How to know if he's just rude or abusive?

[Minimage]

I'm in need of some help/support/advice/shoulder to cry on, whatever is out there. I'm a 40 yr old woman with 2 beautiful teenagers. I've been with my man for 19 years and married for 12 this year. 80% of the time he is loving, caring and fun to be with. We've had the odd moment in the past where he's been difficult to live with because work was so bad, you know walking on egg shells in case he shouts about dinner not being ready or the kids leaving their "shit" lying around! However recently it's been getting more frequent. He explodes for the littlest thing, I'm on egg shells again. Tonight it was because our son shouted at him. Basically he wanted our son to move from the sofa but he wasn't quick enough. He was asked to move "move" being the request! Our son shouted I'm moving so he grabbed our son round the neck and then left the room pointing at me and shouting you need to get him to respect me! Unfortunately I'm mouthy so shouted back I can't make him. He said he might as well leave as we only want him for his money! No one ever wants to spend time with him! This was a reaction to something that happened at the weekend. (Bear with me my thoughts are all over the place) I booked a court at the local gym for the kids, he was asked if he was coming to watch and he said "only so I can laugh at you" to which my son replied why bother then! So he didn't and then sulked all evening, going to Bed early, stomping around the house!

Is he just rude? The kids avoid him and stay in their rooms. He complains about them not wanting to spend time with him but he calls our son a prick, a retard or a dick when he's annoyed. He doesn't talk about our daughter this way. When they do join me in the lounge to speak to me about anything he turns the TV up and tells us to be quiet. If the kids talk back to him or stand up for themselves it's my fault and it's my parenting failure. I also undermine him apparently by not agreeing with his tactics on discipline. I have found myself standing over our son to protect him because he's been rough and pushed him in an argument.

He expects the kids to wait on him. He very rarely helps in the house but when he does it has to be noted and praised. He always does the garden though. He works long hours in London and if I got a proper job (I work 18hrs so I can be there for the kids) I would know what that's like.

I'm really struggling to understand what's what. When we argue, which isn't often, it's a real shouting match but I forget what I want to say! I'm so rubbish in conflict. He will front me, push up against me and get in my face but he's never hit me, I don't feel like he would but he does hurt our son, he says he hardly touched him or he's being a woos when he complains. I've said "go on hit me" a few times now but he never has. I hate the look of hurt in my sons face. But he's nice 80% of the time! Am I mad?

Sorry there was a lot to get off my chest.

He's abusive and it'll be damaging your son and daughter.
:(

Horrible bullying arse, both rude and abusive. The 80% of ok behaviour is not enough. Ask your son if you're not sure. Phone Women's Aid and ask for advice.

forgot to say, if your children report this either to the police or their teacher or another adult then social services will be involved. Then you may find you have less choice in what happens.

Sorry if I sound harsh but 19 years of being with this 'man' has conditioned you into thinking his behaviour is acceptable. His behaviour is not acceptable.

What has stopped you from divorcing this man?. Fear, shame, embarrassment?.

Walking on eggshells (a phrase you use in your initial post more than once) is to my mind code for living in fear.

You have become conditioned to his abuse of you and your children are being badly harmed by this person as well. They are well and truly caught in this crossfire. You have to leave this man before he further damages you all.

What do you want to teach your children about relationships here?. What do you think they are learning from the two of you here?.

The only acceptable level of abuse within a relationship is NONE.

That is right, NONE.

He being okay a supposed 80% of the time (and I actually doubt that he is at all reasonable anywhere near 80% of the time) is not good enough.

Your son is watching and learning. Where do you think abusive men often learn their behaviour? Please act.

He's rude and abusive. Your kids have been growing up with this dickhead as a father setting a terrible example for relationships. Seriously, just get rid.

Please think carefully. There is more to life than money.
my father was like this, I bore the brunt of it.
It was like living with a time bomb and anything could have set him off.
My sister is now a bulimic anorexic with a heart murmer, I am frightened she will die at any time. She doesn't speak to our father at all.
I went completely off the rails the second i got out of that house, and became a self harmer for years. I am also now a total doormat with zero standing up for myself abilities.
Things would have been very very different had my mother left my father.

But I don't know how? These moments are so few that I lose sight of the bad things when it's good. I feel like it's just petty. I'm a caring person, I'm not stupid, I just thought he was being an arse. It never occurred to me that it could be abuse! Maybe I am stupid, who lets their kids live like this. He wouldn't understand why if I left!

Minimage,

What did you yourself learn about relationships when growing up?. Is this really what you envisaged for you and your children who have also borne the brunt of this abuse from him too?.

You can call Womens Aid on 0808 2000 247 and speak to them. That would be a start.

He would never understand because he thinks he is doing nothing wrong re you and your children in the first place. He likely thinks of himself too as both an upstanding and righteous individual. Do you not think that you and the children have all suffered more than enough?.

Abusive men are not abusive all the time - that's the pattern. They 'train' others the way someone might train a dog. It's control. He blows up precisely so that everyone tippy-toes around trying to keep him sweet and then he's nicely normal until he feels you're getting out of line and need a reminder. You are tempted to minimise it calling it a one-off or rationalise it that he's a bit stressed or having a bad day.... and that's how they trap you. You're always hoping for the wheel to turn and 'Nice DH' to reappear.

You're not stupid. Many people fall for the same trick. If you're a caring person you'll assume he's motivated by the same things you are and that's simply not the case with bullies. They are motivated by self and they don't care who gets hurt in the process.

Now that your eyes are open you've got roughly two choices i.e. confront, challenge, stand up to the bully ad let nothing go.... or reject, report the assault on your DS and tell the bully to get out.

It doesn't really matter whether he would understand why you left. Your kids would understand.

Grabbed your son round the neck for not moving off the sofa quickly enough? I don't need to read any further - you and your children would be better off without this fuckwit in your lives.

Are you ready to accept that you need to protect your poor children from this awful man? Mumsnet can advise about practicalities but only when you are ready.

Why does your son have to move off the sofa in the first place? Surely it is his sofa too?

Bloody hell OP - you really need to wake up and smell the proverbial coffee.

Cycle of abuse - google it. He has to be nice some of the time otherwise you wouldn't put up with the crap. 1% abuse is enough to leave - you are saying it is at least 20%. You need to get the hell away from him - otherwise your children will see this as a model for relationships both now and in their future. Plus you deserve so much better. Walking on eggshells - he doesn't do that around you ever does he?

The way to tell is to ask yourself, what would be your reaction if another person did this. Could you imagine the kids teachers being like this with you and the kids?

I'm sorry but I think you know he's abusive.

Good grief.
Your poor poor son.
Please protect him.
He is learning now about relationships and how men treat women.
He will continue the cycle unless you cut that cycle right now.

but he does hurt our son
This is all you need to understand.
He hurts your son!!!
He hurts your son!!!!

So what if he doesn't hit you!?
He does hurt your son. Why aren't protecting him from this?
Get your poor son away from his abusive, bullying father as soon as you possibly can.

Womens Aid can help you see through the fog of this nasty, vile man.

If a stranger in the street shouted at your son and hurt him the way your H does would you put up with it?
Would you be stepping in to protect him and taking him away from the situation?
Would you be reporting to the police?
Of course you would.
The fact that his is suffering this in his home, the place he is supposed to feel safe, is worse.
You need to open your eyes and see what is happening.

Op.....what's going on in your lived and specifically tge relationship between you and your husband recently. You said he hasnt always been this way, only moody in times of stress. So something is happening presently that is causing his behaviour.

" lives" ....I'm on phone.

Could be that the son has grown up to the point where the Alpha Male feels the atavistic need to keep the young pretender down. Maybe he doesn't knock the womenfolk around because he doesn't feel he has to, as he's got them cowed already. It's only the nearly-adult son who is seen as a threat. All very uncivilised and desperately unhealthy.

Your DH is into power and humiliation - he obviously feels you and your daughter are already controlled so he only has to threaten the two of you a bit - but your son represents a bigger threat to your DH as your son is rapidly becoming a man now - your DH's behaviour is triggered by seeing his son develop his own personality - this scares your husband so he is using classic male dominance (i.e violence) to control your son.

Your husband is choosing to do this, he isn't "a bit stressed", he is calculation every piece of violence and nasty put down remark.

Read Lundy Bancroft's "why doe she do that?" which explains why controlling and abusive men do this and how they do it.

Of course he is nice 80% of the time - those are times he doesn't feel threatened and want to put you all in your places - when you challenge him in any way he becomes nasty.

If things carry on like this your son will be forced to leave home to avoid your husband. You and your daughter will continue to live in fear.

Sorry - Lundy's book is "why does he do that? - Inside the minds of controlling and abusive men" - typo!

He sounds a prize prick.

Why would your children want to spend time with him? Can't he see that?

I'm horrified that you have to ask. Your poor children.

Get out NOW because your son WILL turn out the same.