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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

DH suggested I put this to you lot. What do you think?

422 replies

AntideluvianCat · 25/07/2014 11:43

I'm going to try to keep this as neutral as possible, as it seems DH and I both completely believe we're in the right, despite our opposing views. Also going to try not to drip feed.

We've been together two years, married just over a year. We both have DDs from previous relationships. Mine (12) lives with us and goes to see her dad overnight at the weekend; his (13) stays two nights a week. My DD has some SEN, and coupled with the hormonal chaos of being 12, can be quite hard work. I also work 25 hours a week in a job that I love, but that can also be stressful and a bit overwhelming (social work).

A couple of months ago, DH told me that if I won't dress up for sex - ie. stockings, suspenders, thong, basque, whatever - he can't see any point in our relationship continuing. I was absolutely flabberghasted. It was like being kicked in the head. He did apologise, and we patched things up a bit, but he keeps coming back to the same thing every time we have words. He says that it would make him feel wanted and appreciated, that he is constantly giving to me, and that I give nothing back.

Thing is, I DO want and appreciate him. I love him. I'm so glad we found each other, at this relatively late stage in life (I'm 40, he's 50). But I find the weekdays hard, when DD is playing up and I'm exhausted from work and the constant bloody grind of housework and organising everything. As consequence, sex tends to happen at the weekends. I'd say we probably have sex a couple of times at the weekend, and sometimes, but not always, once during the week.

The funny thing is, that at the weekends when I'm relaxed and can focus on us rather than everybody else, I do dress up for him, and am happy to do so. I really enjoy it, and love the effect it has on him. This morning, during yet another argument about this, I reminded him of this, but he said it doesn't count because I'm only doing it under duress. I'm not doing it under duress, but it seems I can't win. He is insistant that I should - on say, a Tuesday evening, when I've been at work, then come home and have been running around doing domestic chores and coping with / helping / monitoring / disciplining DD til 9.30pm, I should pop on some saucy underwear and adopt the sex kitten persona. But I don't want anyone to make anymore demands on mme. It's all I can do to crawl into bed and read for half an hour.

In the interests of balance, I should add that DH has more money than me and props me up a bit financially, which I'm incredibly grateful for and regularly tell him so. He does most of the washing up, hoovers the house once a week, cleans the bathrooms, does any gardening, and helps me with DD a lot. I have quite high standards domestically (but not ridiculous - I only clean once a week and change beds every 7 - 10 days), and am very tidy. Being tidy helps me feel on top of things, and I make no apology for it. DH says that he likes my standards, but doesn't really help to maintain them. I feel that I tidy up after him a lot.

An example: He eats a lot of biscuits. I have asked him to use a plate for these, as otherwise I have to clear up his crumbs. He refuses; thinks I'm being ridiculous. I got a telling off a couple of weeks ago for asking his DD to eat off a plate too. I've tried to explain to him that this little thing could actually help with the sex thing - I wouldn't feel so resentful having to clear up after him all the time. But it is just dismissed. He actually said to me this morning (and I quote) " we should have high standards domestically, and high standards in the bedroom" Shock

Your goign to tell me to LTB aren't you? Sad

OP posts:
pictish · 25/07/2014 18:51

All the wine pouring, holiday booking, money earning in the world doesn't mean jack when you are being bullied for sex.
It's not like he's toting up sex points by behaving like a decent human being.

" if I won't dress up for sex - ie. stockings, suspenders, thong, basque, whatever - he can't see any point in our relationship continuing"

He's living in an adolescent porn driven fantasy land. I can't believe he asked you to put this to us thinking we'd side with his pov...how the fuck has he made it to the age of 50 while still being so spectacularly clueless?

Of course, when he hears how the mumsnetters have sided, we'll all be frigid bitches and man haters, and nothing will convince him otherwise.
He's had 50 years to practice being him, so Mr Stockings-and-Suspenders is there to stay.
What a tawdry man.

Doesn't sound like a very satisfying or happy scenario to me. You have my sympathy OP. He must be exhausting.

SlicedAndDiced · 25/07/2014 18:52

He's a cunt.

Get rid, job done Grin

ABlandAndDeadlyCourtesy · 25/07/2014 18:53

Why does what he wants in bed matter more than what you want?

MTWTFSS · 25/07/2014 19:00

"I'm exhausted from work and the constant bloody grind of housework and organising everything."

Why do you do everything?

bubblebabeuk · 25/07/2014 19:33

So OP are you going to show him this thread?

bubblebabeuk · 25/07/2014 19:35

I am in the LTB camp by the way, you deserve better. Leave him with his bloody porn

CarryOnDancing · 25/07/2014 19:57

I don't want this to turn into a porn debate but I really think it's key here and you need to discuss it with him.
Others upthread have picked up on this too as it's recognised that porn can create unrealistic expectations and ideas of how sex should be.

The only reason I can see for your DH to suggest posting here is because he actually expected us to all say how much we love dressing up and there's no bigger turn on than turning your man on, so you should do it more etc etc

He thinks this because his views are based on porn and the fact that those women are always up for it and more than happy to oblige. Even if he knows that not every woman is like that, seeing it over and over makes him think that there must still be a lot of women just "gagging for it" all the time.

He's now starting to become desensitised to "normal" sex without any props or particular fantasy. This is a concern as it suggests that just the closeness and intimacy of being with his wife isn't sexually enough-and that's nothing to do with how desirable you are. Unfortunately, you are now the prop in the show.

Wanting this as part of a varied sexual diet is one thing but I'd be very offended if DH said he didn't want sex with me but did want it with the sexy secretary from work or the kinky nurse who's just clocking off, or whatever other depressing stereotypes get him going.

Really, he has a problem with sex and it stems from his porn use and possible past prostitute use.
His attitude to women in general, not just you, is a big problem.

There's a lot of talking to be done and none of it need be about biscuits!

On the biscuit front though-if he inhales/sucks in during the biscuit bite then the amount of crumbs will be reduced massively. We are so good at it now that we don't need plates anymore Grin

AntideluvianCat · 25/07/2014 20:09

I do everything because no one else would even notice that it needed doing. And I want to live in a pleasant environment and be reasonably organised, thus avoiding any last minute panicking, losing things, etc.

And yes I am going to show his this thread, because I am fucking fuming. Thank you for helping the scales fall from my eyes. I am going to meet my oldest friend at 9 o'clock for an emergency bucket of wine, because at the moment I don't want to even be in the same fucking post code as him.

OP posts:
lavenderhoney · 25/07/2014 20:10

He hasn't just discovered this- he knew he liked it when he met you, ( experience and age - you know what turns you on, be it bondage, vanilla, whatever) so its strange he didn't make an effort to find out if you liked it as well, as clearly sexually you could be incompatible.

Its a bit late now, unless you want to dress up, but frankly, after him saying what he has, it would make you feel under pressure and not enjoy it.

So he's an arse, and not a very emotionally intelligent one.

EhricLovesTheBhrothers · 25/07/2014 20:14

The thing about performance sex is that it's fine for occasions but it creates a layer between the two of you, which can act as a barrier to genuine, communicative, intimate sex. Without that, a sex life if meaningless.

AntideluvianCat · 25/07/2014 20:16

Yy lavender - it's not that I don't like it, I just don't want to do it all the time or be harrassed into it!

OP posts:
SolidGoldBrass · 25/07/2014 20:16

It's not, actually, really about sex or about porn. It's about his idea that a 'woman' is something which a man is entitled to own and train to obedience. He sees women as a cross between domestic appliances and domestic pets. As has been said on similar threads in the past, this type of abusive man may 'love' his female partner in the way some people love their dogs.
You have a dog; you love it. You make sure it's properly fed and has a comfortable home, you treat it, on the whole, with affection. But at the same time, it's a dog. It's not allowed on some of the furniture. It has to be trained to obey. It has to Know Its Place. It's a dog.

Hissy · 25/07/2014 20:28

Has the question Why the fuck would you marry him after knowing him only a year when you have kids to consider been asked yet?

This is ringing some large bells for me OP, clanking bells.

Crumbs is a sign of a lack of considerable, insisting on dressing up, or threatening 'the end' is a sign of disdain and contempt.

A normal man might suggest it, but "insist"? No. An arse.

Don't show him the thread, show him the door.

eggnut · 25/07/2014 20:29

I don't think it's a very mumsnetty thing to do but I would like to edge toward you and give you an awkward hug, AntideluvianCat. I"m sorry you're in this situation. I know you deserve much better than this.

paxtecum · 25/07/2014 20:32

My XH was into the dressing up. All the time. Every time.
I reckoned it could have been anyone wearing those clothes. It was the clothes that turned him on, not making love with his wife.

I don't think we ever did make love but we did have sex.

You have a difficult decision to make.

AntideluvianCat · 25/07/2014 20:34

Hissy - I'd known him for more than a year. We work together.

And thank you, eggnut, your hug is much appreciated Smile

OP posts:
Maryz · 25/07/2014 20:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

bauhausfan · 25/07/2014 20:38

If he needs clothes to feel turned on then it's the clothes that he fancies, not you. Give him a handful of underwear, tell him to wank himself to death then kick his sad, creepy, sexist arse out the door. Yuck and double yuck!

StandsOnGoldenSands · 25/07/2014 20:47

He thinks he has bought you and now he wants you to fulfil your half of the bargain.

Get rid. Asap. And pity his poor daughter.

AntideluvianCat · 25/07/2014 21:02

Right. I'm going out, and he's (presumably) going to read this.
I may be back tomorrow.

OP posts:
silveroldie2 · 25/07/2014 21:03

I hope you enjoy your wine OP. This would be a huge turn off for me and he would be lucky to get sex at all. I have done the dressing up thing in my relationships, but it was my choice, not my partner demanding it of me.

I suggest you buy the biggest vibrator you can find, tell him you have decided to spice things up a bit and shove it up his arse oxo tower.

FastWindow · 25/07/2014 21:11

My Dh would frankly swoon at the amount of sex you two are having, and we are very similar ages to you two. Look up 'objectify' , op's Dh. And 'mutual' while you're at it.

Herecomesthesciencebint · 25/07/2014 21:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Hissy · 25/07/2014 22:12

Ah, I see love, it was the comment you made about being together 2yrs, married one.

Knowing someone is nothing like going out wwith them, having a relationship with them, as you're finding out.

This man, I strongly feel, is abusive. He's warming up, it won't get better, only worse. He thinks you only there to serve him, to please him.

Please don't show him this thread, he'll only use it to his own advantage to further control you.

He'll discount and disagree with everything here that doesn't support him, he'll discredit the support you get here.

Love, you have to seriously look at what you get out of this relationship and how equal things are. Think about what it's showing your dd about relationships.

FuckYouChrisAndThatHorse · 25/07/2014 22:14

Everything about this is just... Odd. His attitude, his demands, the fact that you doing it isn't enough. It's all such a horrible way of looking at the wife you are supposed to love and respect.

I hope you enjoy your bucket of wine, op. Hold on to that anger, it's justified.