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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

DH suggested I put this to you lot. What do you think?

422 replies

AntideluvianCat · 25/07/2014 11:43

I'm going to try to keep this as neutral as possible, as it seems DH and I both completely believe we're in the right, despite our opposing views. Also going to try not to drip feed.

We've been together two years, married just over a year. We both have DDs from previous relationships. Mine (12) lives with us and goes to see her dad overnight at the weekend; his (13) stays two nights a week. My DD has some SEN, and coupled with the hormonal chaos of being 12, can be quite hard work. I also work 25 hours a week in a job that I love, but that can also be stressful and a bit overwhelming (social work).

A couple of months ago, DH told me that if I won't dress up for sex - ie. stockings, suspenders, thong, basque, whatever - he can't see any point in our relationship continuing. I was absolutely flabberghasted. It was like being kicked in the head. He did apologise, and we patched things up a bit, but he keeps coming back to the same thing every time we have words. He says that it would make him feel wanted and appreciated, that he is constantly giving to me, and that I give nothing back.

Thing is, I DO want and appreciate him. I love him. I'm so glad we found each other, at this relatively late stage in life (I'm 40, he's 50). But I find the weekdays hard, when DD is playing up and I'm exhausted from work and the constant bloody grind of housework and organising everything. As consequence, sex tends to happen at the weekends. I'd say we probably have sex a couple of times at the weekend, and sometimes, but not always, once during the week.

The funny thing is, that at the weekends when I'm relaxed and can focus on us rather than everybody else, I do dress up for him, and am happy to do so. I really enjoy it, and love the effect it has on him. This morning, during yet another argument about this, I reminded him of this, but he said it doesn't count because I'm only doing it under duress. I'm not doing it under duress, but it seems I can't win. He is insistant that I should - on say, a Tuesday evening, when I've been at work, then come home and have been running around doing domestic chores and coping with / helping / monitoring / disciplining DD til 9.30pm, I should pop on some saucy underwear and adopt the sex kitten persona. But I don't want anyone to make anymore demands on mme. It's all I can do to crawl into bed and read for half an hour.

In the interests of balance, I should add that DH has more money than me and props me up a bit financially, which I'm incredibly grateful for and regularly tell him so. He does most of the washing up, hoovers the house once a week, cleans the bathrooms, does any gardening, and helps me with DD a lot. I have quite high standards domestically (but not ridiculous - I only clean once a week and change beds every 7 - 10 days), and am very tidy. Being tidy helps me feel on top of things, and I make no apology for it. DH says that he likes my standards, but doesn't really help to maintain them. I feel that I tidy up after him a lot.

An example: He eats a lot of biscuits. I have asked him to use a plate for these, as otherwise I have to clear up his crumbs. He refuses; thinks I'm being ridiculous. I got a telling off a couple of weeks ago for asking his DD to eat off a plate too. I've tried to explain to him that this little thing could actually help with the sex thing - I wouldn't feel so resentful having to clear up after him all the time. But it is just dismissed. He actually said to me this morning (and I quote) " we should have high standards domestically, and high standards in the bedroom" Shock

Your goign to tell me to LTB aren't you? Sad

OP posts:
AntideluvianCat · 26/07/2014 01:02

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ at poster's request.

sykadelic · 26/07/2014 01:03

He would find it sexy if you wore stockings and suspenders.

Men are visual.

You would fit it sexy if he used a plate. Stopped hassling you for sex and if you felt loved, and good enough just by being you.

Women are emotional.


It's hard to do something when someone nags you about it. Even if you do enjoy it you start to feel resentful doing it and stop liking it. That fun thing now has a negative connotation.

He needs to understand, and why he's failing to see it I don't know, that you KNOW that's what he likes. That doesn't mean it needs to be every time. Makes it less special. He doesn't need to nag you about it, you'll do it when you feel like it.

If that's not good enough, if YOU are not good enough, will you ever be?
HeartsTrumpDiamonds · 26/07/2014 01:18

Ask him to dress up for you. No, tell him to. Tell him to wear your knickers. Maybe that will spark some understanding.

However in all seriousness I think Maryz' letter is a good idea.

kaykayblue · 26/07/2014 04:40

I'm not going to say ltb over this, but your husband IS being a totally immature pray of the highest order. Any sexual "service" request that starts with"if you loved me then you would..." Should be met with an automatic "you're being a fucking pillock".

How about "if you loved me then you wouldn't NEED me to be trussed up like some 80's hooker every fucking time we have sex."

It sounds like he has the men talk age of a teenager when it comes to sex.

tell him that you'll do it more often only if HE dresses up in the same thing on a regular basis. Complete with lipstick (ala rocky horror).

What a knob end.

kaykayblue · 26/07/2014 04:56

Sorry for typos.

I tried dressing up for my partner once - the full works. When he walked in you could have cut the awkwardness with a knife.

Just to let you know that this isn't something every couple are doing on a regular basis...

KeatsiePie · 26/07/2014 05:53

Great letter maryz

Anti I actually would write that out and give it to him.

Also, it's ridiculous for him to say "WE should have high standards" in any area unless 1) you have both agreed that those standards are important and 2) he is prepared to make significant contributions to meeting those standards. What he really means is "I will set standards to my taste and sit back and evaluate whether you have met them." Which is, again, ridiculous, and also shitty.

Minime85 · 26/07/2014 06:39

How are u this morning op? I'd go with maryz letter. Not over emotional but just enough that if he isn't a complete arse it should wake him up to realise he needs to change.

lavenderhoney · 26/07/2014 06:46

He clearly isn't working hard enough and pulling his weight every single day if he thinks you can add get changed, put on make up and suspenders etc after a normal days work, dc, evening doing chores- oh, wait, this is your last chore isn't it?

You've got a few issues here, but the sex one - soon you won't want to at all, because you'll be thinking he only wants it with you dressed up. So you'll start to feel even more pressure. And its not your job to turn him on so he wants sex. You mutually do that. What, is he enjoying a glass of wine / dropping biscuits all over the floor whilst you're upstairs getting ready for his big moment?

End the relationship? Tbh, if its such a big deal to him, he's probably right. I couldn't face a lifetime of dressing up every night for sex.

Lweji · 26/07/2014 07:02

Only came to this thread and you have had very good replies and suggestions (such as LTB, FOTTFSOFAFOSM, him dressing up, stop the porn, stop being an arse and so on).

Your statement
Also, I think I'm possibly coming across as a bit more passive than I actually am. I'm confident and assertive, and I generally won't do things that I don't want to do.

stood out.
We all start like this. Many abused women report being assertive, independent and confident, only to have lost it over the years because they have stood by a man who was controlling, ungrateful, demanding, manipulative and overall abusive.

The way I read it he is on the first steps towards full blown abuse.
He is financially abusive if you have it ingrained that there's his and your money and you should be grateful for the lifestyle he provides you.
He is sexually abusive because of his demands for sex the way he wants it, with no consideration for your feelings.
He is already treating you like an object if he expects you to clear up after him.

You can try and work it out with him, but his true self is already coming out and if he can't at least see a bit of your point of view now, he'll only manipulate his behaviour to keep you hooked while putting more and more demands on you. Worse than that, you may well find yourself in a situation where you are dependent on him.
The little things he does for you are to keep you hooked. They cost very little for him. On the major things, he's an entitled twat who will destroy you.

Think about it. Do you trust this man to look after you if you get ill?

My only advice here is to LTB. Sorry.

And for your H: let her go and be happy.

Hissy · 26/07/2014 08:44

I don't agree that the letter is good (sorry Maryz) :)

It referenced Making Love.

What her H wants and is demanding is NOT making love.

Making love is about giving and sharing and caring. None of any of these ideas are entering his mind.

He couldn't give a shit about her feelings, wants, desires etc.

For him, it's a Fuck, a service, a need HE has. A RIGHT he's demanding.

Ugly. Vile. Abusive.

Hissy · 26/07/2014 08:45

Good post Lweji

eddielizzard · 26/07/2014 09:01

i'm afraid i agree. you are being objectified. made to feel guilty for him providing financial support, yet your support is not appreciated.

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 26/07/2014 09:51

He is, IMO, treating you just like a prostitute. Think about it. He's justifying sex how he likes it, when he likes it, because he provides financial support. Paying for sex. There you go, that pretty much sums it up. Really makes you feel special doesn't it? What an utter twat he is.

wyrdyBird · 26/07/2014 10:07

You said he looks after you, and yet...

I'm exhausted from work and the constant bloody grind of housework and organising everything

when I've been at work, then come home and have been running around doing domestic chores and coping with / helping / monitoring / disciplining DD til 9.30pm.....I don't want anyone to make anymore demands on me. It's all I can do to crawl into bed and read for half an hour

says that he likes my standards, but doesn't really help to maintain them. I feel that I tidy up after him a lot.

.....I'm not sure how this squares with looking after you, or even being attentive, as you said later.
Bringing you tea, or breakfast in bed, is very nice, but it's reminiscent of tending to a pet or an ornament, rather than genuinely caring about your wellbeing.

Someone who cared about your wellbeing would make sure you weren't worn down by drudgery, and wouldn't dream of suggesting sex if you were.

limon · 26/07/2014 10:10

He's a control freak. Really not worth continuing this relationship. Don't look back in fifteen years regretting having been subordinated.

Maryz · 26/07/2014 10:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GoldfishCrackers · 26/07/2014 10:58

You're still young. Could you really stomach another 40 years of this? It's not going to get any better, in fact I fear this is only the start.

Hissy · 26/07/2014 12:05

Deffo agree Maryz, putting her thoughts in words, even if they are never showwn to him would help the OP.

Anti I hope you find this thread helpful in identifying that your situation is very far from what is normally expected or acceptable.

Thinking of you

AntideluvianCat · 26/07/2014 12:39

maryz, Hissy, lewiji and everyone else: thank you. Yes, I am finding it very helpful Flowers

Just not sure what to do next. The letter is a good idea.
I just don't think it's possible for him to be able to rethink things and acknowledge how unreasonable he's being, and how seriously damaging the situation is. He's not good at admitting he's wrong even about the small stuff.

OP posts:
EhricLovesTheBhrothers · 26/07/2014 13:03

I know it's been said before but I'm musing on just why this is so unpleasant. It's as if you started your sex life thinking that he was aroused by you, and that the dressing up just enhanced that. It's now becoming clear that it's not actually you who arouses him, rather than outfits. He could be fucking anyone in a basque and suspenders. That, for me, would destroy my self esteem, sexual confidence and desire.

EhricLovesTheBhrothers · 26/07/2014 13:05

Also, this is pure nosiness, but can someone tell me how the dressing up thing works? I've never had sex with anyone who has been fussed about underwear and dressing up, it's always been get naked ASAP. Do you dress up, stand about for him to admire/til he gets hard then take it off? Or do you leave it on during the sex? Don't you miss skin on skin?

SolidGoldBrass · 26/07/2014 13:28

Yes, this is basically a man with very fixed ideas about women. WOmen exist for men's benefit and a man is entitled to purchase and own one and train it to his satisfaction. To men like this an intelligent, independent woman is actually more desirable because it's more satisfying to crush her. It's about him proving to himself that women are inferior to men.

aylesburyduck · 26/07/2014 13:30

If he will find it difficult to understand your point of view and admit to being wrong, then I think you have to take a very considered look at the future of your relationship.

He will just chip away at your sense of self until you are a puppet dancing to his tune.

He's manipulating, and knows exactly what he wants. Because you're standing up to him and questioning him he is losing his grip.

Asking you to post on MN?? I wonder if he's trying to make you doubt your own judgement. This thread has stuck with me all day...hope you're ok OP

GelfBride · 26/07/2014 14:31

I would walk away and not even give the tosser the courtesy of explaining why. Objects can't speak after all!

HumblePieMonster · 26/07/2014 15:05

keep most of it on, ehric, adjusting if necessary. sometimes items are torn off. hush. no-one heard me say that. it was all a long time ago.