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Relationships

Toxic SIL but I feel sorry for her too

81 replies

Hedgebets · 22/07/2014 01:20

DH and I got married three years ago. We are considerably younger than BIL and SIL, who have been married 17 years and have two DC. MIL is the matriarch. FIL is dead.

When DH and I first started dating he was very preoccupied and upset by the fact that BIL was having an affair and trying to leave SIL for an OW who he worked with. MIL and DH think family should always come first and, rightly or wrongly, read the riot act to BIL and told him that he needed to confess everything to SIL, get his head straight and get rid of the OW.

BIL capitulated to their view, got rid of the OW and confessed all to SIL who, to everyone's shock, instantly "forgave him," (after going to his work and telling BIL's boss and getting him and the OW sacked.) This was all while DH and I were first dating, and after her revenge, SIL was very keen to quickly sweep it all under the carpet. She made DH promise not to tell me anything that had happened because she "didn't want hedgebets to see the family in a bad light going forward." Hmm

DH told her that he hadn't told me, even though he had, and asked me to swear I'd never mention it to her, so I swore not to. He was very upset during the whole ordeal and often needed to offload on me about it, so I don't blame him for breaking his family's privacy - and now we are married, it is fine that I know about it anyway. MIL also doesn't know that I know.

Fast forward to now and SIL is becoming extremely controlling of everyone in the family. According to DH she was very controlling before, and BIL listed this as one of the reasons why he just could not be with her anymore. I'll try and give a few examples of what she does:

  • she needs to know where we all are at any given time. If I give her the information, she becomes very judgemental (DH and I went on holiday last month and only told MIL. When SIL found out, she texted immediately and demanded to know where we were and how long we were there. When I told her, she implied that DH and I were extravagant, lazy and afraid of work, eg: "where does the money come from for you two to go gallivanting off all the time? I suppose you are both just beach bums and so you don't really care about saving for your futures. Fair enough, you both have that kind of personality. I could never do that. BIL and I are only happy if we have money in the bank. Let's hope my DC take after BIL and I and not you two :-)") If I don't tell her where I am, I get several sarcastic texts "oh don't worry about me, I don't matter, I'm only your sister...too busy to talk to me, eh? Too much fun to reply?" and she will go direct to BIL, MIL or DH and bitch about me for being secretive and holding things back. In the holiday example, she went to MIL and told her that DH and I would probably go bankrupt from so much extravagant spending, which really worried MIL (who is now in her 70s) In the same vein, she will come to me and bitch about DH, BIL or MIL when they don't give her what she wants - so it is not just directed at me.


  • I am currently her 'favourite' because I reply to her texts and do what she wants, so she bitches to me mostly about the rest of the family. We are due to go on a big family holiday in September, and she has given me a shopping list of things she wants me to get for her that she cannot get in the city she lives in. This would be fine if I didn't feel like such a minion already. She has made several schedules for the holiday in advance and tried to tie us all in to those plans by sending out a family email with the schedule (swimming at 9am, run at 10am, lunch at 12 noon etc) and asking us to commit to it months in advance. She uses her DCs as an excuse for this regimented attitude and says that they need regularity and we all need to contribute to that by agreeing to and obeying the schedule. MIL often refuses to do this and she and SIL have huge rows as a result. SIL threatens her that she is isolating herself from her DGC by rejecting the schedule and if MIL doesn't get up at 7am to have breakfast with the DC, she will not see them all at all. So MIL eventually tows the line.


  • She puts down my relationship with DH and constantly compares it unfavourably to her relationship with BIL. She implies that they have more trust, more love, more attraction. Sometimes she sends me lessons over text or email about what I have to do "to keep my husband." Like she is some kind of wizened relationship guru. She tells me stories about DH as she knew him before he met me: "He never went out with women who were like you - oh no. Such a different type. Taller, thinner, more "career oriented."" While she patronises me about this I am burning inside, because she doesn't know I know that things are not and haven't been rosy for her and BIL, but for DH's sake I keep my mouth shut. She often comments in public on how insecurely I behave and how I shouldn't be so insecure. DH always defends me and shoots me apologetic looks, but it is obvious he is also afraid of her as he lives in fear of me finally exploding and telling her I know everything. She comments on my body - if I've put on weight or not. She's also a bit inappropriate. She noted that my boobs were bigger than hers and wondered aloud whether maybe DH and BIL liked big boobs, because MIL's boobs are big too. She then, in front of all of us and her DCs debated whether she should get a boob job or not to "please her husband." Then decides against it and says "BIL should love me as I am," then shoots him a poisonous look. This is most damaging, of course, to her DCs, who are constantly aware of the atmosphere between them.


  • I am now pregnant with my first DC and she is trying to tighten her grip on me. She asks me over text how I'm feeling, what I'm doing. And you've guessed it -- everything I am feeling and doing is completely WRONG. She has been especially controlling with me about this holiday schedule. She seems to want me, more than anyone, to be in the right place at the right time as she dictates. It doesn't take a genius psychologist to figure out that one of her prime modes of control is via the DCs. She has defined herself within our family group as a mother and uses the DCs like chess pieces to get everyone to do what she wants. Now that I am pregnant, I am threatening her role. So she is determined to have me under the thumb.


DH and I have got to the point where we wish they had just divorced. BIL is a shadow of the man he was. I am really torn with my opinion of her, because I entered my friendship with her completely on her side. I can see and understand the insecure part of her which needs to lash out at us. But it is like she is punishing us all for BIL's betrayal.

What, if anything, would you do about this?
OP posts:
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Fluffycloudland77 · 24/07/2014 16:44

Minty I wondered that too!.

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Mintberrycrunch · 24/07/2014 16:43

Are they all italians?

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AndTheBandPlayedOn · 23/07/2014 16:43

My sister ... the micromanaging, controlling power plays, rings alot of bells.
Dinner arrangements: when, where, she would tell us where to sit and monitor what we ate.

Imho, your OP mentioned the word "matriarch". It may be just a seed of thought, could your sil be in competition with mil for the throne? Not so much as directly putting mil down, but through actions that somehow prove her climbing status by being the defacto leader.

Learn to say "no". Recognize the game of "get that no into a yes" and refuse to alter your answer. The stock phrases already given are excellent tools, " that does not work for me", "not this time", or the one my sister saw as the kiss of death: I am not doing that.. Or just a string of quick "no, no, no, no"s will be a conversation stopper.

Ultimately, I became NC with sister. She would not back off. A baby was the timing for me (too Wink ).
Good luck and it is a true blessing that your dh is on board with you.

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emotionsecho · 23/07/2014 14:21

Hedge you asked what people would do, have any of their comments or suggestions helped?

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Preciousbane · 23/07/2014 10:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

pictish · 23/07/2014 09:44

That level of family enmeshment in itself is unacceptable, I'm sure sil is merely a product of her upbringing/environment.

I do wonder about that as well. Why was the OP's dh so very preoccupied with his sister's marriage in the first place?
I mean yeah...we'd all be pissed off to know our sibling had been cheated on...but I don't think it's healthy to be quite so upset about it, or involved.

The family dynamic seems rather skewed, where they all all so emotionally enmeshed in one another's affairs.

I have a good relationship with my brother for example, and if my dh cheated on me, I'm sure he'd sympathise with and lend a supportive ear...but I can't imagine him being 'very preoccupied and upset' by it to the point of 'needing to talk it out' with someone else...or God forbid approaching my dh to read him the riot act and tell him what he must do.

Not his marriage...not his business.

All very weird and cloying.

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JaceyBee · 23/07/2014 08:15

Jeez, no wonder her dh an affair! I agree with fluffy, your dh and mil were completely wrong to order him back to such a controlling nightmare of a woman.

That level of family enmeshment in itself is unacceptable, I'm sure sil is merely a product of her upbringing/environment. Does your dh regret that decision now? Does he get how inappropriate he was?

But anyway, she won't just wake up one day and decide to behave reasonably. She doesn't have the insight to realise how mental this all is. The only way things are going to change is if YOU change your responses to her. The group email reply someone suggested up thread is a good place to start. Yes she will get a in a strop, tough. You're going to have to sit with it. Let us know how you get on!

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Roussette · 23/07/2014 07:51

I just think the 'softly softly' approach is not going to work with her. She just won't 'get it'. You are going to have to go through some pain OP with your DH to get through to the other side. I hope you do that and get this awful woman off your back before it's too late. Now is your golden chance because you are expecting your own family.

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Imbroglio · 22/07/2014 22:59

She sounds awful but incredibly unhappy, as does her husband.

Maybe the body comparison is her trying to be matey? Maybe she thinks that's what close female relatives DO (bleugh).

Re the schedule, maybe you could shift things a bit by offering an alternative version for her - tell her you will be lying in (preggers etc), but could you borrow the children for an afternoon or two so that she can have some time to herself? Maybe approach her about doing something nice for your MiL?

And practice lots of useful phrases - 'that doesn't work for us'

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springydaffs · 22/07/2014 22:39

Couldn't post properly earlier - PC probs - but I am genuinely really concerned for those kids. Really worried.

She is mad (and for those who take offence at that term, she embodies it). She has some serious issues going on and if she's got you all cowed and completely under her control, I dread to think what she's doing to those poor kids.

It's not as simple as telling her to fuck off - who would be there to look out for the kids? They'd have no-one who represented normality, they'd be locked into her hyper control. It is horrifying.

What you are struggling with pales in comparison to what they're facing, and will continue to face as she steams on in her insanity.

I really don't think it's extreme to take steps to protect those kids from her. She/her behaviour is way out of control, the damage to her kids is incalculable. I appreciate it is/will be very difficult to do this but, please, they can't be left to be eaten alive by a mother who has clear MH/PD issues that she shows no sign of addressing. Their father is a shell because of it - and he's an adult.

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Fluffycloudland77 · 22/07/2014 21:48

It's partly your Dh's and mil fault, they should never have got involved all those years ago.

It had nothing to do with them.

They discovered all isn't as it seems in her marriage and my lord your all going to pay for it now.

I wouldn't respond to the texts, you don't lose all individuality upon marriage and become one homogenous group of people. She is mad.

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pictish · 22/07/2014 21:39

Distance I know right? Utterly bonkers...it and her.

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DistanceCall · 22/07/2014 21:34

Your SIL is insane. This is a crazy relationship. You don't have to tell her about your life. You don't have to commit months in advance to having lunch at 12 while on holiday. Stop it. You and your husband are adults. If she has personal problems, she can go to a psychologist.

Just imagine what she will be like when your child is born if this goes on.

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springydaffs · 22/07/2014 21:19

Never mind you, DH, BIL and MIL, what about her poor kids??

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captainmummy · 22/07/2014 15:12

Incidentally, why do you feel sorry for her? Because her dh had an affair? Of because you know but she doesn't know you know? Or because she has nothing else in life than controlling others?
I'd work on that if I were you

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emotionsecho · 22/07/2014 14:12

pictish me too, the silence would be deafening.

I would be sorely tempted on the holiday to get up really early and bugger off for the day with dh, mil and bil, and the dcs if I could sneak them out without her knowing, leave a note and switch all phones off and laugh at her hissy fit when we all returnedGrin. I must be evil.

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pictish · 22/07/2014 14:04

I can tell you with solemn certainty that if she was my sil, I would definitely not be her favourite. Wink

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captainmummy · 22/07/2014 13:51

pictish Grin

OP - she wants to know where you are/how much you've spent/how much fun you are having? Or she will 'bitch' about you? Yeah - SO?? Then what?

SHe compares your body to hers/MIL? Honestly - so rude. Call her on that straightaway.

Re the holiday schedule - what happens if you just ignore? She withdraws access to her dc? AND THEN WHAT? She finds that she has to look after them herself???? No aunties? No uncles? No Grandma? Hahahahahaha. Bet you anything that don 't happen!

In fact, anything which is not her business (Ie all of it) - ignore. See if she actually explodes!

You say you are her 'favourite' at the mo - this is the worst thing you can be. You need to be her complete nemesis, otherwise you will find yourself and your child walked all over. STOP IT NOW!

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MaryWestmacott · 22/07/2014 13:50

I think people have this IL problems, because they assume that their ILs are normal people, so if they are behaving oddly, it must be for a reason, like at first SIL could be seen as lashing out and trying to get control back after her DH having an affair, sort of reasonable in the short term, then suddenly, you realise it's been years and you are still all pandering to her because that's how things are done in that family.

Eventually, someone has to point out that the emporior has no clothes, you can be that person OP. You might have to get a reputation as another 'bitch' in the family, but as you said, SIL slags you off anyway when you do run around and pander to her, so why bother doing it?

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pictish · 22/07/2014 13:37

Don't waste your pity on the wretch - she has none for you, and she would gleefully see you miserable to indulge her own agenda.
Fuck her.

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emotionsecho · 22/07/2014 13:35

I know you say you feel sorry for her Hedge, but don't she has exacted an epic revenge not only on bil, but on the entire family including her own children.

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emotionsecho · 22/07/2014 13:33

Hedge please listen to what everyone on here is saying, some posters have had exactly this type of thing and worse from their in-laws, if you continue to put up with this you run the risk of it totally ruining your own marriage and the happiness of yourself and children.

Do you have any family of your own?

If you and your dh do not address this issue with your sil, she will take over when you have your child, your child will not be your child he/she will be a child of the family and hence under her control. Sil will interfere from the minute you give birth, and fast forward a few years your child will be subjected to the route march holidays, with the threat of him/her being cut off for failure to comply to sil's rules - is that really what you want? This is not acquiesing for a quiet life, this is acquesing for no life for you or your child.

Inform your sil you are aware of the history between her and her husband as you and your dh have no secrets, and then tell her clearly and firmly "no" to her shenanigans, don't argue just keep saying "no", if she threatens barring you and dh from seeing her children point out that she will be hurting her children as much as her brother.

Put the sanity and happiness of yourself, your dh and your child first and stop engaging with your sil's dramas and antics.

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pictish · 22/07/2014 13:32

vivienne i could not agree more.
This is only a problem if you allow it to be OP. Have her talk to the hand instead.

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Viviennemary · 22/07/2014 13:31

I just don't understand these in-law problems. Tell her to take a hike and get out of your life. Honestly, life is too short to beat about the bush sometimes.

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Itsfab · 22/07/2014 13:29

I am exhausted just reading your OP.

The boob discussion is disgraceful and someone should have stepped in. Her MIL breast size has NOTHING to do with what sized breasts her son's like Hmm.

You need to do something now otherwise she will spoil your first few weeks with your new baby. You will never get that time back and it would be impossible to forgive her.

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