how can I approach my boyfriend about legal/practical matters?

[lucyB456]

My boyfriend of 3 years and I have cut out contraception, not "trying" for a baby as such but ready for that to happen. We're in out early/mid 30's. We live together, and I took a big hit career-wise to move to his home town where he now works. We have a great time together: a great social life, holidays, and semi domestic-bliss...however...I fear our situation should become more 'definite' seeing as we might soon stop being just a 'couple' and start being a family. Obviously this has been our plan all along, and neither of us are bothered with marriage (this was my doing initially, thinking it was a pointless institution and that I would rather spend the money on travelling, now, I'm not so sure!). The thing is, he doesn't want to address the issue of if we broke up or if something happened to one of us down the line...he just says I worry too much. He doesn't appreciate that, while my loss of income and job prospects based on our location is a small thing now, it might be bigger down the line. For example, we have our own bank accounts and just buy our own stuff, pay our own halves of the rent...I am able to do this because I do temp work. But I am not entitled to maternity leave nor am I guaranteed that anyone will hire me if/when I become pregnant. I feel quite insecure, with no guaranteed income and no savings, and to be honest I'm starting to feel a bit resentful of his laid-back attitude. I don't want to sleep-walk into a position where I am very vulnerable financially. If I mention it though he just gets offended, saying he'll never "leave me short" and what sort of a person do I think he is...that he'll never leave. I'm not saying he will, but I feel like with children I need to be sure. My father left the family when I was very young, leaving my mother in a terrible position. I don't want to make the same mistake!! Can anyone offer any advice? Am I worrying about nothing?

Start by putting the contraception back in place. This is important stuff and, if you get pregnant accidentally without having got it all settled, you're potentially up Queer Street. Make it a condition of you having children that it's either marriage or a comprehensive session at the lawyers to sort out wills etc. followed by something equally detailed on how the family finances are going to work.

It is not 'worrying over nothing' to want more stability and security than 'I'll never leave you short'... it's hard-headed good sense. Plenty of women (and it's so often women) get it horribly wrong, pop out children, sacrifice careers on the strength of 'I'll always look after you' and discover a few years later that they've been replaced with a younger model and that they are entitled to nothing whatsoever. If he's serious about being a proper family, there's no reason for him to get offended whatsoever.

I agree with Cog. Children should come after the security is in place!

We've all seen too many women left in terrible situations by men who were outraged by the very idea that they would ever...

and, although I am impressed by his belief that through sheer force of will, he can prevent any accident, injury or his untimely death, sadly that power is beyond even the mightiest of men and he might need to stop being a baby and get the practicalities sorted.

Not using contraception IS trying for a baby. You must make sure you have discussed all legal, financial and practical issues before you get pregnant.

If you aren't using contraception then in effect you are trying for a baby. Don't put yourself is such a financially vulnerable position. I think it's red flags when he refuses to discuss financial matters.

Women and their children have far more protection in law than a cohabiting partner would. You've already sacrificed a fair bit by moving and you are in danger of sacrificing a great deal more once you have a child added into the equation. Are you ready to be totally financially dependent on this man for the next five years as an absolute minimum?

Sort out the practicals before you start a family as these things can get left on the back-burner only to make an unfortunate appearance at the most inopportune moment.

Do you mean 'wives' and their children? :)

I'm in a similar-ish scenario. I've been with DP 10 years, we own a house together, have a five-year-old son, and I'm his 'next of kin' in his life insurance, pension plans, etc.

However, I have sacrificed my career, and earning potential, to bring up our son, and if we split up, I could be shafted. Technically I've got half the house, but I don't suppose I'd be entitled to anything else.

A long time ago he said he didn't want to get married, for fairly trivial reasons, and it's got so irritating now that I don't want to marry someone who doesn't want to marry me, IYSWIM! But if I bring up the 'what if we split up' scenario, he comes over terribly defensive, like the OP's DP, accusing me of thinking badly of him, etc.

I'd like to answer that a genuinely nice guy would see why I wanted to get stuff sorted and in place, and that it's like insurance for the future, but fear a major sulk. Pathetic, I realise.

Personally, there is no way I'd be off the contraception in that situation. Before I came off the pill, DH and I sat down and worked out a budget for the next 5 years, factoring in my maternity leave and the cost of childcare afterwards, looking at the various options for us both to go part time and the impact that would have. Looking back, I maybe took it a bit far (considered what would happen if I had twins, if one of us lost our jobs, etc). We also upped our life insurance and critical illness.

There is no way I'd ttc without being happy with all those things. It's not about trust, it's about common sense, and making sure you are on the same page (e.g. can you still spend £100 on a haircut if you are not earning?). Best to get these things sorted in advance, IMO.

I also would be very wary of someone marrying someone who refused to discuss something so important in an mature way - or at all. Getting "defensive" is not good. He is making it a trust issue when it shouldn't be - as said above, it's about common sense.

Have you tried couching it in terms of "God forbid DH, but if you went under a bus, what would me and the kids do?"

Oh and definitely get back on the contraception.

They all say that.
But when the situation actually arises, it's a different ball game all together.
I was married - and we were married 15 years.
Doesn't mean he's paid a penny towards the house or his DD in the last 5 years though.
I've had to manage.
You need to tell him, absolutely, that you need some security and you won't be continuing with anything unless he can agree to that.
Time to get tough.
We see it (and live it) time and again on here.

Why would you choose to have a child in these circumstances?

The fact that he gets defensive says it all because anyone who would 'not leave you short' would be arranging all the legal stuff NOW to ensure everyone is covered in respect of splitting up/death etc. the fact that he isn't and doesn't even want to discuss it speaks volumes.

I would be getting back on the contraception ASAP if I was you.

you need to get back onto the pill or summat ASAP

OP, you sound incredibly naïve. If you want security for you and any child you might have, get married. There may be other forms of legal security out there, if you are against the idea of marriage, but you should get formal legal advice and sort it out formally.

Remember there is no such thing as a 'common law' wife.

All he's doing is trying to placate you. This doesn't sound like the sort of person you should be having a child with. Sort out your contraception and give yourself some breathing space.

I don't think the OP sounds naïve. Maybe a little 'cockeyed optimist' thinking marriage was just some outdated institution and maybe a little foolish to drop the contraception prematurely, but at least they've had the presence of mind to wake up to the reality enough to suspect they could be making a big mistake.

You could be pregnant in 2 week time.
The stats on first month conception are quite high - that's not scare mongering.

Why have you been the one to screw up your career?

So what's happened is:

You were happy to shack up while you were younger
Now you're ready for children you want to be married
You daren't tell him/can't convince him
You want legal/financial security but daren't mention it.

He's got everything he wants without making any commitment at all.
He's not offended that you think he'll let you down, he's offended that you think you can tie him down when you have nothing new to offer.

Well done.

Do not conceive with this man.

First, sit him down and explain to him that you want legal and financial security, and how you'd like him to go about providing it./sharing it with you.
Second, admit to him that now, marriage matters to you.

Depending on how he responds, either leave him/throw him out or start making legal, financial and wedding plans. When all those things are dealt with, then cut out the contraception.

Anything else is dishonest to yourself, disrespectful of your own needs and wishes and likely to bring you heartache.

And I should know. I've had plenty!

Good luck with it. Its easy for me to say, isn't it? You wouldn't listen if you knew what a mess I'm in...

Thanks so much for the comments ladies. Although I think maybe I've presented my boyfriend in an unduly negative light. You see marriage went against what we both believed in initially - its not a case of him not wanting to be tied down and me wanting commitment. I suspect, although I can't be sure, that if I wanted to get married he would agree. Its me who has been on this whole "free spirit/independent woman" mission....until I started looking at things and realising that security in a family means more than two individuals living together, it requires more practical elements to be put in place. Certainly, he is the more romantic of the two of us and his assuming we will always be together is probably a reflection of that (albeit naive) attitude. The reason we decided to cut the contraception is because I'm 33 and he's 34...I know its not old, but it took friends of ours years to conceive so (foolish perhaps I know) we thought we would just leave it to fate. I know its dumb but we thought it would more more 'spontaneous' that way...more sexy perhaps than hovering around with an ovulation calendar. Of course, 3 months in and I've been reading up on, well, everything involved in having a baby (FREAK OUT!!) including all the legal/guardianship/inheritance issues involved in not being married. Put it this way, my STRESS levels probably prevent me from getting pregnant at this point anyway (no, not really I know) because there is a tonne of information out there about motherhood, none of which presents it as anything but terrifying. It doesn't help that my career went belly-up, not helped at all by our living here, but in the end my job potential was so low anywhere that when he got a good job here we just went for it...better one of us had a decent job that neither. I have no way out of the current shitty minimum wage temp-work cycle that I'm on...nobody wants to hire me....literally ANYWHERE. I have spent the last 3 years covering maternity leaves in offices where the lucky so-and-so comes back and I'm unemployed again. When/if I get pregnant I'll be entitled to nothing...no job to return to, no point in paying for childcare for minimum wage job...Some "independent woman" I am!!/emo/te/11.gif

I don't think anybody's concerned because your partner is against marrying you.

It's more than dumb to try deliberately to have a baby when you don't have financial security for the baby or both its parents. But perhaps you'd rather be "sexy"?

If you aren't going to marry then you need to get something sorted legally as there is no such thing as 'common law' and your DH needs to recg

I see your point Vivacia, I realise my approach has been immature (which is precisely why I wrote this post!) but, trust me, after years of trying EVERYTHING to become "financially secure" there reaches a point when you just go, right, we love each other, we're not getting any younger, lets just do it. Of course we would both have liked to have owned our own house, had permanent, stable jobs, money in the bank, but that's not possible for everyone. Over the last 2 years I have done courses, applied for about 10 jobs a week, signed onto every recruitment agency in the country, done low-paid office work in the hope of securing something worthwhile. Clearly I am facing up to these issues already, otherwise I'd hardly be on mumsnet trying to get advice...

Oh stupid phone.

Recognise this. Don't give up everything, you'll be in a vulnerable position.

Of course we would both have liked to have owned our own house, had permanent, stable jobs, money in the bank, but that's not possible for everyone

Again, that's not the point anyone here is making. We're talking about the lack of financial communication between you two. It's a worry that under the current arrangement you define "fair and reasonable" as going halves and there's a refusal to discuss how this will change.

...how this will change when you have no income and you and the baby are financially dependent upon him.

And you know why we're worried? Because these pages are littered with posts from women who are financially abused, financially controlled or daily irritated by the financial disparity in their relationships.

I know! That's what I meant when I say I've been reading up on possible scenarios. I plan on addressing the communication issues immediately, but up until very recently I haven't been fully informed/up-to-date/realistic. In other words I had my head in the sand. It also wasn't until very recently that I realised I will never get the dream job that would support me through pregnancy and that I WILL be totally dependent on him. I suppose it wasn't something I thought was possible (I used to have good job prospects, but recession hit....long story). So, yes, I want to sort things out now. He's on nights this week so I won't see him but when I do we'll certainly be sitting down to some serious talking. Thank you all so much for the replies, I am really grateful for your comments and opinions.