have suggested he text/call her more often. I really want him to be happy and move on but don't want to rush this process and want to be supportive. Can anyone advise?

OK.
I am listening to you all. I promise, but I wasn't asking how to leave him, but how to help him.
If it goes the way predicted here (controlling behaviour) I will have the alarm bells on a loud setting and get out quick. Thank you all.

You can't help him, that's up to him to help himself. You can't fix him. I wish you well and hope that we're all wrong, but do keep all of the above in mind.

Of course he is pretty into you, that is what hooks you in; it is lovely and flattering and it is a good feeling. No relationship starts off controlling, people ignore the warning signs precisely because the rest is good.

Him taking you to meet his family is him rushing things, because once he's done that, he's weaved a bit more fantasy with you at the centre. Harder to get out once you are on first name terms with his family and you won't let him down like his first wife did etc.

And if he was that caring about hid DD, he would have been through mediation and possibly court and sorted a workable arrangement. He would not be fobbing it off with, there's no point. For as long as he is stuck in the drama, he is still engaging with the ex-wife because that keeps her part of his life. He's had three years to sort things, he's not done it.

And it doesn't matter if he is Polish or from wherever, if you are looking for reasons to excuse behaviour you are not comfortable with, rather than saying outright, that makes me uncomfortable, he's already controlling you.

I think you've heard one side of the story (his side.) There will also be his ex wife's side and his daughter's side. I suspect that the daughter doesn't see him for a reason (please don't believe the old poisoned by the ex wife story.) Teenagers tend to know their own minds.

Does he have somewhere to live? Or will he be living with you/ is living with you? What about maintenance for his daughter? Is he paying that?

Small point in scheme of things - the Xmas Day 'messing around'. All the Poles I know celebrate and exchange presents on Xmas Eve. So changing last minute over Xmas Day isn't ideal, but it's more like messing around Boxing Day.

Who can say if the DV is a lie or not. What you KNOW is that he hasn't made the effort over access to his own child. That just wouldn't be a keeper, for me,

The biggest red flag for me is this statement from you --- I want to help him get over his hard feelings for his ex.

Are you a rescuer ? Because that sounds really fucked up.

I am going to sound flippant and I really don't mean to, but on the subject of rushing things, the OP should watch Frozen, all the way to the end and consider the behaviour of Prince Hans and why Anna falls for him.

I think saying the OP's attitude is fucked up is harsh, but it is an important point - the OP should be asking herself why she wants to help the man, as these are his issues he has had three years to resolve, and why she is so steadfastly ignoring the red flags (and all the replies on here)?

And the point she should really pay attention to in Frozen is when Anna goes back to find Prince Hans and what he says about her behaviour when she is expecting a totally different response. Anna did not, unfortunately, have Mumsnet or the concept of a red flag.

Sorry for writing that in the third person about the OP, rather than to the OP.

Hello again everyone and thanks for the new posts.

He does indeed pay maintenance for his DD - he used to pay more but ex decided it wasn't enough and went through CSA so he now pays her half of what he used to based on their calculations and gives the rest to his DD directly (mobile phone and the bills paid, clothes etc). He does make a lot of effort to contact her - he has tried various approaches to see what works.

He has his own house and stays with me roughly half of the week. He inherited all of his exes debts/loans which he has spent the last 3 years paying off by working around the clock.

It all feels so different on here than in RL - we have people coming up to us all over the place saying how well we look and how happy they are for us.

And sorry, I've not watched Frozen yet (apparently the only person left on the planet!).

Another thing I thought of last night was regarding the trip away - I am going to ask if we can delay it by a few months at least. I don't think I feel able to meet his parents and although I'd not mind a camping trip or other adventure it does put a lot of pressure on us unnecessarily.

Yes, that is a good idea about the trip. That is not an unreasonable thing to suggest.

He inherited all of his exes debts/loans which he has spent the last 3 years paying off by working around the clock.

I never buy into this line either. He has no legal obligation to pay her debts. But of course if they are in his name they are his debts not hers.

Another red flag.

He sounds like a total cock in my view.

I'm not even thinking about the dv accusation - he is still "obsessing" over his ex THREE YEARS after they have broken up. That is weird. He is playing the martyr over not getting to see his daughter, but he doesn't seem to actually be DOING anything about it.

Even if his daughter doesn't have her phone at the moment (and taking away a teenager's mobile phone is a perfectly reasonable punishment from a parent by the way), there is always the landline. Even if his ex isn't happy having him calling the land line, there is always skype. There are many different ways he could contact her, but he prefers to sit and piss and moan to you about it.

However, the biggest concern for me was with regards to his comment that he was worried his ex wife wasn't raising his daughter in "the Polish way" and wasn't being "strict" enough.

He sounds pretty traditional, and the overall view of women in Poland is not great by any means.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Poland#Women

It would be great if you could stop this mental process by blaming weird behaviour as cultural differences. Weird behaviour is weird behaviour.

Sorry, I've had my own experience of an abusive partner, though that doesn't make me an expert. But for me one thing that makes me wary is that you say he has low self-esteem. Maybe on its own it is not a problem, but certainly my abusive partner had low self-esteem, with was why he tried to separate my from my friends and make me feel useless.

The other red flag I see is that you want to "mend" him. That is frankly not a good basis for a relationship and, again, one of the ways that women fall into abusive relationships.

I think you just have very low expectations OP and perhaps a wonky radar when it comes to men from past bad experiences.

The fact that this guy isn't as bad as previous bfs is not a recommendation.

The dv - if the 'community' sided with his wife it's probably true - why would she make it up if she was trying to leave? It's not as if she was the wronged party. DV in Eastern Europe is more acceptable than it is here. He's clearly still in love with and obsessed with his ex wife. The amount he talks to you about her and daughter in this time show you clearly he is not over it. In that context what does all the attention and compliments mean? It's all far too much too fast.

It must just be desperation to ignore all the very big problems evident here just because you need the compliments and attention this man seems to bring.

I meant to mention the paranoia - the ex is poisoning his daughters mind, not bringing her up strictly enough, turned the community against him, anything negative that happens to his ex is karma etc...

This is not 'Polish' it's bonkers OP. What happens when his paranoia focuses on you?

You don't inherit other peoples debt. Full stop. Therefore it was his own debt , or joint loans , and he is not being truthful about this.

You don't know what you don't know , ie domestic violence so it's probably wise to focus on what you do know. Simply put your boyfriend of 6 months is hung up on his ex after three years and you want to counsell him and fix his low self esteem.

It isn't normal to be hung up like this after three years, it really isn't. It also isn't normal to take on a person's issues as your own. It really isn't your job to fix his low self esteem or lack of confidence . Healthy adults manage this themselves , and if they can't they seek help.

I suspect that gradually more and more of his issues and feelings will be dumped into your lap for you to resolve. It may be wise to read up about the victim . Nothing in his life seems to be his fault , and he's happy for you to fix his self esteem. He's also happy to blame his low self esteem on his ex not complimenting him enough. That was never her job , and it isn't yours now. Abusers of all types hold others responsible for their feelings , so the exes lack of compliments causing him low self esteem is a massive red flag.

You seem to be too keen to help him , which isn't healthy. People like yourself who are kind and giving are targets for those who want to just take. Did you have any counselling after your last abusive relationship ? In my experience the worst kind of abuser is the victim as they play on your sympathy.

He sounds manipulative Op. He's already got you feeling sorry for him , and wanting to fix his issues. Your even colluding with him regarding the idea his ex has caused his low self esteem. I presume you give him lots of compliments , unlike his awful ex.

He has also blatantly lied to you about the debt issue.

He showers you with compliments , flowers and messages , his heart flips apparently , but he then goes on and on about the ex? This is contradictory. You feeling sorry for him and wanting to fix him is a big red flag , because if you recognize that something needs fixing , you also recognize that it is broken.

Do you have any children, OP?

You said you'd be flirting with him for six months, but how long have you actually been a couple?

I wouldn't say categorically that it's fucked up or that you should leave him. I don't know. What I would say, though, is to be wary of someone with so much baggage. He may well have been a victim in all of this. He may never have hit his ex. But the fact that you're being dragged in to all of his crap and it's still such early days in the relationship is a little odd. Shouldn't you be having fun and going on dates, rather than getting tied into helping him with his ex and his child?

Sorry to say this, but I think that he has spun you a line about the maintenance. Any mother would do a CSA calculation online to see what they were entitled to, and if they were being paid more directly by the father, I doubt very much that they would then go to the CSA knowing that they would end up with less as a result of CSA involvement. That wouldn't make sense. I suspect she went to the CSA because she wasn't being paid, or not being paid regularly enough????? Another red flag.

Is his house that he lives in now rented or owned?

And yes, I agree with the other poster who commented that removing a teenager's mobile phone is a standard reprimand. I do it with my DD. But what you do need to understand is that if a teenager really wants something i.e. contact with their dad, there's very little that the mother could do to stop this ('poison' their mind etc.)

I really do think that he is playing you about all of this. Do you know any neutral 3rd party that knows the ex wife, daughter and your boyfriend?

It's only been just over 2 weeks that we have started seeing each other, so still really really early days. I think part of the trouble was his ex and daughter were on holiday for the first two weeks and he hadn't heard from his daughter which may have been why he was talking about her. Now she is back and they have spoken and messaged and are meeting this weekend and he seems to have chilled out about it all. He hasn't actually spoken about his ex since he spoke to his daughter, so I think I may just have over read that at the time and worried because, as people pointed out, hearing a lot about an ex early on is a red flag. Again though I have never been married for 14 years and understand just brushing it off can't happen easily when a child is involved.

He owns the house (mortgage) and he did explain he took the loans for her under his name as she hasn't ever worked in this country and couldn't get credit.

I thought the same about the CSA but she isn't from here and he did say to her it couldn't be regular to the day but perhaps up to 4 days out each month as he has to wait to be paid before he can send her it. His version is this wasn't acceptable to her and she rang up CSA in a huff who then called him and he did CSA because it was what she wanted, and just gives the excess directly to his daughter.

His version is just that.

Dear lovely,
Nobody likes being told that one is being duped, it makes us feel like idiots. And yet, I was in exactly this situation with a man from a former East block country and I also put all the niggling doubts down to cultural differences. I married him after dating 2 yrs and I soon learned that I wasn't the centre of his universe. Just like family and friends had been telling me to my face!
Then I got pregnant and decided to give him a chance to be a better dad than husband. I divorced him 3 yrs later.
I thought I'd be better off rebuilding my confidence. 8 yrs later I met a lovely man I felt an immediate bond with (yes, huge red flags) and we literally ticked all the boxes of an emotional abusive relationship. Might not sound as dramatic as dv, but it grinds you down slowly and robs you of your identity.
Anyway, 3 months (!!!) into the relationship we bought a house together (I know, I know, but this really happened, I kid you not) because:

A) dh2 was renting a poky flat after exw "fleeced" him and practically all his money was going to ex to pay cm, private schools, many many extras/ guilt money (he'd had an affair because exw no longer wanted sex with him) and he felt his kids deserved to visit him in a proper home (my large flat wasn't convenient enough),
B) his poor kids had never experienced a "proper" family because the mean exw neglected her kids (worked ft, like him, and also wanted a career, like him...). And I was such a great mum to ds.
C) as dh, who I married after a yr of living together, didn't have much money, I paid for 75% approx. of home. We split all bills although his kids were spending a lot of time with us, especially being fed dinners during week. But when his pay increased dramatically I only found out by accident over a year later (!) and had to be v persuasive to make him pay at last the same ratio of his salary as I was.

And still, all the time, I felt I was with a man so much better than dh1...
After a lot of drama with ex and kids, I insisted on couple counseling, as I was quite obviously the last person in the "family" to warrant any respect and consideration. After 18 months of counseling not much has changed. Next yr we'll be married 5 years. Not a day goes by when I don't regret our match, think of ways of extricating myself, only to be pulled back in again and lie in the bed I made...
Lovely, do you really want my life???