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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

DH suggested I put this to you lot. What do you think?

422 replies

AntideluvianCat · 25/07/2014 11:43

I'm going to try to keep this as neutral as possible, as it seems DH and I both completely believe we're in the right, despite our opposing views. Also going to try not to drip feed.

We've been together two years, married just over a year. We both have DDs from previous relationships. Mine (12) lives with us and goes to see her dad overnight at the weekend; his (13) stays two nights a week. My DD has some SEN, and coupled with the hormonal chaos of being 12, can be quite hard work. I also work 25 hours a week in a job that I love, but that can also be stressful and a bit overwhelming (social work).

A couple of months ago, DH told me that if I won't dress up for sex - ie. stockings, suspenders, thong, basque, whatever - he can't see any point in our relationship continuing. I was absolutely flabberghasted. It was like being kicked in the head. He did apologise, and we patched things up a bit, but he keeps coming back to the same thing every time we have words. He says that it would make him feel wanted and appreciated, that he is constantly giving to me, and that I give nothing back.

Thing is, I DO want and appreciate him. I love him. I'm so glad we found each other, at this relatively late stage in life (I'm 40, he's 50). But I find the weekdays hard, when DD is playing up and I'm exhausted from work and the constant bloody grind of housework and organising everything. As consequence, sex tends to happen at the weekends. I'd say we probably have sex a couple of times at the weekend, and sometimes, but not always, once during the week.

The funny thing is, that at the weekends when I'm relaxed and can focus on us rather than everybody else, I do dress up for him, and am happy to do so. I really enjoy it, and love the effect it has on him. This morning, during yet another argument about this, I reminded him of this, but he said it doesn't count because I'm only doing it under duress. I'm not doing it under duress, but it seems I can't win. He is insistant that I should - on say, a Tuesday evening, when I've been at work, then come home and have been running around doing domestic chores and coping with / helping / monitoring / disciplining DD til 9.30pm, I should pop on some saucy underwear and adopt the sex kitten persona. But I don't want anyone to make anymore demands on mme. It's all I can do to crawl into bed and read for half an hour.

In the interests of balance, I should add that DH has more money than me and props me up a bit financially, which I'm incredibly grateful for and regularly tell him so. He does most of the washing up, hoovers the house once a week, cleans the bathrooms, does any gardening, and helps me with DD a lot. I have quite high standards domestically (but not ridiculous - I only clean once a week and change beds every 7 - 10 days), and am very tidy. Being tidy helps me feel on top of things, and I make no apology for it. DH says that he likes my standards, but doesn't really help to maintain them. I feel that I tidy up after him a lot.

An example: He eats a lot of biscuits. I have asked him to use a plate for these, as otherwise I have to clear up his crumbs. He refuses; thinks I'm being ridiculous. I got a telling off a couple of weeks ago for asking his DD to eat off a plate too. I've tried to explain to him that this little thing could actually help with the sex thing - I wouldn't feel so resentful having to clear up after him all the time. But it is just dismissed. He actually said to me this morning (and I quote) " we should have high standards domestically, and high standards in the bedroom" Shock

Your goign to tell me to LTB aren't you? Sad

OP posts:
BookABooSue · 25/07/2014 15:46

Anti this is a big issue. I know you're trying to balance it against him making tea and taking you on holiday but he is setting you up to fail. If you dress up at the weekends, it's not good enough. If, under duress, you dress up during the week, do you really think that would be good enough? It sounds as though there would be some other issue eg then he'd complain it was under duress too (because it would be!).

I had an ex who used to make big bold statements like your dh. My biggest mistake was downplaying them because they seemed so ridiculous, I assumed he couldn't really mean what he was saying. He did mean it. And I only wish I had really listened much sooner and not wasted time with him.

He's undermining you. The biscuit issue seems to be saying he can set rules for the house but you can't despite the fact that the resulting work falls to you.

MN deals in absolutes and that can be hard to hear but you don't need to listen to us, just listen to what he is telling you and see what he is showing you:

Your relationship isn't worth anything if you're not dressing the way he wants, when he wants. It sounds ridiculous but it isn't. He said that about your relationship. What would you tell a friend who said a partner had said that? Wouldn't you be reminding her of everything she brought to the relationship? Telling her how much you valued her and that worthwhile relationships aren't built on conditions and threats? Now, you can tell yourself the same.

hellsbellsmelons · 25/07/2014 15:46

That is TO the far side!

AntideluvianCat · 25/07/2014 15:53

Thanks for enlightening me hellsbells

He says that my requests for plate use are just one of many examples of my controlling behaviour... Hmm

OP posts:
Thumbwitch · 25/07/2014 15:57

Soooo - he does stuff for you, and he helps you out financially, and he expects that you should dress up for sex, which you do when you have the time but somehow that's not enough for him?

I think he thinks he's losing out on the "deal" - that he's "doing all this stuff for you" and you're just not reciprocating by falling at his feet and doing whatever he wants, whenever he wants, however he wants.

Newsflash - life ain't like that!

If you truly care about someone, then you do stuff for them with no expectation of recompense. If you're doing it in the hope that you'll get something back, then chances are you'll be disappointed (and he is).

I also agree with the illogicality of not appreciating you dressing up at the weekend because he thinks it's under duress but still trying to force you to dress up midweek when you're knackered - what?

Silly question - has he got someone else on the go? Because if they start putting you in an impossible situation, setting you up for a fall, then it can be a sign that they're looking for a fight, looking for a reason to exit the relationship and make it All About You Being Wrong.

Perhaps you should take turns with the dressing up - you do it at the weekends and he can do it midweek (if you still care enough, I wouldn't) - see how he likes getting all dressed up in whatever turns you on after a day at work!

AS for the biscuits thing, that's just rude.

Gen35 · 25/07/2014 15:58

Tbh I agree the using a plate thing is a bit controlling but I'm sure you'd agree to drop that if he cleaned up the crumbs. The in-week dressing up I agree with everyone else, just seems weird, unnecessary and pressurising. I hope he sees why he's being an idiot...

hellsbellsmelons · 25/07/2014 15:59

Ahhhh... of course.
It's YOU who is controlling.
All controlling bullies say this.

Why is it controlling if you'd rather crumbs land on a plate than on the floor where YOU have to clear them up?
His logic is completely flawed.

The more you write the more of a twat he sounds.

Lagoonablue · 25/07/2014 16:03

It never ceases to amaze me what some people will tolerate in relationships. My DH are from from perfect and have our issues but neither of us would feel as entitled as your DH seems to be.

Honestly he sounds like a dick.

AntideluvianCat · 25/07/2014 16:04

Oh, God yes! I'm just trying to save myself extra work. He can make as much mess as he likes if he's going to clean it up himself.

I'm fairly confident there's no one else. We are together most of the time, work together, and he rarely goes out, except cycling. Still, I suppose one never knows.

OP posts:
Tiredemma · 25/07/2014 16:06

I feel like I have 'fallen' into the 1950's

Thumbwitch · 25/07/2014 16:06

I must be desperately controlling then Hmm - I make all the males in my family (DH, Ds1 (6) and DS2 (21mo)) eat from plates, bowls or at the table. I really CBA to be chasing around cleaning up their crumbs all the time and I know damn well no one else would do it!

AntideluvianCat · 25/07/2014 16:09

Thanks Thumbwitch, nice to know I'm not alone Smile

OP posts:
sarine1 · 25/07/2014 16:12

Anti, You're a social worker (I think you said) ? (and is he??)
What would you say to a client who told you that her OH was demanding sex with her even when she didn't want it and had threatened to leave her if she didn't comply?

Gen35 · 25/07/2014 16:16

Yep if that's his best evidence of your unreasonable behaviour he's clutching at straws...maybe you should suggest he has therapy on his own to understand why he has such unrealistic expectations?

Maryz · 25/07/2014 16:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ScrambledSmegs · 25/07/2014 16:19

Agree with Cogito - he's watched way too much porn and it's skewed his understanding of the sexual side of relationships. Wouldn't be surprised if he'd visited prostitutes in the past either, as he seems to be approaching your relationship like a business transaction.

The biscuits thing is massively disrespectful, where does he get off telling you that you're being controlling when he isn't the one cleaning up his crumbs? He's living in a bubble if he thinks that's controlling Hmm.

Thumbwitch · 25/07/2014 16:21

I don't think I meant that he had another girlfriend/lover as such, I think my subconscious was making the leap to a more specific sort of extramarital activity, with a very specific sort of person who would happily dress up for sex for money...

Thumbwitch · 25/07/2014 16:22

Oh there you go, Smegs said it too. ONly much more clearly.

AntideluvianCat · 25/07/2014 16:23

Sarine, yes, of course I'd be concerned. Food for thought.

Maryz you made me laugh Grin
Tough love!

OP posts:
Viviennemary · 25/07/2014 16:23

Get him a rabbit costume or similar and ask him to wear that at all times. I really couldn't be bothered with this. The biscuit stuff has nothing to do with this issue. You just have to decide how much you want to pander to his whims and take it from there.

RandomFriend · 25/07/2014 16:26

I also insist that biscuits are eaten from plates.

AntideluvianCat · 25/07/2014 16:29

Yes I think a few people have intimated that thumbwitch and smegs. I can see why, but I'm 100% confident that's not the case. Thank God.

OP posts:
CogitoErgoSometimes · 25/07/2014 16:29

Agreeing with a PP... it's fairly standard for the controlling person, when challenged, to accuse others of being controlling. Suspicious people accuse others of being suspicious. Unfaithful people accuse others of being unfaithful. It's a version of 'attack is the best form of defence' and they tend to go for something they're familiar with.

It's not 'controlling' to ask someone not to drop crumbs everywhere. Controlling would be dictating that if they didn't use a particular plate and eat a specific kind of biscuit it meant that there was no point in continuing with the relationship.

sarine1 · 25/07/2014 16:32

Anti - I think when we're in a 'caring' profession we can spend a lot of time trying to accommodate other peoples behaviours - be understanding, wondering why etc. It's what we do and it can leach into our own relationships. It helps to take the behaviour away from our own context and just see it for what it is - sexual bullying and selfishness of the highest order.
You've invested a lot in him and it must be very painful to have to confront how awful he's being.

redrubyindigo · 25/07/2014 16:38

The clearing up after a messy and demanding man sounds like my ex-dh.

I really didn't fancy shagging a man when I felt more like his mother.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles · 25/07/2014 16:49

It's all been said already. How can he think he's missing out on spontaneity when he has this formulaic approach regarding costume?

I expect next he'll suggest you drop your job so you have more time to see to his needs. He'll present it as another example of how generous he is. That would put you in the situation where you become more dependent. Or as he'd hope, more grateful.

Get a grip (so to speak) Mr AntideluvianCat.