Another PIL thread...

[atotalshambles]

This is my first time posting on a thread but I would appreciate any help from anyone who has been in a similar situation.

I have known my PIL for years and years. They are very lovely people. They both retired a few years ago and are in good health. We always got on really well. That is until we had children!

I realised that things had changed on our first joint holiday when my first child was a few months old. As soon as we arrived at the destination they took the baby and basically wouldn't let me near the baby for the rest of the holiday. I would snatch a few moments with the baby before the baby would taken away for 'grandparent time'. They are basically the most enthusiastic grandparents ever. They mean well but just take over.

This holiday set the scene for the last few years .We have since had 2 more children and every time they see them they like to take them off on their own to have 'control' and do things 'their way'. If we ever leave them with them for a few days they always try to extend the time they have them or take control in their own way. For example, if I leave medicine for a child they will go out and buy a separate medicine which they think is better. When I was pregnant last year I went to stay with them with the children for a few days and they would go out for a few hours and leave me in their house on my own (and not ask me!). I think they were put out that I hadn't wanted to leave them with them on their own.

Last year just before i had my last baby i became seriously ill. To their credit they dropped everything and came to help. I wasn't expected to recover and while my husband was with me in hospital they looked after the kids. For the next 6 weeks they looked after the kids and were great. I was amazingly lucky and after a month was out of hospital and am now expected to make a full recovery in time. I was separated from my baby for the first month which has been really difficult.

Initially I found it really hard to bond with the baby and I did tell my PILs but they would say things like 'I was so bonded with the baby that I have really struggled to give him back' and 'we could easily take the baby home '. They would not let me near the baby at a time when I needed to bond so in the end we made alternative arrangements for childcare. I now look after the kids pretty much all of the time. I have a little bit of help but mostly do it independently. I am completely bonded with the baby now. The PIL ask to come down constantly and if we refuse then they try to engineer a reason e.g. we are meeting friends can we stay at your house etc..

What I struggle with now is how to move on. I want things to change with the PIL. I feel that my own parents have suffered and not seen the kids as much as they are not as 'pushy'. I want to have a good relationship with the PIL but not have them take over. I can already see they are annoyed as we are trying to put in some boundaries and not see them as much/see them on our own terms. I also find I am angry with them as I feel they they didn't help me bond with the baby but were more interested in 'their time' with 'their grandchildren'.

I don't want want to fall out with them as I know they mean well . Any suggestions for help would be appreciated.

Well Atot, when all is said and done they are your husband 's parent and not yours. The relationship is just not the same between you and them and your parents. I have five friends who are all MIL's Mothers and DIL's and we spend ages mulling over the relationships we have with our DIL now they have married our sons. We all get on with them to a degree, and want to get on with them desperately but the relationship is just not the same as with our daughters because that relationship can be more honest. We will always be our daughters Mothers, so they can say what they like to us and we will still be there for them, but the MIL DIL relationship can be ended by divorce. Are you absolutely sure that what has happened between you has been entirely down to them and their behaviour ? Are you able to give them clear messages and be assertive? Also If you give them a list of their failings, are you prepared for them to give you a list of yours? When you say that you wished they hadn't helped you,if they hadn't, perhaps you would now be questioning why not? It isn't easy being either a PIL or a DIL it takes a lot of tolerance.

It takes a lot of tolerance ... and respecting each others' need for space.

Of course - and absolutely understandably. I wonder if they're struggling after being so full on whilst you were so ill, to not really being needed now? My own PIL drove me mad when my DC were babies, and they were also miles away - which was a blessing. I found it helpful to plan specific weekend visits (in all fairness, they weren't worried about it being too regular!), and I geared myself up for these times (bought lots of wine), and I wasn't recovering from illness.

Why don't you leave if for a couple of months if you can bear it before talking to them, so that it will possibly start to resolve itself without 'the talk' being a big issue?

20 years later, my DC love all of their 'oldies', and we all rub along quite nicely - and I'm actually very fond of them.

I think Atot needs to look at her own personality in this situation. Is there a possibility that because she was not able to say assertively and honestly right from the start what she wanted from them, that this has caused them not to realise they are doing anything wrong? This is a problem with all relationships, but especially between PIL and DIL. So without clear boundaries her PIL have gone over the top. She says she would now have preferred to do without their help, but what if they hadn't helped? She may be saying now that that they didn't help her and why not? They are her husband's parents not hers and it a difficult relationship to get right and takes a lot of tolerance. If she gives them a list of their failings, they may well surprise her with a list of hers. I am glad you have recovered from your illness Atot. I did not mean to say that you were bitchy, only that the remark about your SIL could possibly be interpreted as jealousy.

Thanks again for the feedback. I think I have no problem telling my own parents to back off but the situation with PIL is that I have left it to my OH who struggles to talk about anything like that. He knows that he should have said something sooner and that he has made the issue worse. My PIL esp my MIL think my SIL can do no wrong. While I think it is a bit bonkers it only annoys me when I have to hear about it. We are fortunate enough to have a support network where we live and could have managed without them. I should also add while I was recovering my MIL said that if she known I would have been so ill then she would have encouraged my husband not to marry me and she also asked if I had any other illnesses which could affect her grandchildren. Although I know she is tactless rather than mean.

Oh those comments from your MIL while you were ill must have really hurt deeply. It's a shame they weren't dealt with by your DP at the time.

Personally I wouldn't dig up the past I'd just decide with DH how we moved forwards, where we were comfortable with boundaries being placed and then stick to it.

I would suggest you sit down with your DH and work out what you want to achieve and then the best way to do that. I'd suggest that if you are determined to "have it out" with them that you have only one main "deal breaker" and then Maybe another smaller issue. You can't change everything at once and many more issues will probably sop real
Progress being made. It's better to go in with "this is our problem", it's happened on these occasions, we understand that your perspective is "xxx" but it causes us problems.

As much as you probably want to bring up past hurts like those you have posted about, just make sure that doing so will achieve what you want rather than possibly inflame a situation so it obscures issues that can actually be changed.

agreed, better if past issues remain in the past if at all possible.

that comment was super tactless though and would leave a mark. If it is still biting you in say a year's time, once they've worked out that you aren't actually cutting them completely out just changing the interactoin a little and they've adjusted, if it's still cutting deep then it might be worth (gently) bringing it up

I was angry with my friend:
I told my wrath, my wrath did end.
I was angry with my foe:
I told it not, my wrath did grow.

I'd also be careful not to give the impression that you're only interested in seeing them when they can do something for you. You say you could have managed without them recently, but they must be missing your children having been so closely involved in their lives when the baby was born. When they ring up asking to visit, could you say No but set a date in the future so they have something to look forward to? Things are bound to change as your dcs get older and develop their own social lives.

I'd honestly avoid anything as formal as A Talk. I think they will be very hurt and whether that's justifiable or not, it will cause problems in the future.

This is a really complicated dynamic and its not always apparent to those who thankfully have healthy families where this sort of nonsense does not ever go on.

Her ILs have consistently driven a bus through any boundaries that have been set and those boundaries to date have been set too low by both of these people. It is also of no surprise to me at all that OPs H cannot talk to them probably because of inbuilt conditioning not to do so.

OPs ILs are not nice and will not give up their own chosen roles at all easily. On some level I feel that they do not think you are both at all capable.

No - I think they think they're being helpful. As is obvious from these boards, some mothers find it difficult to let other people mind their children. Others are desperate for a couple of hours off. I'd guess that MIL is doing what she'd have liked someone to do for her when she was a young mother. She may not realise that OP feels differently.

Perhaps OP, if an issue arises, you could express your reluctance to comply in terms of your need to be with the children, not wanting to be away from them, rather than the PILs overstepping some mark or other. I genuinely think this would not be a problem with a different DIL. Which is not to criticise you, OP. You've had a tough time and you don't recover emotionally from something like that overnight.

Oh total, my heart goes out to you with all you have been through.
Speaking as one of the older members here, I think they have massively overstepped boundaries and I would be so hurt thaypt what should have been a positive thing seems to have turned into a nightmare.
As sais above, you can't rewrite the past. You can go forward by being very definite that you and DH set the rules for your children. Don't rake over old coals, just state what is to happen calmly. Any repetition along the lines of withholding the baby has to be dealt with immediately. Repeat your request firmly. If still no action then add "Now" in a firm tone. They should soon get the idea. Don't be afraid to show your annoyance over important things like the medicine. That was outrageous, a breach if trust and could have been dangerous. Emphasise this to them if a similar incident happens again.
They do not know best simply because they are GPs. You and DH know your children best. I'm sure GPs love them, but their love has a competitive edge that is very worrying.
For holidays, just do your own thing. It's important that your family of 5 has some special times with the GPs and some with just yourselves. Have a day out with the GPs instead and you have the knowledge that it is only one day!
I'd just try to go forward ina positive and assertive way and not get into conversations about the past. These can often turn into recriminations on both sides and probably won't achieve anything. Remember: you do not have tO let them ride roughshod over you even if they do it with the best of intentions - shades of the iron hand on the. Elver glove!

Thank you so much for all the replies. I really appreciate it. I am definitely not going to go over old ground but make sure that from now on things change. I was feeling a bit down about it all and you all have made me feel that we can change our relationship without falling out. Thanks.

I think you just need to establish boundaries you are more comfortable with.

I would see them less often and also distance myself emotionally a bit - tell them less about what is going on your life.

The joint holidays sound hellish.

I agree with Hole.

I'm wondering who would have cared for your DCs for six weeks if the PILs hadn't.
The Dcs lives were disrupted as little as possible by them dropping everything for a whole six weeks and moving into your home.
They completely took care of the DCs allowing your DH and your parents to concentrate on being with you.
I expect they kept your home running too, cooking, cleaning, washing and shopping.

I'm so glad my Dcs are female, so I'll never have a DIL.

Send your pils my way please........

How os getting in the way of a mother bonding with her baby?

The medicine stuff?

I think this is dysfunctional somehow but by stealth. Under the guise of being super grandparents?

Crafty.

Op. Say no. Agree to only visits and outings that you're comfortable with.

I'm wondering if your DCs enjoy the time they spend with their DGPs - that doesn't seem to have been mentioned.

Best wishes to you for a full recovery.

Does it matter if a child enjoys time with them?
If your DC enjoyed spending time with someone who let drink fizzy drinks all dat, or let them ride a bike without a helmet or be out in hot sun without sunscreen all day - even though they knew it was against your wishes, it doesn't make the situation any better.

It sounds like the GPs are pretending the DC are their own children and have got carried away.

Well who wouldn't have helped in such a situation if they could?

Doesn't mean that they get to take over though!

Do you think that having it out with them will do any good, or just better to set boundaries & carry them through?

My parents always wanted to see me as well & we did stuff together.

There was no taking off of the GCs, although if I'd wanted time alone I'm sure they would have.

Same with ILs.

They wanted to see their son & GC, not interefere, pretend to be parents.

Children would enjoy eating sweets all day, going to bed when they want, watching all kinds of films, playing all kinds of computer games.

Doesn't mean it'd be good for them.

These ILS aren't maintaining a healthy relationship here. They are undermining the mother.

Them rushing to help when the op was taken seriously ill is good, yes. But in doing so the purposely hampered the bonding between the op and her newborn. They didn't support the reconnect.

Would they have come running if their DS (op's DH) was in hospital? Would they have come to support their DIL? They rushed down when she was gravely ill and out of the way. They were irritated when she went and stayed with the dc, and deliberately excluded her from activities. So their involvement is all under the guise of caring, it's not, it's way more sinister than that.

They are somehow treating the op as a baby factory, an inconvenience and playing at happy families with her dc. It's not healthy.

Maybe op will return and let us know if the PILs feed the DCs junk and stay up all night or not.
I think we are all making assumptions about the PIL without knowing the facts.

I'm assuming that they are being good carers, preparing healthy meals and doing appropriate activities with them and others are assuming otherwise.

The comments about junk food etc were in response to a previous poster wondering if the DC enjoyed being with GPs. As in "it doesn't matte if the GPs are not acting in the DCs best interest". Nobody has said they actually do this and the only person assuming things is you ! We don't know anything about meals eyc so best just to leave that out if this discussion and concentrate on what is known, which us that the GPs seem to regard themselves as having at least an equal relationship as the parents. Which they do not.

OP, I'm sorry you had a tough time.

I feel your in laws have really overstepped the mark. They took over and didn't help you bonding with the baby when you were desperately ill. You may not have been in a position to see that it was vital for you to have the baby around you (I was in your situation when my baby dd2 was 10 days old) but they took advantage without thinking about you.

I think that is what hurts and I would struggle to keep up a good relationship with them.
They didn't give unconditional help, they used the situation to act out their ideal world scenario. To me that is dysfunctional.
Yes, of course you can smother it all with a "but they did everything to help you" but a slight distaste stays in my mouth after what you've written about them.

I agree that your ILs have hugely overstepped the boundaries here. The medicine thing, not letting you have your baby to bond with, going out for the day when you go to their house for some time with your children. All examples of them putting themselves first and undermining you.

I agree that there is probably no point in going over it all now with them.I doubt they would either understand or want to try to understand anyway. Moving forward with boundaries in place is the way to go, and luckily your DH supports and agrees with what has happened and that it can't continue.

I think days out with them rather than family holidays with them would be better. Perhaps also meet them on neutral territory for a while, say halfway between where they and you live for a day out. Also more time with your own family since you feel they have missed out.

If they do kick off over it, then that might be the time to gently point out that certain things have made you both feel uncomfortable or upset, so you have had to pull back a bit to improve the over all relationships between your little family and them.

Katie: I was the previous poster who enquired if the DCs enjoyed being with the DGPs.

You then brought the poor caring scenerio up.