Can I ask if anyone was brought up by family after losing their parents?

[fairlyliquid]

I just wondered what it feels like to be brought up in the extended family and whether you felt loved. And if you didn't, what was that like.

I have personal experience of this myself by the way.

He has to clean up after himself, cook when requested (which he does quite well) and clean his own room and bathroom. He does his own laundry and changes his sheets, etc. He is the type to make his bed before school though, so...

I try not to dwell on how much DH has failed me - hobbies or bonding time together? He is barely ever alone with him. I would mark his contribution at 0/10, generously. I've given up. I will say however, DH was and is committed to giving him a home and supporting him in life, so he's not all bad. He and his siblings are marked by their childhood, and a lot of DN's 'faults' strike DH hard (they were brought up by the same woman of course).

We saw a very eminent therapist who specialised in adoption and bereavement so he was very keen to see us. He didn't really help though, he just told me I was doing great in difficult circumstances. Unsurprisingly, he didn't have any magic pills to change my life.

I blew up at DN a couple of days ago because he ate 3 large bars of chocolate I had hidden at the back of the tool drawer precisely to avoid him finding them. They all went overnight and I can't understand the fury I felt. I was very controlled but called him greedy and childish and just out to satisfy his own whims, sod everyone else. Then my voice cracked and he was like, wtf, are you actually going to cry over this chocolate? Sometimes when he goes away I feel so light and carefree - yet he is not really any trouble. He is a great kid.

Awww you sound lovely. It's hard to parent at the best of times and probably much harder still when you feel the need to try to fix things for someone, never mind being aware that the actual maternal link of years of shared experience is missing. But for what it's worth I think you, and he, will be ok :-)

He sounds like a typical teenager and you sound like a plenty good enough maternal figure. It'll all come good in the end.

I suggest that your anger is coming from a few places. Principally from the feeling that you are doing this all alone ie. it is really directed at your DH. Why are you allowing him to make his upbringing an excuse for neglecting the child emotionally? He's the grown-up and this is a child that needs him.

On top of that I think you're experiencing the thing all parents experience i.e. thoughtlessness hurts. There's nothing we wouldn't do for them and yet they can - without breaking stride - do something so thoughtless that it takes your breath away. They're really just being kids but we wonder if we're a crap parent!

Cogito I think you'd need to meet DH to understand. He has never cited his upbringing - that's one of my theories. He is intimidatingly intelligent, immersed in his books and his work - which is kind of high-powered. He is very dynamic. DN is sort of 'weak' in that he likes relaxing in expensive clothes and fluffy duvets and complains his carpet isn't thick enough or he needs a new x because the old one's a bit scruffy. It enrages DH who sees all this luxury as wrong (and the opposite of how he was brought up). There have obviously been some very angry exchanges and some heart-felt discussions on the matter - he seems petrified of having anything 'emotional' to do with him. And this is the man who talked to me on our first date about this child and how he hoped to be able to bring him into any future family he formed. And it's not that he only wants a mini-me, our son is donor-conceived (his side - his choice).

Hi Fairy,

I want to wish you and your DN and to say how much I admire you for starting this discussion, I hope both of you get help and support, I am not sure if practically I can offer assistance, but I will try to share my story and perspective, without hijacking your thread.

I was adopted by family and it was complicated. My parents died when I was a baby, initially I lived with Grandparents, but DGM died was I was 3. DGF struggled for a while, then I was adopted by an Aunt and a uncle aged 5. Aunt and uncle were mid 40's with no children of their own, and it was thought to be a perfect solution.

Aunt/uncle had not had counselling re infertility (this was the70's), and expected me to be a PFB. I was a strong willed 5yo who had been brought up by other adults and didn't mould easily. I wasn't the child they so clearly wanted, and although in believe they loved me I never felt liked.

Due to age, Aunt and Uncles formative years had been during ww2 and rationing. I was never allowed comics, sweets, or frivolous toys because they hadn't had them as children. Birthday money was to be saved or spent on worthwhile things; I was made to buy a dictionary, for example. The year I needed a scientific calculator for school it was my Christmas present. This wasn't about money and in their eyes, it wasn't mean, they actually thought they were being generous by giving me things they had never had, but they were so out of touch with the parents of my peers.

Another complication was that Aunt's DM lived with us and went onto develop dementia when I was a teenager. Aunt had to deal with her DM at the same time as a hormonal teenager, all without support, and I think she had a challenging few years.

Looking back and reflecting, it wasn't great for me, but nor was it great for them, and Yet I believe that their intentions were good. Yes I was the child and should have had more protection, but they needed support too. Support to deal with their feelings and support and practical help to deal with me. I might have been helped by early counselling and support too.

I am pragmatic as an adult and have been lucky to go on to have my own family, but I am very introverted and often tongue tied, I lack confidence and struggle to believe that I am likeable, and yet I gather as a 5 yo I was quite um rumbustuous, so the me I have become is probably not the real me.

I'm sorry this is so long fairy, but I wonder how much support you are getting as a family? I suspect you, you DH and your DN all have different needs.

wickeddevil thanks for sharing that. It's the 'not feeling likeable' thing that worries me most, if we need to be loved to feel loveable. I don't get any support (apart from here of course).

I know his granny loves him enormously, but their contact is now sporadic (at the beginning they spoke all the time - now THAT was another thread) so she can't miss him that much. He also has an older sister.

Fairy I am sorry that you don't have a lot of support other than here, and do please keep posting. I am sure others can offer better advice and I think you sound lovely for trying to do the best for DN.

Would you be able to seek face to face support? I don't know if your GP could signpost.

I think I wanted to say is that to feel valued actually I think you do need to feel loved and liked. I have grown up with a bit of an "I'm not worth it" complex.

When you talk about being angry over taking 3 bars of chocolate and your husband getting wound up over his liking for 'luxury' I wonder if the problem is really a latent anger that your nephew is with you at all. They don't really sound like things to get irate about, so I wonder what is behind it?

I assume your nephew's taste for luxury comes from his grandmother, & the fact that perhaps the whole family has tended to throw money at him out of guilt. I don't really understand why this has been negatively labelled as 'weak' (not that you would have said that to his face) rather than a product of his unfortunate circumstances. You give him money and then get angry with him when he likes what money can buy.

Current teenage culture is very materialistic and shallow and your husband may not be aware of the kind of pressure there is to have expensive things, and how teenagers are encouraged to value themselves by what they have.

It may also be that your nephew feels the lack of love and has come to quantify love in things is given materially. Some people with low self esteem feel better with the 'right' clothes, gadgets and fluffy carpet.

I'm sure that you can teach your nephew that love is more important and gives more happiness than material things. Although this will be difficult when your husband apparently finds it difficult to engage with him at all, let alone show love.

I wonder if your nephew was testing you with the chocolate - she buys me stuff - but does she love me enough to give me her last Rolo?

It sounds like your nephew could do with his own counselling and that you and your husband might benefit from some together. I think you need to identify where your rages come from, to express how isolated you feel in dealing with the boy on your own, and why your husband is so terrified of having anything 'emotional' to do with the boy.

I didn't lose my parents, I was taken away because my mother was a nasty junkie and my father was a drug dealing woman beating car thief.

I was brought up by my grandparents and they were wonderful, If someone asked me about my mother I instantly think of my grandmother and not my mother - she can rot for all I care.

I did feel loved but at the same time abandoned by the two people that were supposed to love me.

Good post Twinkle. And I suspect spot on about the chocolate. Fairy how do you think he would interpret you hiding chocolate from him? and then your meltdown?

I think your DH's lack of engagement is the big issue here and I'm not surprised you feel angry (I would) but it's being misplaced to DN which isn't fair.

From the sounds of it your DH sold himself to you as the good guy, committed to helping and supporting his DN but in reality he's not prepared to put the effort in to forge a relationship with him.

I don't really understand why there has been so many arguments and discussions around materialism and your DH views on it. It's obvious why these things count as important to your DN and money has probably been the most consistent thing in his life.

You say DH is an intelligent man, surely he can work it his behaviour is hurting you all?

Thanks so much everyone.

I'm not sure the chocolate thing was anything other than greed tbh. We tonnes of pudding for dinner that night, and I had given him and DS a bar of the same chocolate to share that afternoon - that's when he must have zoned in on its existence. The reason for my annoyance was that I had to make a chocolate cake at 6am to take with us - of course I couldn't because the main ingredient had been taken. But what made me really angry was he smirked about it and told me I was making a massive fuss about nothing as usual. I'm sure it's a familiar argument in homes across the nation. If he had taken 1 or even 2 bars, I could have made the cake, but 3? I was irate! I can't tell you how many times I've heard, 'don't sweat the small stuff' and wanted to scream ITS ALL SMALL STUFF.

Twinklestein Is it because we don't really want him with us? I have a commitment to him and a belief that all children deserve a childhood. He is part of our family and we will do everything we can for him. He is treated the same as our DS, an equal child. But did we want a moody, difficult teenager, 3 years into our relationship, when I had just given birth? Years of school visits, the rudeness, the mess, the atmosphere, moving house and cities to get him into a school where he had a chance of being happy? Life isn't always the way we want it - I have been given a lot in the first half of my life and I'm happy to start giving something back now.

There is everything wrong with DH's attitude towards him and his 'luxuries' - I'm not going to defend him. I know how much more materialistic it is these days. He gets a lot more than I ever did - i think many of us can say that. I give him 50 per month which usually he sticks to but I have given him a lot extra this month because he wants to go out with his friends and they all seem to have money. It has to be said that we are quite well off and spend quite freely on ourselves, so I wouldn't want to be tight with him.

We both encourage him to seek out new experiences instead of blundering around in a dark Hollister outlet. Whenever I can i mention our belief in his potential. DH has inspired him academically - he has gone from a remedial group to the top set since he came to us. He is motivated and organised at school - all his teachers love him. He was school-refusing before.

I had counselling with DH when he came to us because the tension was so awful, then we saw a specialist more recently.

He shouldn't be smirking at you. That's disrespectful.

Fairy I'm sorry to go on about the chocolate, but I'm trying to get things in context. You obviously felt the best thing was to hide it, but that could be interpreted by a teen as meaning you don't trust him. May I ask how you think it would have gone if you had openly said. "That chocolate is for a cake, Do Not Eat It?"

Would he still have eaten it?

Re your DH, my uncle/adopted DF worked until 9 pm most nights throughout my teens to avoid the situation at home. And this resonates with me too. I feel deeply for all of you. Although I was miserable, as described above (sorry again) it was not a picnic for my aunt and uncle / adopted DPs either. And I am worried that you, DN, DH and possibly your DS are in a similar unhappy state. Could you look again at counselling for all of you help you to deal with this?

Wickedevil - thanks for caring - it really does feel good. The only person I can really talk to about this is my DB and SIL as they are foster carers for teenagers so they know how it is. But, re the chocolate: he has guinea pigs and is allowed to take whatever he wants from the fridge to feed them except one salad drawer which has organic vegetables destined for the humans and herbs. I make sure there is all the stuff he needs, I buy it specially, but he will alway make them a pignic (] of thai basil and lambs leaf lettuce. He even cuts the florets off the broccoli (which DS loves) and leaves the stalks. They are RATS! When I say something he says oh, sorry, I forgot. Very annoying. Always blithe and smirking. Do you think that is his way of getting back at me? I am definitely the easy one to blame. Whenever MIL has been for a (rare) visit she always writes me an email expressing her fear that DN is lonely or agoraphobic (he's not) and I am not fair. Always me, not her son, clearly. If you want a read you I can PM you my posting name from back then. I had quite a time of it.

So no, if I'd made a big deal of it, he wouldn't have taken it for 24 hours, but after that it would have been fair game again. "Oh, I didn't think you still needed it!"

He is nearly 17. I want him to be a fine young man, with self-discipline. He is getting there - at school for example.

He loves DS, they are close. I'm ok. We can afford counselling now, so maybe I'll have some. I would like a practical counsellor who would challenge me to rise above it all a bit more.

I remember some of your previous posts. I am impressed that you have done so well with DN especially with the school situation. Kudos to you for that alone. Educational achievement makes such a difference to life outcomes.
Teenagers are very challenging in the best of circumstances, so I wonder if you have looked into 'parenting' classes rather than, or as well as, counselling. It can be reassuring to find you are not the only one on the receiving end of teenage behaviour.

I would also be inclined to try to introduce tactile modelling, pat on the back, 'forced' hugs etc. I have experience of this, and as a pp mentioned, it is never too late to introduce hugs and they are usually eventually reciprocated (if not initiated).

Bproud i know what you say is true but the thought of hugging him completely freaks me out. I cannot imagine it - I have no idea how to get there. That's what I meant by a practical counsellor, I imagine her saying this week for hwk you have to do x and y towards a more positive relationship.

Thanks for remembering me - equal to the school success he also has a good set of friends and is very fit and healthy, goes to the gym etc. which is very good.

It is me who is the gibbering alcoholic wreck.

It is hard, but any tactile contact is good, so maybe start with back patting, for example if he is sitting down to eat or to play with your DS. If you pat his back or stroke his arm at the same time as saying something 'nice' to him it is a double reinforcement.
Scenario:
Thanks for the lovely meal you cooked DN, Great Job!

I know it sounds a bit daft and soppy, but it does help.

Good Luck!

What are the punishments when he does these sorts of things?

Do you dock his pocket money or something? Because you really should!

He uses the wrong salad stuff - the good stuff comes out of his pocket money. He eats chocolate he KNOWS he wasn't supposed to - out of the pocket money. Or choose something else - that day he gets NO pudding, or HIS salad is what was supposed to be for the guinea pigs, etc.

If he's materialistic, hit him where it hurts. If he complains - tell him 'don't sweat the small stuff, it's only salad', 'it's only a small amount of pocket money'. Etc.

He is testing boundaries and getting away with it. The repercussions shouldn't be you yelling at him (however satisfying it might feel momentarily) but a tangible consequence where he is denied something that he feels entitled to.

Practical counselling sounds like a very wise idea, I can understand that you need support as well as practical help and as Bproud has pointed out teens are challenging . The teens board here may help too?

If he will follow your instructions to a point and then break them with a smirk, that does rather sound like boundary testing, which any normal teen would try on tbh. Except that he isn't a normal teen, he has additional baggage. Does he have a safe space / place where he can vent and explore his feelings? I wonder if he would benefit from counselling too. You are all in a tricky situation and all need support

I am intrigued by bprouds picking up on tactile behaviour. This is something I also feel I missed out on, and I think she has given excellent advice. Again teens can be difficult to hug, but they need tactile reassurance. My guess is if your DH could offer this it would help DN to feel loved and valued.

You sound like you are proud if his achievements and that you Expect him to do well. Your confidence in him will pay dividends im sure, and again I am sorry that you are having a difficult time just now x

At the risk of repeating the very eminent specialist, it does sound like you've done a pretty good job under the circumstances.

Don't beat yourself up for getting angry, teens have a way of pushing our buttons and can bring out very forceful reactions, I find any type of disrespect has me frothing at the mouth for example.

In terms of why you are still troubled by it, the most glaring elephant in the room is not actually this boy and what you have given him (which is pretty much all you had given you were a newly married couple with your own child) but your terrible relationship with your husband. I don't know if I read this correctly, but you had a donor by his choice. He sounds emotionally crippled and the problem is you have been the rock and emotional sounding board (and kicking post) for everyone in the family for so long you are probably a bit tired and distanced from it all, you sound emotionally exhausted. I don't know what you need to do about that or what you want to do, but this would make me very angry indeed. He sold you a tale of family life, then you had to make it all by yourself. That would eat away at anyone.

To go back to your original question, my husband had a very difficult relationship with his mother and was largely brought up by other family. In his case it was the best thing that could have happened to him. I can't say this dysfunction hasn't affected him, it has, however he had some good loving role models in his grandparents and other relations and that has saved him essentially.

And- you believing in him through the tough times, the bad behaviour, the tantrums, the lashing out, will be the biggest single thing you can have done for him. He won't come out unscathed, no-one can, but you didn't walk away and I wonder if it is that feeling of unrelenting needing to be there (and your husband so obviously not) that is now making you feel quite trapped. He won't be at home forever though, now he's doing so well at school, so this will all shift again.

thenapoleon our DS is donor-conceived because of an inherited condition on DH's side which in fact is the reason why DN lost his DM. DH is not at all emotionally stunted and our relationship is strong and happy. He also financially props up his DF and DB for the same reason. He is not at all a bad person - he saw what would happen if we didn't have DN so he did it - it wasn't case of promising me anything. I am disappointed with their lack of bond but I can't hear it said that he's been dishonest about it.

That said, as you say, I do think DN knows I'm fighting his corner. I got him into a really great school and he has already acknowledged that the default option would have been much worse. He's no fool, he knows it's difficult for me.

For anyone who's concerned though, I was only joking about being an emotional wreck, we have a very good, pretty easy life

Sorry if I have misread what you were saying about your husband, it read like he really wasn't there for this boy at all and left the parenting to you, I probably wrongly extrapolated you would be angry about this or at the very least quite tired of being left to do all the parenting. It's actually a very good thing if your own relationship is strong, as that models that for him.

I was taken on by my uncle and aunt after the death of both my parents. It was hard. I tend now to talk about it matter of factly or discuss the practicalities but I don't talk about the emotional horrors of what I went through. I just assume people won't or can't understand so I am surprised to see so many posts here about similar - ish situations.
My uncle and aunt were very practically good to me and I am sure loved me but it wasn't the same as my birth parents would have been and probably never could have been. I know now they really did do there best and they still try to treat me equally to there own children but I am not an equal and I know it really.
I was never offered counseling or any other support, I was expected to just get on with it.
I had to grow up very quickly and learned form a very young age to be very independent as I felt I was on my own (even though I wasn't exactly).
I probably wasn't very grateful at the time for what my family did to me, my focus was just on getting through stuff and trying to get what I could to make life feel ok and make it feel like I was still in charge of my own destiny somehow.
I still am very practical and independent.
Its been 15 years since I moved out of my uncle and aunt and I think that now i should go back to my uncle and aunt and properly thank their for all there love, care and support but Im not very good at explaining my emotions as I had to suppress them so much as a child.
To anyone else bringing up a child who has lost there parents I do say a massive thank you and God bless you as I am sure its a thankless task and pretty grim and I am sure the children involved won't be able to show there gratitude but deep down it'll be there :-)