who is being unreasonable here, Me or the MIL?

[twolittleboysonetiredmum]

Right, I'm after your wise opinions as sitting here feeling like I've done something awful and actually, maybe I haven't. Long story short, we don't have a close relationship with my MIL but is civil. we see her for a few hours every month or so, mainly for kids benefit.
Was ds2 birthday yesterday, she left early to do something else so I said we'd save her some cake, she could come round this week some time. She wanted to come round at half six last night, we asked her not to as it's their bedtime (1 and 2.5 yrs old) and asked if should come tonight or tomorrow after their tea, before bed, at half five ish. She didn't reply and then text this morning saying she was coming at half six tonight. Argh! I said this was fine, but that she'd have to just grab her things (bag etc she'd left with us) as we'd be busy doing bedtime. I wasn't rude in any way, and we had made it clear that this time was no good the day before. She has got herself in a tizz and is essentially claiming I am blocking her from seeing her family. I have texted her again, in response to a phonecall saying that I was making a fuss, that she was trying to see them and she wanted to 'talk'. My text, politely, said that I couldn't talk as have both children on my own, that I didn't think a chat was necessary as she was welcome here whenever. Just that I can't guarantee whether the kids or us would be available to see her if she came then. Another rude response saying she would just come and get bag then. I have since texted and invited her round for a brew this pm instead, which she's ignoring.
Arg. Having typed this down I realise how petty this all is but I honestly can't see how I've offended her. I think she's been trying to fall out with me for a while and I think I've just taken her bait. I know she wants more of a relationship with kids and have never, ever blocked her. But she likes to.imply I am occasionally and I feel like this is an extension of that issue. Or having read my boring post, should I have handled this differently?

Well I think the OP is being a bit uptight, I'm clearly in the minority so I'll leave you all to have a good whinge about how bedtime routines are more precious than being nice to people in your extended family

The thing is that the MIL can "be nice" too, can't she? What's nice about insisting on calling round at an inconvenient time? If the OP is on ML she's likely to be knackered - why would she then want her children too excited to go to bed?

The MIL/DIL relationship is just that - a relationship; both should be kind, not just the DIL.

Might have missed something as I skim read the thread but why couldn't your mil come and help with bath/bed? If you're in your own then surely the extra hands would be a blessing??

There is exactly the same wrong with my generation ( I am in my seventies) as your generation hashtag. Your generation is going in for fads regarding child rearing, that may well prove in a few years,to be as daft as the idea that the earth is flat. I hope you make a good GPINL and Grannie to the myriad of potential step grandchildren and grandchildren you could have, because it is not easy to get right. First of all I am no means wholly in agreement with the MIL in this case, she needs to listen. As a GP and ESPECIALLY a GPIL you have to do what the parents want you to do, not what YOU think is best otherwise you are asking for trouble. However, if you were looking for a surgeon to operate on you, you would expect some one to be experienced and trained wouldn't you? But when it comes your DM or MIL, who have successfully brought up children, their experience counts for zilch, funny that! I think this OP is in a situation where her reluctance to be straightforward with her MIL, ie telling her that the children need to be getting ready for bed NOW and She wants them to adhere to a bedtime routine, has brought about this situation. ( who hasn't had difficulties being honest with a MIL, because she is your MIL ? ) As she has not been able to tell her MIL whats what in a straight forward manner, it has led to a build up of resentment, and now this situation. it is a tricky relationship to get right between a DIL, and MIL. However the OP really holds all the cards. Please try and be straightforward and assertive with the MIL and also kind. Being prescriptive about the times that she can visit you does not point to a easy going happy go lucky relationship. You make a strict time appointment with a double glazing salesman don't you ? not a woman who is the DM of your husband, part of your family and the grandmother of your children. You say she hardly comes much ( doesn't she feel welcome ? ) and has already experienced a previous nightmare DIL, she may be living in fear of it happening again. Texts are a rubbish way of communicating anyway and lead to all sorts of misunderstandings. You have a boy OP so at some point you will be a MIl to a DIL. I wish you luck because you will need it. I have three and I am very very careful about what I say and do.

Sorry I meant Tachehag

I think people who are asked not to come round at a specific time and then announce they're coming anyway, are very rude, so YANBU.

I see what you mean holeinmyheart. I expect it is difficult - no offence meant!

Yanbu. She is bu. Total selfish attention seeker. Stand firm and tell her where to get off.

Mil is bu

YANBU she doesn't work and has all day to see them so why insist she comes at bedtime when 24hrs before you said no this is DCs bedtime. My ex mil wouldn't dream of going on like this if i said sorry not a good time.

she sounds like shes spoiling for a fight to me, ignore her and tell OH to sort her out.

But your analogy of the surgeon implies the surgeon is a good one!

Not every MIL brings up her own children properly. Her own son says she wasn't a caring mother and he deliberately keeps her at arms' length. Why, then, should her experience matter?

I think we should all be careful when we are MILs not to cause offence or take offence, but really, all the OP wants is for her MIL to come at a different time so that the children can go to bed as usual. She's not asking for much, surely?

holeinmyheart I hear you, honestly I do but I'm with the OP on this one. My children are 26months and 9 months and they are a nightmare and very upset if they go to bed to late. Funnily enough I have VIVID recollections of my brother being 'silly as he's overtired' and my Mum getting antsy as he wasn't in bed yet. She has completely forgotten about it! Or so she claims.

I am amongst the last of my friends to have had Cherenkov and the only piece of advice I now give to new parents is, don't accept parenting advice on real tinies from anyone whose youngest child is older than two, they just don't remember what it was like as if we did, we'd go a bit mad.

I agree with PP OP. Follow your DH's lead and just don't engage.

Who or what is Cherenkov!! Children, obviously

hole
You can't use the analogy of a good surgeon and a good grandparent. One is a professional who is chosen for their expertise, one is a blood relative over whom one has no choice! You can choose your friends but not your relatives- remember? :)

Grandparents are not experts and may have made a real hash of bringing up their own children.

I don't think you can say that sticking to a bedtime routine is a fad or fashion either- if that is what you meant? Maybe what you did mean is that there are fads and fashions around parenting but a grandparent has lived through many so may be wiser. Note: may be- not all are!

I think the whole grandparent scenario should be taken out of this - look at it as if someone wants to visit at a time that doesn't suit the family. If they insist and say they will come anyway- what does that say about them?

Thank you for all your opinions, I appreciate all of them. I do recognise that I am being slightly precious, they can go to bed later, but I'd rather they didn't. If it had been my mother, I'd have told her to bog off straight awa and she'd have accepted that and we'd have made a new time. I do have to be more careful in my dealings with MIL which I hate, but try to as she takes offence very easily. I wish we could be more open with her, but I've tried and have been accused of being confrontational or deliberately mis interpreted. I do take your point hole, and I hope that my relationship with any future daughter in laws is way better than this one. I did set out with great intentions to be a good daughter in law, but it's hard and she doesn't make it easy either. She's very routined herself, and only wants to come at a time that fits into her schedule, regardless of ours. She has been like this since I've known her, and has a history of coming around in the evening, uninvited, whilst I've been dealing with a refluxey newborn, and got annoyed as no one has asked her about her recent holiday. So I'm defensive about her coming round when it doesn't fit with us, perhaps too much so. Essentially I think I'm overly defensive and she's picking for a fight, not a great combination.
My DH thinks I'm in the right this time, and also agrees shes trying to fall out with me. We suspect so she an justify her poor relationship with the kids, rather than blame herself. It's a sad situation, but I'm passed caring when she gets like she has today. I do wish things were easier and more natural between us, but my SIL finds her as difficult, so I suspect it's more her than me a lot of the time.
I think as well, my own parents are hard work. I love them and we have a great relationship but they come with their own issues. I don't want to deal with another parent! Should I have to? Is that part of my responsibility as a daughter in law? (genuinely asking as I'm curious)
For now, I'm not going to deal with her and have handed it all back to the husband. Which means we won't see her for A few months as he's rubbish!

Sorry playitcool, just saw your bit. No, she's not a helpful sort sadly. She expects a brew and at least thirty minutes of conversation, generally about her. Whilst the kids go nuts around her.

Well Middlings, I remember what bringing up 5 DC was like and also a lot of GP and GPIL are now looking after GC. You only have to have a look around during the school holidays to see some poor older woman with two or sometimes more children, some in pushchairs, to realise that the care by GParents is widespread. Two out of three of my friends are doing the lions share of the childcare of their G Children. So to say that you would only accept the advice of people who only had children under two I think is a bit short sighted. Anyway it is not rocket Science. There is the internet and old people my age can read. I also had to live with one of my DIL's recently who had bad PND. I had to do the night feeds and wash, cook, clean and look after my DDIL and the baby. I did it willingly. I think MIL get a bad deal on MNet. More often than not if they are The PIL. I am not saying that they are all well behaved by any means and I know the relationship is difficult. Everyone has to try harder at it, because it is so difficult. Two women loving the same man. Mmm difficult. Anyway back to the OP. Is it your responsibility to get on with your MIL.? Well mine tried to prevent me marrying my DH. If I had asked MNetters then for advice they would have said go NC, but as it was over 40 years ago and my husband refused to back me up by stonewalling,my answer was to marry her son and be happy,which I have done. I ended up not having a great deal of contact with her but I suppose I felt it was my responsibility to be nice to her when I saw her, despite the barbs and mean comments. My husband loves her and I love him and I did not want to make him unhappy by being mean about his DM. Over the years I came to realise that she had a lot of issues and eventually let everything she said go over my head. Now she is very ill and pathetic and so I feel sorry for her. I have tried to talk to her in the past but she just hasn't got any insight into her behaviour. Sounds like your MIL Twolittle. She isn't a bad person by any means. I have had counselling which has helped me a great deal. Counselling gave me the tools to defend myself. Perhaps all MIL's should have counselling.

My kids gps are not poor old ladies though. They had both me and him as teens so were both very young GPS, they all still work full time but my ex mil still takes my dc through choice as she loves having them, no one asks her to she just likes having them. I would hate to have a mil who flips at the slightest thing to cause trouble which is what this mil seems to be doing. She had a day to come and see the kids but asks to go at 6.30pm, op explains its bedtime so too late tonight but call round tomorrow, tomorrow comes and she again says she will be round at 6.30pm and is again told its dcs bedtime but now shes being a drama queen. I bet if you said oh ok sorry i didnt realise you were upset and missing them, no problem i will drop them off at 11am for a few hours she would be busy. I bet its all on her terms with no give or take. Well thats what it sounds like to me anyway

middlings cherenkov sounds great

twolittleboys your MIL sounds like she is being deliberately "obtuse" or maybe she really didn't think it through? As others have said, having been told 6.30 pm was too late, why would she then ask to come at the same time the next day? With no acknowledgement of the repetition of the same request or explanation as to why this is the only time she can come .

She also left your ds2's party to do something else which seems a bit odd as she must have known about the party quite far in advance?

Another point that I often think about when the topic of little kid's bed times comes up, is that it isn't nice for the kids themselves to get overtired. Why would a family member want to do something that's going to make their darling grandchild feel overtired, irritable etc, they really should look at it from that perspective.

I do think taking offence maybe comes with the MIL territory? When ds1 was born (12 years ago already!!!) my MIL stayed for about 10 days from when he was about 2 days old. At the end of her 10 days she was getting ready to go home as one of her other sons was coming to get her. She then told me that she could stay longer if I wanted. I said that I had really appreciated her help but that I wanted to see if I could manage on my own as it were (obviously h would still be around). Anyway, she was very upset about this (she didn't tell me, she told h) which in turn made me very upset. It seemed that at a time when I was vulnerable, I was having to deal with someone else's hurt over a question which I assumed they had wanted an honest answer to? With hindsight I would have lied and said it was up to her. What confused me was the fact that she was independently making plans to leave of her own volition so I assumed this was what she wanted . To me it seemed that 10 days was fine more than enough (she lives 2 hours away) !!

It's only a feud if the gran makes it one.

^This.

And yes, I'm a granny.

OP, you're the one needing to get two LOs to bed.

So you know what, you do then when & how it suits you.

Does she live miles away & is rarely seen such that a break in routine should/could be considered?

No?

Would she be helpful at bedtime?

No?

sounds as if she is spoiling for a fight.

holeinmyheart I hope it doesn't sound like I'm undermining the contribution you and others make to your family or the benefit of your experience. Really, I'm not. You sound like a fabulous support to them and they are undoubtedly really lucky to have you. I completely understand that so many grandparents play a pivotal role in childcare - my own mother went back to work when I was 7 weeks old and my DGM (her MIL) looked after me during the day until I was 18 months once she'd got over the shock that my parents had booked me into a nursery. She died, horribly, of bastard cancer 19 years ago next week and I still miss her every day. My DM tells a very funny story of pitching up one morning with a pot of yoghurt (new fangled notion at the time) and being greeted by a VERY cats bum mouth when it was suggested as an appropriate morning snack. To her credit, my DGM gave it to me and expressed shock that I'd enjoyed it!

What I mean by my "Don't accept advice" thing (which I do half flippantly) is that imhe, those with older children have, to an extent, forgotten what it's like to be IN it. My own DM and DMIL are both great while being opposite ends of a parenting spectrum and are very supportive but I find, in some cases (and bedtime routine in my mother's case is a very pertinent example) there is an unwillingness/reluctance/resistance to accept that actually, DH and I do know what is right for our family and sometimes, we will say "actually, with the greatest of respect, this is the way it's going to work" and if they don't like it, I really don't care! That's where I support the OP. Her MIL should be able to listen to how things work for their family, and be able to respect that.

I hope your DIL is better - awful horrible thing PND.

OP, great that DH is onside. Hope this one blows over!