who is being unreasonable here, Me or the MIL?

[twolittleboysonetiredmum]

Right, I'm after your wise opinions as sitting here feeling like I've done something awful and actually, maybe I haven't. Long story short, we don't have a close relationship with my MIL but is civil. we see her for a few hours every month or so, mainly for kids benefit.
Was ds2 birthday yesterday, she left early to do something else so I said we'd save her some cake, she could come round this week some time. She wanted to come round at half six last night, we asked her not to as it's their bedtime (1 and 2.5 yrs old) and asked if should come tonight or tomorrow after their tea, before bed, at half five ish. She didn't reply and then text this morning saying she was coming at half six tonight. Argh! I said this was fine, but that she'd have to just grab her things (bag etc she'd left with us) as we'd be busy doing bedtime. I wasn't rude in any way, and we had made it clear that this time was no good the day before. She has got herself in a tizz and is essentially claiming I am blocking her from seeing her family. I have texted her again, in response to a phonecall saying that I was making a fuss, that she was trying to see them and she wanted to 'talk'. My text, politely, said that I couldn't talk as have both children on my own, that I didn't think a chat was necessary as she was welcome here whenever. Just that I can't guarantee whether the kids or us would be available to see her if she came then. Another rude response saying she would just come and get bag then. I have since texted and invited her round for a brew this pm instead, which she's ignoring.
Arg. Having typed this down I realise how petty this all is but I honestly can't see how I've offended her. I think she's been trying to fall out with me for a while and I think I've just taken her bait. I know she wants more of a relationship with kids and have never, ever blocked her. But she likes to.imply I am occasionally and I feel like this is an extension of that issue. Or having read my boring post, should I have handled this differently?

I don't like texts for this kind of thing - impersonal and easily misinterpreted - so I can see why she wants to talk to you. Would it really have been so terrible to have granny around at bed/bath time? I can't quite work out why having both children on your own means you can't have a conversation either. Yes, I think she's being a little too persistent but I also think you could relax your schedule and not need formal appointments quite so much as well. Yes, it's petty but you're not going to resolve it either via text or avoiding her.

What does your H think of his mother's behaviour?. What sort of parent was she to your DH?. Is he the sort to say, "well you know what she is like" ie he acting out of self preservation and want of a quiet life. I would let him deal with her now. Both of you regardless need to present a united front with regards to his mother.

Putting this incident aside what do you yourself think of his mother?. Is she generally a nice person to be around?. I ask this as if she cannot be asked to behave decently with you, she could well transfer that attitude to your children and start using them to get back at you. You write anyway that they see her for a few hours each month mainly for their benefit. That is not a good reason in itself to see such a person.

Boundaries are needed here re this lady and must be maintained; your boundaries re her are far too low currently and she is basically ignoring your requests not to visit at 6.30. Such people are disordered in their thinking and want everything their own way so they strop when that does not happen. This is all really about power and control.

I agree about texts, and I would have happily talked to her if she hadn't said we needed to 'talk'. She meant a fully focused conversation about serious things, which I can't manage with my two at the moment. But maybe she wouldn't hehe appreciated that so that's my bad really.
As for having her here at bedtime etc, she isn't that sort of granny really. She winds them up then gets cross when they meltdown. She also expects waiting on and full conversation, rather than getting on with something like bedtime, so it would just be an hour later bedtime. Which with two little tired kids, is just awful. She doesn't work so has a lot more flexibility on time so rather than us experiencing an awful bedtime, surely asking her to come a different time is justifiable? Maybe not. This is what I mean, I'm thinking I probably have been crap but then there are some things I think she could be more flexible with.

My Dh take the approach of keeping her at arms length as otherwise she gets like this with him. Normally I make him do the dealing with her, but he's not got a phone at the moment. I'm still on mat leave too so if she wants to see kids outside of the,weekend she has to contact me.
She wasn't a hands on or caring mum really, she's quite self centred and stressful. Dh has said in the past to just not engage with her and to let it go over my head, when we've ended up in a,mess like this. It's so opposite to how I deal with things though, that I can't sometimes and then get all stressed myself! Argh!

Stop texting and invite her round to help with bath time/read a bed time story. Or put the kids to bed a little later for just one night. The world won't come to an end.
YABU.

And we are a united front luckily,unfortunately he had a very manipulative partner before me who stopped him seeing anyone. I think MIL likes to think I am doing this too, and I am honestly not. We are close with my family and other members of his, it's just her really.

I'd have played it this way.... Definitely I'd have asked her to come at a different time when she could have full attention but, if she insisted on bed-time, made it clear that we'll be winding down, doing quiet things and that she'll have to make herself a drink and wait downstairs until I'm done settling them. That way you give her the choice but also set up realistic expectations.

Think your DH is right here; after all he has had a lifetime of dealing with his mother unlike your good self. Also you likely come from a reasonable family unit yourself so always want to appear nice and kind when it comes to the relatives like his mother. Unfortunately not all such relatives are at all nice like yours are, let alone reasonable, and your MIL has and will take you for a ride over this. You are really dealing with someone who is completely unreasonable here. "Normal" rules therefore of dealing with familial relations do not apply.

Didn't think she was either a kind or caring mother; if she was that sort of mother to your DH do you really think it is a good idea for your own children to be seeing her at all given her own recent behaviours towards you?. Societal convention is not enough and they will not at all benefit from seeing their mother get so disrespected by their nan. Not all grandparents are kind and loving and your MIL certainly is not from what you write of her.

If she cannot or will not behave decently around you then she gets to see none of you. End of.

From what you've said, it's your MIL who's completely in the wrong. You said that that time was not a good time for you, and gave a good reason, and she completely ignored you and decided to do things her own way anyway, and now she's got the hump with you because.... Because why exactly? Because she's entitled and rude.

Blocking her from seeing her DGC indeed! Utter manipulative bollocks. And you say now she doesn't work so it's not even the pressure of her own work schedule.

You in the other hand have been trying to be pleasant and accommodating, you try to facilitate her relationship with the DC, you've invited her over for a brew only to be ignored...

How much more effort do you want to make to accommodate someone who doesn't reciprocate? It really doesn't look to me like you haven't handled it properly, it looks like you're dealing with someone essentially unreasonable. I think that you could be right that she's spoiling for a fight.

I would think about Attila's questions about your DH and his relationship with her, and where he is on all this. Are you on the same page regarding her inconsiderate behaviour? You definitely need to stop blaming yourself in any way, and see that she is the one who is making things difficult here.

X post. Your DH has the right idea, sounds like you need to take a leaf out of his book. You sound like a reasonable person and perhaps you think everyone else is also reasonable, deep down, but some people just aren't. And you need to protect yourself (and long term, your DC too) from people like that.

Why not wait until this specific occasion has blown over, then invite her for a cup of tea and explain to her that you are in no way trying to cut her off from the kids, but she needs to understand that the children have a routine that needs to be worked around. Coming at bath time or bed time is not an option, because the kids will get excited and then not sleep, which is fine for her since she gets to go home afterwards, but not so great for you guys being stuck with kids that won't settle.

Be clear what the awkward times are, and then re-iterate that at other times, providing you and your partner don't have some other pre made commitment to honour, she is welcome. You could perhaps subtly point out that these things are give and take. Something like "And obviously I know that you aren't the sort of selfish person that would only ever want to see the kids on your terms with no care of whether it would cause us difficulties".

You are not being unreasonable. I think it's perfectly OK to say that six thirty is too late if that's bedtime. It's not really workable to say that she could do bedtime of she's not that sort of person. My parents are great grandparents but even they tend to wind my little ones up when it's obvious to me that they are tired and need quiet time or help to settle to sleep. Grandparents seem to see grandkids as toys sometimes whereas we as parents are thinking about the child's daily needs because that's our job.

I think just keep reinforcing your boundaries. You're not doing anything wrong.

Sounds like you handled it just fine.

follow your DH lead here and don't cave.

tell her that it won't be possible to have visits at bedtime as it's too disruptive. FULL STOP.

If she pushes it, repeat and say that she is welcome to come at other times by agreement, but NOT at 6.30pm.

She is pushing this deliberately to engineer a scene. She wants you to drop everything to prove her importance. Well bugger that, she's not the one that gets left picking up the pieces after the kids have been wound up, nor the person left dealing with exhausted children the next day. therefore, the person who is charged with these onerous tasks does get to chose when and where they agree to this.

Remain calm and cool, repeat broken record stylee and remember that NO is a complete sentence.

Agree, do what your DH says / says he would do. It's his issue really. If your mum was hassling him you wouldn't expect him to put up with it.

I hate old ladies like that. Have some sodding dignity!

Agree with the others. Your account of texts exchanged & messages left does sound a bit petty - inevitably -but it also sounds like your MIL was actively trying to be offended.

I've lost count of the number of times I've read on MN of MILs constructing a narrative in which DIL is separating them from their son & GC. Frequently it sounds like a total cop-out & a way to avoid confronting problems in one's own family - ie. rather than looking to why your own son isn't falling over himself to stay in contact, you blame DIL.

Obviously it is complicated in this case if your MIL genuinely did experience this with DH's previous partner. So I guess you might want to cut her some slack generally on that basis.

It is perfectly reasonable to ask a person to come at a time that is NOT the children's bedtime. Any caring relative would be understanding.

If she is huffy over this then it's her ego that's getting in the way!

If you want to build bridges then do as the others suggest- once this is all over, ask her round for a coffee etc when it suits YOU and your DCs, and show her there are no hard feelings.

How old is she? Does she work? Is she bored and trying to put some excitement- even if it's by being a bitch- into her life?

Is it really such a big deal to have Granny pop round for half an hour even if it is bedtime? It seems to be an incredibly unfriendly way to behave towards family. I get that bedtime routines are important and it would perhaps have been a stressful evening, but I bet you'd have totally forgotten that little extra stress a week later. But taking this option now gives you the opportunity for an enduring family feud.

It's only a feud if the gran makes it one. Any reasonable person would say 'of course- I'd forgotten how routines are important and extra excitement at the end of the day can be a recipe for children awake so much longer.'

The DCs are very young- why would an adult want to upset a routine when they presumably can come at other times?

It's the gran who pushed this- she was told 5.30 was too late so now she suggests an even later time!

Thick or just controlling I wonder...

I don't think you are being unreasonable - you've asked her to avoid a particular time and she is insisting. You've even said it is OK for her to come at that time but that you'll be busy doing other things. I don't really understand why you should be obliged to switch your routine around without a good reason. It would be different if she could only ever come at that time.

Honestly, if it were me, I would leave it all to my DH to sort out. But, if not, then I would probably send her a message to say that she is welcome and you like to see her and for her to see the kids, but not at that particular time. That way she can't keep pushing the idea that you are cutting her off. Then don't indulge in any more drama and if anyone else in the family mentions it you can just say you have told her she is always welcome as long as it isn't at bedtime.

Why on earth would the OP want anyone there at bedtime? She has two small children in a really good routine; her MIL would be neither use nor ornament and would wind up the children and spoil the evening for the OP.

Her MIL doesn't work and has all the time in the world; she's only coming for bag and her cake, ffs!

Well I think the OP is being a bit uptight, I'm clearly in the minority so I'll leave you all to have a good whinge about how bedtime routines are more precious than being nice to people in your extended family

If MIL does have other commitments which you don't know about (paid employment not being the only thing people might have on during the day), she could explain why she needs to come at that time and perhaps be open for negotiation, rather than simply huffing because you aren't available when it suits her. I'm all for respecting mothers - being one and all - but that doesn't mean they get to dictate their adult children's household routines.

My mum has been here at bedtime only once but she helped when I asked then stayed downstairs quietly. She is very much a pitch in type of gran - she's often away weeding in the garden/doing dishes/changing nappy etc whereas mil is absolutely lovely but would never touch a nappy or milk. She would never come at bedtime.

I've had friends/family to stay overnight and for tea but I've made it clear that at 7pm - baby bath time starts and that's it til morning. No noise, no cuddles, just routine. Everyone has respected that. If you say it up front which you have then there's really nothing she can quibble with (unless they help doing quiet story etc but she doesn't sound the type).

I suppose the equivalent would be wanting to visit a friend at 11pm when they go to bed at 9pm because they work an early shift.

My own mum has tried the old 'oh it doesn't matter about routine every day, it's not really fair on anyone, you haven't got to lay down the law! Surely they can do what they want sometimes, have a bit of fun? no need to etc etc etc'.

I don't know what it is with that generation they are at once so conservative but also so slack. I.e. 'Oh it doesn't matter if she has a huge toffee apple at bedtime -- all just fun with granny!'

Sorry for the massive projection, OP!

you've got to allow her to be upset when you put down boundaries. be polite, be civil, be kind and be firm, and if that upsets her, then that is her issue.

stay calm, you've done nothing wrong. let her have all her emotions and when you see her again, gently reassure her that she is welcome to come by but that you have to continue with the children's usual routine.

no wheedling, no apologising, no cajoling. you are both adults and her throwing strops should not be encouraged by you, intentionally or otherwise.