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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Toxic SIL but I feel sorry for her too

81 replies

Hedgebets · 22/07/2014 01:20

DH and I got married three years ago. We are considerably younger than BIL and SIL, who have been married 17 years and have two DC. MIL is the matriarch. FIL is dead.

When DH and I first started dating he was very preoccupied and upset by the fact that BIL was having an affair and trying to leave SIL for an OW who he worked with. MIL and DH think family should always come first and, rightly or wrongly, read the riot act to BIL and told him that he needed to confess everything to SIL, get his head straight and get rid of the OW.

BIL capitulated to their view, got rid of the OW and confessed all to SIL who, to everyone's shock, instantly "forgave him," (after going to his work and telling BIL's boss and getting him and the OW sacked.) This was all while DH and I were first dating, and after her revenge, SIL was very keen to quickly sweep it all under the carpet. She made DH promise not to tell me anything that had happened because she "didn't want hedgebets to see the family in a bad light going forward." Hmm

DH told her that he hadn't told me, even though he had, and asked me to swear I'd never mention it to her, so I swore not to. He was very upset during the whole ordeal and often needed to offload on me about it, so I don't blame him for breaking his family's privacy - and now we are married, it is fine that I know about it anyway. MIL also doesn't know that I know.

Fast forward to now and SIL is becoming extremely controlling of everyone in the family. According to DH she was very controlling before, and BIL listed this as one of the reasons why he just could not be with her anymore. I'll try and give a few examples of what she does:

  • she needs to know where we all are at any given time. If I give her the information, she becomes very judgemental (DH and I went on holiday last month and only told MIL. When SIL found out, she texted immediately and demanded to know where we were and how long we were there. When I told her, she implied that DH and I were extravagant, lazy and afraid of work, eg: "where does the money come from for you two to go gallivanting off all the time? I suppose you are both just beach bums and so you don't really care about saving for your futures. Fair enough, you both have that kind of personality. I could never do that. BIL and I are only happy if we have money in the bank. Let's hope my DC take after BIL and I and not you two :-)") If I don't tell her where I am, I get several sarcastic texts "oh don't worry about me, I don't matter, I'm only your sister...too busy to talk to me, eh? Too much fun to reply?" and she will go direct to BIL, MIL or DH and bitch about me for being secretive and holding things back. In the holiday example, she went to MIL and told her that DH and I would probably go bankrupt from so much extravagant spending, which really worried MIL (who is now in her 70s) In the same vein, she will come to me and bitch about DH, BIL or MIL when they don't give her what she wants - so it is not just directed at me.
  • I am currently her 'favourite' because I reply to her texts and do what she wants, so she bitches to me mostly about the rest of the family. We are due to go on a big family holiday in September, and she has given me a shopping list of things she wants me to get for her that she cannot get in the city she lives in. This would be fine if I didn't feel like such a minion already. She has made several schedules for the holiday in advance and tried to tie us all in to those plans by sending out a family email with the schedule (swimming at 9am, run at 10am, lunch at 12 noon etc) and asking us to commit to it months in advance. She uses her DCs as an excuse for this regimented attitude and says that they need regularity and we all need to contribute to that by agreeing to and obeying the schedule. MIL often refuses to do this and she and SIL have huge rows as a result. SIL threatens her that she is isolating herself from her DGC by rejecting the schedule and if MIL doesn't get up at 7am to have breakfast with the DC, she will not see them all at all. So MIL eventually tows the line.
  • She puts down my relationship with DH and constantly compares it unfavourably to her relationship with BIL. She implies that they have more trust, more love, more attraction. Sometimes she sends me lessons over text or email about what I have to do "to keep my husband." Like she is some kind of wizened relationship guru. She tells me stories about DH as she knew him before he met me: "He never went out with women who were like you - oh no. Such a different type. Taller, thinner, more "career oriented."" While she patronises me about this I am burning inside, because she doesn't know I know that things are not and haven't been rosy for her and BIL, but for DH's sake I keep my mouth shut. She often comments in public on how insecurely I behave and how I shouldn't be so insecure. DH always defends me and shoots me apologetic looks, but it is obvious he is also afraid of her as he lives in fear of me finally exploding and telling her I know everything. She comments on my body - if I've put on weight or not. She's also a bit inappropriate. She noted that my boobs were bigger than hers and wondered aloud whether maybe DH and BIL liked big boobs, because MIL's boobs are big too. She then, in front of all of us and her DCs debated whether she should get a boob job or not to "please her husband." Then decides against it and says "BIL should love me as I am," then shoots him a poisonous look. This is most damaging, of course, to her DCs, who are constantly aware of the atmosphere between them.
  • I am now pregnant with my first DC and she is trying to tighten her grip on me. She asks me over text how I'm feeling, what I'm doing. And you've guessed it -- everything I am feeling and doing is completely WRONG. She has been especially controlling with me about this holiday schedule. She seems to want me, more than anyone, to be in the right place at the right time as she dictates. It doesn't take a genius psychologist to figure out that one of her prime modes of control is via the DCs. She has defined herself within our family group as a mother and uses the DCs like chess pieces to get everyone to do what she wants. Now that I am pregnant, I am threatening her role. So she is determined to have me under the thumb.

DH and I have got to the point where we wish they had just divorced. BIL is a shadow of the man he was. I am really torn with my opinion of her, because I entered my friendship with her completely on her side. I can see and understand the insecure part of her which needs to lash out at us. But it is like she is punishing us all for BIL's betrayal.

What, if anything, would you do about this?

OP posts:
Meerka · 22/07/2014 12:10

Im afraid you have three choices:

  1. accept your life being dominated for the rest of your/her days by her.

  2. starting to stand up to her, remaining calm but saying 'no we won't do that, but we'll see you on XXX date"

  3. cut her out

If you choose to go route 2 then it may or may not work. If it doesn't or if you go for the third option then I'm afraid that you may have to face that you don't have as much contact with her children. Or, worst case, any.

Unfortunately it's highly likely she'll make your time pregnant and with the baby a misery, and she'll play competitive games for the rest of your life. How far that will affect your child(ren) remains to be seen but the results of her influence won't be good.

It's honestly a stark and difficult choice for you and your husband because he's so deeply intertwined. I think you need to talk seriously with him, look at what's likely to happen and what the choices for him are going to be. can he consider stepping back from them? If he can, then you've got a fighting chance of protecting yoru child(ren) and your happiness. If he can't, then you have an even bigger problem. He needs to prioritise you; I hope he can.

If you can present a united and rather more distant front then you will have battles ahead, emotional ones most of all, but you can give your child(ren) and yourself a much, much nicer life

It'll need steel in your backbone. Good luck.

Meerka · 22/07/2014 12:14

Btw you may pity her but the price you are paying is high, and likely to become a lot lot higher.

Also, does it matter if she bitches about you? The hand on the Bitchtime clock has come to rest on you, it'll move on to someone else soon enough.

ShineSmile · 22/07/2014 12:15

She sounds completely vile abs dangerously.

If I were you, I would stop responding to her text messages. If she calls, speak to her, but keep it to the complete minimum. Put your floor down and tell her you'll make your own plans.

Tell her also that you know about her history.

ShineSmile · 22/07/2014 12:15

And she probably does bitch about you to others.

pictish · 22/07/2014 12:16

Oh God - tell her to fuck off, and thereafter stop engaging with her rubbish.
You are all being played with for her entertainment, because she is a bored, lonely person...which is not surprising, given how bloody awful she is. It's her own fault.

Come on you can do it. Fuck off. Fuck. Off. FUCK. OFF!

Cocolepew · 22/07/2014 12:23

Why when MIL does try to stand up to her does nobody back her up? Instead of waiting until she 'gives in and tows the line'?

I'd be telling her where to go, this is seriously odd that she's so pandered too.

pictish · 22/07/2014 12:26

"where does the money come from for you two to go gallivanting off all the time? I suppose you are both just beach bums and so you don't really care about saving for your futures. Fair enough, you both have that kind of personality. I could never do that. BIL and I are only happy if we have money in the bank. Let's hope my DC take after BIL and I and not you two :-)")

Fuck off.

"oh don't worry about me, I don't matter, I'm only your sister...too busy to talk to me, eh? Too much fun to reply?"

Fuck off.

She has made several schedules for the holiday in advance and tried to tie us all in to those plans by sending out a family email with the schedule (swimming at 9am, run at 10am, lunch at 12 noon etc) and asking us to commit to it months in advance. She uses her DCs as an excuse for this regimented attitude and says that they need regularity and we all need to contribute to that by agreeing to and obeying the schedule.

Fuck off.

She implies that they have more trust, more love, more attraction. Sometimes she sends me lessons over text or email about what I have to do "to keep my husband."

Fuck off.

She comments on my body

Fuck off.

She has been especially controlling with me about this holiday schedule. She seems to want me, more than anyone, to be in the right place at the right time as she dictates.

Fuck off.

I mean really - if you respond to her every insult, manipulation and tantrum thus, she will soon stop.

pictish · 22/07/2014 12:34

If you really can't bear to tell her to fuck off, 'stop it' will work just as well.

slithytove · 22/07/2014 12:36

Think Pictish has it! Grin

Easy to remember too

ThinkIveBeenHacked · 22/07/2014 12:41

Cant you just act breezy towards her controlling behaviour

"Up at seven" - well, I for one will be having a lie in on my holiday - I need it. But you lot just get on and enjoy your morning and ill tag along later

emails - redirect All her emails to your spam boxes. If she asks why you havent responded, just do a non committal wave and "oh I havent checked them in a week or so"

Be her opposite!

EleanorHandbasket · 22/07/2014 12:41

Laugh at her.

Actually laugh, with years of mirth rolling down your face.

It's the best way I've found to deal with my lot who do this occasionally. (Mum and sister).

She won't know how to respond.

BeCool · 22/07/2014 12:42

Step Away From The Toxic SIL!

flippinada · 22/07/2014 12:42

I felt claustrophobic, exhausted and fed up reading your post so I can only begin to imagine what living it feels like.

Actually your sil reminds me of my friends mother. Her behaviour is similarly vile and yet everyone in the family, inexplicably, cowtows and panders to her instead of telling her to pack it in and behave like a decent human being. One of her children lives on the other side of the world and the other is riddled with anxiety and chronic depression to the point where they have become physically ill. But still, mother must be obeyed.

Sorry, I digress, but please don't let this dreadful woman dominate your life. Someone mentioned that the only reason she has this power is because you all give it to her. For the sake of your mental and physical health you need to start asserting yourselves.

barrackobana · 22/07/2014 12:43

Pictish GrinGrin

StillStayingClassySanDiego · 22/07/2014 12:45

She's a fucking loon and she'll get bloody worse once you've had the baby.

Lessen the contact day by day, be short yet polite.

I feel for you, she's barking.

Lesnewth · 22/07/2014 12:45

My DH's family has a similar dynamic, with their lives totally intertwined. We were expected to have Sunday dinner with them every week, they were constantly dropping in unannounced.

I put a stop to that, there was no way I was living my life with them and dancing to their tune. It made me unpopular but saved my sanity.

You need to take control back, especially if you are pg.

Woman up!

Meerka · 22/07/2014 12:47

actually ... eleanor's tactic is great =)

Roussette · 22/07/2014 12:52

I am Shock at this thread. Surely people don't put up with this? Sorry OP but really.... you know it is very wrong because you wouldn't have posted asking if you didn't know.

Firstly, you need to speak to your DH. You just can't have one woman not related to you ruling your (and soon to be your family, i.e. your DH and DC) life like this. No one would be allowed to be checking up on me continually and asking where I was. 24 hours of that and I would be steamin'. As for telling you and your DH what you will be doing minute by minute on your holiday, that is just plain ridiculous. I am imagining her DCs are teens, how on earth do they put up with this?

I don't wish to offend you OP, but is your DH a bit weak about this? I have a SIL and if she did even 1% of what yours is doing, both my DH and I would totally withdraw and not engage. What is he frightened of? You spilling the beans on the affair? If so, he needs to tell her that you know about it and the reason you know is because he has tried to explain to you, his wife, about her unreasonable demands and nasty texts. He needs to man up to her for goodness sake.

Stop pandering to her. People like this take more and more and drain more and more if you allow it. Think of your unborn DC and your family. She is a complete and utter bully.

I agree with what someone said upthread. Tell her you won't be looking at texts from now on because it's taking up too much of your time and you want a peaceful and tranquil pregnancy. That's just the start. Then get your DH to put a stop to this. He should be on your side. Not hers.

Heels99 · 22/07/2014 13:04

Agree disengaging from the texting, emails and daily updates is first step. Text them all and tell them you are going technology free for a while. Then reply to the schedule for the holidays saying that you are just going to chill out.

Do not reply to texts, emails etc. leave them to it, don't engage in their drama. Try it.

ShineSmile · 22/07/2014 13:06

I would go cold turkey. As pp said, just text everyone to say you are going tech free for a few weeks. And then when she does start sending texts, ignore her.

MaryWestmacott · 22/07/2014 13:08

oh yes, laughter - mocking rather than treating her as a serious problem

Remember, she doesn't want to keep your DNs from you, and quite frankly, as terrible as it sounds, if she does, it'll still be ok. Lots of people dont see their cousins regularly.

Definately send a 'replay all' message back saying somthing like "lord SIL, do I not even get a lie in on holiday?!? Seriously, you plan whatever suits you and the chidren, thanks for letting us know what you'll be doing, if we fancy it on the day we'll tag along but I fully intend to do little more than rest, being pregnant is rather draining and this is my last holiday where I don't have to be dictated to by a child's routine so at the risk of sounding rude, no thanks to fitting round yours! love hedge xxx"

pictish · 22/07/2014 13:11

"Nice schedule - you've put lots of work into it, I can tell. I'm sure it will be really useful to you. Personally speaking, we're going to be winging it and taking each day as it comes. Lots of long lies and doing stuff as and when it pleases us. Holidays are great aren't they? Can't wait!"

pictish · 22/07/2014 13:12

That'll send her shy rocketing into orbit! Mwahhahahaa! Grin

pictish · 22/07/2014 13:12

*sky

BeCool · 22/07/2014 13:13

"Nice Schedule. Enjoy it - I don't do schedules on holidays! I do as I please"

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