is it me?

[Modster2k]

I don't know if i am making a mountain out of a molehill bit i would really like your feedback please. My dh is a very chilled out man, usually lovely. But whenever we have arow over something pointless he shuts up the walls then shouts me down, then storms off. I know yhat can be normal bloke behaviour and as much as it's frustrating then fine but..I am quite highly strung, always have been, always will be. I don't like going to bed on a row so probably go on too much once he has decided he doesn't want to listen to any mote. Anyhoo, last night we had a row about shelving: bare witb me - it turned into a proper argument, iwas being v argumental too but when went into bed he flinched, and i thought he was going to hit me. I asked him if that was he was going to do and said "i will if you don't shut up". I didn't know what to think but asked him if he could go to sleep in a different room as I didn't want to be near him after saying that. He refused so i slept in the front rom (that bit doesn't byw). My Ds dad was violent and he told me I drove him to it, and now my new h is saying that I made him get to that brink too. Dh also reckons that as my previous hurt me because i wouldn't shit up it's all mu own fault. Is he right? Because I thougbt he wasn't and now i am starting to doubt myself
Sorry for the typos, my screen is cracked (my own doing) and I can't always see the letters properly!!

I hope you don't feel I was saying you were like her. That was just an example of how highly strung etc can affect things. It seemed relevant at the time.

As you say, all couples argue. Taking out his threats of violence, would you say this is a normal amount? Is the rest of the relationship sweet enough to be worth the sour?

However, the threats of violence change all that.

Does he go on his phone/shut down as a coping mechanism to deal with the way you argue? Was that always his response? You wanting to talk things through is perfectly rational. What other way is there to solve issues?!

I think the key to zzzzz's post is the first sentence. I suspect the last one is some kind of bizarre auto-correct/typo - I don't believe zzzzzz is generally a victim-blamer afair.
Hopefully she'll come back and clarify.

Thanks for explaining Honeybadger

I was getting a bit worried there McBear! Usually we get on brilliantly and no, I wouldn't say we rowed more than most couples. I think the way he goes is probably his way of dealing with most things but it happens at the very beginning of an argument and it's v hard to talk to him at all when he is like that. When I said I am highly strung, i didn't mean that i wanted everything my own way, would kick off at the littlest thing or needed undivided attention. I meant that I take things to heart quite easily and things do genuinely upset me more than they should so I feel this need to sort it out because I actually hate rowing.

mcbear you can't take out the 'threats of violence'. that's pretty central along with the blaming her for being abused in the past.

there's no sweet that makes the threat of violence and abuse worth it.

modster - if he does it right at the beginning then you are silenced right away. if he does it instantly he is refusing to hear anything you say.

be interesting to know if this is only when something turns into an actual argument or anytime you express a different opinion to him or a need or feeling that he doesn't like. if it's the latter then it's not a conflict issue but a control technique and a refusal to engage with you as a whole other person.

be aware that some people will deliberately choose someone they know has put up with an abusive relationship in the past.

he shuts up the walls then shouts me down
then storms off
i thought he was going to hit me
"i will if you don't shut up"
He refused so i slept in the front room
now my new h is saying that I made him get to that brink too
it is impossible to try and sort things out with him
closes his eyes or gets out his phone and starts playing on that
I spoke to him last night and he can't seem to see that
he refuses to discuss anything
Dh also reckons that as my previous hurt me because i wouldn't shit up it's all mu own fault

Is he right?
No he most certainly is not.
You have gone from one abusive relationship straight into another.
He is now showing you his true colours, who he is.

Please contact Womens Aid and sign up for the Freedom Programme if you have not already done it.
You can complete it online or attend session.

There are so may red flags here and you need to start to recognise them.

As your parents put down, and your 1st husband and now your 2nd, you really need to understand about red flags and abuse. Womens Aid can help you.

Yes I agree but I suppose I'm clutching at straws here.

This is the first time he's said anything like this isn't it? Some things are said in anger to get to us. Could it be that?

My DDs DF once told me he didn't love me anymore. He was only with me for DD. At the time it was possible to forgive and forget. It was clear he didn't mean it. Not similar to a threat of violence but potentially relevant?

would you tell someone who'd been through a traumatic abusive relationship that it was their fault and you too would hit them if they didn't shut up mcbear? even in anger? if not, why not? what would have to be different about you as a person for you to be able to or want to say that?

No I'm 99.9 per cent sure I wouldn't but sometimes in anger we say things we don't mean.

If OP can get him to talk she will find out if so and where to go from there. If it was a genuine threat and something he genuinely believed, then there is no forgiveness to be had.

why should the OP 'get him' to talk. if it was something said in anger and totally out of character he would be begging her forgiveness and mortified at himself today. i think you may need to examine why you're feeling the need to 'clutch at straws' mcbear. have you put up with abusive behaviour yourself before?

OP, have other people in your life (apart from your previous abusive partner) told you that you talk too much or make too many demands? I mean, have you heard this from work colleagues, female friends, siblings, etc? It's certainly true that some individuals do nag and pester and won't shut up, and this makes them infuriating but decent people do not hit them over it. They just do their best to reduce contact with the mouth individual.

Or do you carry on talking because your H refuses to listen to you at all, and goes into 'ignore' mode any time you disagree with him or make a reasonable request eg that he put his dirty clothes in the laundry basket, or do the washing up when it's his turn? There are some abusive men who quite deliberately wind up their partners by ignoring them or mocking them until the woman lashes out, at least verbally - and the man can then enjoy portraying himself as the victim and giving himself permission to punish her.

Hi guys, don't want to read and run. Just got to work so I will post later today when I can get away with it. Thanks again for all your advice, it has got me thinking about a lot of things x

yes not sure if i expressed it clearly but my point was the same as SGB's - there can be shut down as a reaction to on and on and on conflict or their can be shut down as a silencing and crazymaking technique that refuses to allow you a separate self and needs and opinions.

Honeybadger is correct. People do need different ways to deal with conflict. Many people need to shut down and go into their caves for a while and they are best left alone until they are ready to talk again. To try and make them talk before they are ready just causes the argument to escalate and get nasty on both sides. It can be hard when you are the sort of person who wants to sort it out immediately, to have to wait it out, but its best to do just that. Usually the person who has gone away will then come back with a completely different attitude and be more than willing to discuss and reconnect.

TheHoneyBadger He pretty much just does this when there is an actual argument, but he does get moody if I get upset by his actions which sometimes can be quite thoughtless but he is perfectly fine with different opinions (unless we are arguing).

SolidGoldBrass No, no one else has ever said that, I have had a few long-term relationships over the years (God, I am getting old!) and only the previous ex and h have ever said this to me. I get on well with everyone I know at work, within family, and socially. The only time I have "gone at him" is when we have argued and he shuts down at the start with no sign that he is even listening to my point of view. I try hard to be fair and tell him my take on things and ask him to tell me his but he refuses. He is fine with every other aspect of our lives, does a lot (ok most) of the cooking, is very house-proud, a brilliant sd and fair in everything else except when we disagree.

I told him last night that I accept that I can be as much to blame when we argue but the fact is, I don't shout and threaten like he did that night, he still kept on referring back to the bloody shelves and talking about that initial discussion which isn't really a big deal (I mean come on, it's shelves) as it wasn't that bicker between us that has upset me, it is the way he handled it all afterwards. I think he thought if he focussed (sp?) on that original silly row and not the way he handled it then it's easier for him to dismiss what he said - that isn't what I think btw, I just think that's what he was doing, maybe without realising.

I have also found that many people treat their OH disrespectfully. If we talked to our OH like we talk to our best friends then maybe arguments wouldn't happen. We tend to have more respectfully discussions with our friends but vent and say terrible things to our OH.

Sorry, that should have read "gone on at him"...I have never "gone at him"!!

Doitforme I think you are right about walking away btw. I think when he literally will not have any sort of discussion from the very beginning it is quite hard to deal with but I will try to do this if this happens again.
I am in no way condoning what he said and how he still can't see that what he did was wrong. After cracked ribs, a broken finger, fucked up throat from the ex p I will no longer put up with any form of threat/violence and I told him last night that if he ever says that again I will leave. It's just how he blamed me that got me really thinking last night if I am an awful person and was I being unreasonable by being shocked by his choice of words.
Hopefully, by the time we both get home from work he might have had a chance to think about what was said, truthfully apologise and promise - and mean- never to do that again and we can just put it behind us this time
I really do appreciate Mumsnet's forums, I don't always post very much and although there can be hurtful comments on some discussions I do actually think about the different points of view on here. Thanks.

i don't think you should hold your breath for him doing that when he gets home from work modster.

you also better be ready to see that ultimatum through or you will be laying out the red carpet to him to notch it up. i'm sorry but he's telling you who he is and what he thinks of you.

I think that's extreme honey badger.

He may well apologise after a days thought.

He knows the ultimatum stands, and so do I. If he doesn't apologize tonight or accept that what happened was wrong and can never happen again I will have to have a good long think this weekend and maybe take my ds to the 'rents for some time apart...plus they have a great garden!!

yeah, you haven't answered why you're so keen to excuse the behaviour of a man threatening violence to a woman and blaming her for extensive injuries and trauma sustained from a previous relationship.

i find your position 'extreme' personally.

What hellsbells and sgb said. It's absolutely not acceptable. It wasn't acceptable to start with but he isn't even remorseful and apologetic about what he said and thinks you deserved a beating previously. No one deserves that (and I mean that, I include people who so terrible things).

I was also wondering if his shutting off from argument was truly a coping mechanism, or merely a way to get you more wound up so that, after the argument, he can blame you for escalating/going on. Eventually he can blame you when he hits you (it doesn't seem too out there, given he blames you for other people assaulting you).

Dirtybadger and hellsbells the whole thing has completely thrown me to be honest as I did not think he would ever say that or blame me for the violence with the ex p. I do believe the shutting down is a coping mechanism with him though, Although there may be an element of control going on that I never picked up on before. He genuinely is v laid back and nice in normal day to day life, it's just when we have a disagreement that we massively clash but I would never have thought of him to stoop that low. I am not excusing myself in the initial argument, that was equally both of us being stupid but you're right, no one, no matter what they have done, deserves violence or the threat of it.

If he doesn't apologize tonight or accept that what happened was wrong and can never happen again I will have to have a good long think this weekend

What does your DH have to apologise for? He says he believes that it was your fault you drove your ex to be violent. He says that you are to blame for driving him to almost hit you.

Are you asking him to apologise for his beliefs? Or to apologise for expressing beliefs that you don't agree with? Listen to what he is telling you and who he is.