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Original poster

I think my brother is married to a narcissist

62 replies

DayKay · 01/07/2014 23:47

My sil has always been horrible. We couldn't understand her behaviour at first but she used to accuse my family of not making an effort with her and treating her badly, when we hadn't.
We tried to make amends. She's quite materialistic so we bought her nice gifts for her birthday and other occasions. I'd email and text her and see how she was. She would reply but never initiate any conversation. We would always try to make her feel included but she always had some sore point. My brother gave up trying to ask her to stop being rude to us as it it just made her worse.
She's polite enough when my brother was around, but often when he was out of earshot, she'd make some horrible PA comment.
My mum is often sad about how things are with her and feels cut off from my brother and her grandchildren. Sil has no sense of humour at all and is quite limited in what she talks about (we've always tried to include the topics she feels she can talk about). She also lies quite blatantly about things we've apparently said.

I now cannot stand her and make no effort with her whatsoever. Its a horrible situation for my brother. He's not one to open up so I don't know what their relationship is like but I know this situation isn't easy for him.

I don't really know what I'm asking as I know everyone is different and even with narcissism, there must be degrees of it?

I guess I just want to know if it does sound like she's a narcissist and how we can deal with her. A friend who knows about the situation said 'I bet you can't wait for her to get some comeuppance' but I don't want that.
I'd just love to be able to maintain a decent, polite relationship with her but that means she has to change which I doubt will ever happen!

So whats the next best thing?

OP posts:
twizzleship · 02/07/2014 01:10

stop making an effort with her, you're just supplying the 'fuel' (i.e attention) that she feeds off. don't go out of your way to include her/talk to her, just remain polite and civil and emotionally detached when she's around you.
she will probably then complain to your DB that you are all ignoring her Grin but just carry on, don't fall for the drama she wants to create

Aussiebean · 02/07/2014 01:27

The waiting to be alone to say rude things and making stuff is is what my mum does. I have very little to do with her now.

But you aren't your brother which is the problem and don't really know what goes on in his marriage. Keep talking to him, keep including him and keep that line of support open.

2Retts · 02/07/2014 01:38

I'm not altogether convinced that you are describing a Narcisistic Personality Disorder as such DayKay...it doesn't seem to quite fit for me from what you have expressed.

To be frank, I think she may just be an insecure, drama llama with no specific 'label' IYSWIM.

I may be completely wrong but some of the things you have described simply don't fit. I think it can be so very easy to label folk according to popular psychology perceptions, which are so very often over-simplified nowadays.

I agree with twizzleship though; just stop trying so hard when it's so very one-sided. You can't change how she perceives your family (probably as some threat to her family unit that she has worked so hard to secure).

Be civil when you have to be around her and don't engage when not. Your mum is going to have to develop a bit of a rhino-hide if she is to maintain a level of contact with her GCs that she desires; or not and simply take what is on offer. I hope you can all find an acceptable balance.

2Retts · 02/07/2014 01:40

Cross posted with Aussie, the route to communication is definitely through your brother. He chose her, let him deal with her.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 02/07/2014 06:34

I'm not really getting a personality disorder from that description either. More someone who is insecure in themselves, defensive, sees your wider family as some kind of threat and operates an 'attack is the best form of defence' policy. Your DB must be happy with the situation and the quality of relationship he has with the rest of the family or he'd do something about it.

I think you take as much notice of it as you want to take and let her get away with as much or as little as you're prepared to tolerate. Do you have to see this person very often, for example? Are they 'OK in small doses'?

WildBillfemale · 02/07/2014 07:02

I know a true narcissist and she is an absolute pain in the arse to spend even 5 minutes with. I have let her drift off now as it's impossible to have a healthy relationship with someone who is me me me me me, lies all the time and always chooses the path of maximum drama. I knew this person 25 years ago, lost touch for these reasons. Recently came into contact again only to find the traits exaggerated over time. It is a serious personality disorder.
An American serviceman she had a month long fling with 25 years ago has now been embellished to an American fighter pilot she lived with in America for some years (complete bollox) A school trip to France has been embellished to be 'the time she spent working at a top pattisserie in Paris. A summer season as a red coat at Butlins is when she was a professional dancer, Working at Home-base is when she was an interior designer. The strangest thing is she seems to forget I met the serviceman all those years ago, I knew her when she had these other jobs but she is so caught up in exaggerating and telling people how great she is she believes the lies herself.

She's very charming and bubbly when you first meet her so people are drawn in until she starts tripping herself up with her own behaviour. Most friends scarper when they realise what they are dealing with so the lies and exaggeration are taken as truth by the next wave of new friends until they too realise. it's lies, me me me lies and really bloody unpleasant to be around a true narcissist.

Your sil sounds like a pain in the arse/insecure but a way off being a true narcissist. You can't bend over backwards to try and deal with her forever. Just carry on being yourselves as a family, the onus is on her to fit in now.

EarthWindFire · 02/07/2014 08:01

I think it can be dangerous to armchair label people.

You SIL just sounds like a typical PITA.

Original poster
DayKay · 02/07/2014 08:06

I thought her total lack of empathy, self absorption, doesn't ever understand jokes and being unable to engage in conversations that aren't about her and what she likes were symptons of a personality disorder. Maybe I just wanted to label her to be able to 'get' her.

When I asked her last week if she's read st Clare's as a youngster because my niece (not her dd) was reading it, she said no but that's because she enjoyed Shakespeare at primary school. It was so far fetched. She doesn't even have an English gcse and never reads so I know she was lying. She does have a tendency for those kinds of lies.

I do see her fairly often as we re a fairly close family and get together quite a bit. I don't bother with her anymore and only maintain a politeness. I know that upsets my brother but I feel that's the only thing I can do.

OP posts:
QisforQcumber · 02/07/2014 08:14

DayKay Shock until your last post I was about to PM you and ask if you are my husbands sister.

Wine - My BIL is married to someone who sound remarkably similar to my SIL. We aren't allowed to talk about my further study in front of her as it makes her feel "thick" or about anything prior to her arrival in the family as we are "deliberately trying to leave her out". Wine helps. A lot.

QisforQcumber · 02/07/2014 08:16

"My BIL is married to someone who sound remarkably similar to my SIL. "
That makes fuck all sense doesn't it?

My BIL is married to someone who sounds remarkably like YOUR SIL.
That's better.

HercShipwright · 02/07/2014 08:21

Maybe she just doesn't like you and doesn't have anything in common with you? Never having read St Clares is definitely BU though. I'd NC her for that alone.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 02/07/2014 08:25

It's very, very obvious that she sees herself as inferior to your family in some way. That's why she's bragging/lying about reading Shakespeare at primary school. It doesn't make her a narcissist necessarily, but she is certainly over-compensating in an effort to impress and - when she can't compete - she goes on the defensive. What's her background in terms of socio-economic group, education, income and so on? What does she do for a living compared to the rest of your family?

Original poster
DayKay · 02/07/2014 09:37

Well my family are all degree educated and are all employed in fairly good jobs. Her siblings are too but I think she only has a few gcses.
We are not stuck up about it all and aren't bothered. When she was first introduced to us, she was running her own import business which we were all impressed with. But it seems that was all a lie too. My other sil doesn't have a degree and doesn't work and no one cares. She's such a lovely person and is quite close to my mum.

It's true that she probably doesn't like me or the rest of my family and she's just not mature enough to maintain a polite relationship.

Maybe the issues are from her own family. I once mentioned that her younger sister had the most charming smile I'd seen and she immediately got defensive and said 'what? Her? No, all my relatives think I'm the beautiful one' it's a really odd thing to say about your own lovely sister and she was obviously annoyed.

OP posts:
Meerka · 02/07/2014 10:44

In the end you can't force a relationship; it takes two to respond. It's sad when you're clearly welcoming and friendly and she can't / won't respond but all you can do is back off and wait, hoping she might chill out in the end.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 02/07/2014 11:15

She's definitely suffering from feelings of inferiority. Almost certainly started with her own family - the remark about her alleged beauty - but I suspect she believes that your family are also looking down their noses at her.... hence why she's lying, getting defensive etc. Then again, you said she 'only' has a few GCSEs so maybe you care more about that kind of thing than you appreciate? :)

I have a cousin who we (privately) call 'Billy Liar'. He's one of five brothers, most of whom have done really well for themselves, and to say he has a chip on his shoulder is an understatement. If you get a new car he used to own one just the same but decided they were rubbish. If you've been somewhere he's been there before and didn't rate it. Last time I saw him he was telling me all about his import/export fashion business which meant a lot of foreign travel. If it hadn't been for his girlfriend saying he sold jeans on a market stall and hadn't been further than Stockport we might have believed it. :)

HercShipwright · 02/07/2014 11:25

^Well my family are all degree educated and are all employed in fairly good jobs. Her siblings are too but I think she only has a few gcses.
We are not stuck up about it all and aren't bothered. When she was first introduced to us, she was running her own import business which we were all impressed with. But it seems that was all a lie too. My other sil doesn't have a degree and doesn't work and no one cares^

See, I think it sounds like you DO care. And that it's not so much her feeling inferior as you feeling superior.

Original poster
DayKay · 02/07/2014 11:37

Why do you think that? I only mentioned it because I was asked by Cogito and I happen to know. I really don't care.

A degree isn't the be all and end all. Its what you're like as a person. It helps if you're not a bitch and can look beyond yourself which is the problem I have with my sil. Not her education or career prospects.

OP posts:
HercShipwright · 02/07/2014 11:51

Why mention her education and career at all then? Or yours? I don't like my SiL because she is a bitch, and a dull one at that. Her education and career are irrelevant to that.

Original poster
DayKay · 02/07/2014 11:56

Because Cogito asked me! She was obviously trying to suss out where sil is coming from.

I'll say it again - I mentioned it because I was asked. I'm really not bothered what qualifications people around me have.

OP posts:
HercShipwright · 02/07/2014 12:03

I don't know whether SiL has O levels of CSEs, or how many A levels she has (if indeed she has any). She certainly doesn't know about my school exam record. We know where we both went for higher ed.

Quitelikely · 02/07/2014 12:10

How about just accepting her for who she is. Was she not joking when she said she read Shakespeare? Maybe she is a nice person but you have different interests from her.

She might know that yous feel this way towards her. Just because you haven't said it out loud. Imagine how that feels to her. At least she comes to your get togethers etc.

I know you wanted her to be one of yous but she isn't she's just herself. Accept her as that and I bet she would do the same

Quitelikely · 02/07/2014 12:11

Well you know she doesn't have an English GCSE

Original poster
DayKay · 02/07/2014 12:16

Well I do know because she told me herself when she was talking about business courses she was planning on doing to help her with her import business and how she would need a maths and English gcse.

There's no issue here as far as I'm concerned. I've never brought up the subject with her because its no concern of mine. I really don't care and I don't care about her either. It's my brother I'm concerned for so ultimately, I need to keep the peace with her rather than asking her why she's such a cow which is what I really want to do.

I'm not sure how this has turned into me thinking I'm superior and looking down on her. I look down on her for being a selfish cow and making my mums life a misery with her hurtful comments. Nothing more.

OP posts:
Original poster
DayKay · 02/07/2014 12:24

Quitelikely I don't think you're getting quite how horrible she is. No, she was not joking about Shakespeare. She told me a lot about how impressed her teachers were etc.

She comes to ours, because my brother goes to a lot of effort with her family too. She is often awful when she's at ours and we wished she hadn't bothered. But of course, only when my brother is out of earshot and mostly directed at my mum. And its passive aggressive comments which would sound ridiculous if repeated.
She knows my mums not going to say anything to my brother about it because my mums someone who never interferes in our lives and she most definitely doesn't want to come between my brother and his wife.

OP posts:
Gen35 · 02/07/2014 12:26

Hmmm I was panicking this was about me for a bit but the educational stuff definitely rules me out as the candidate. The reason I don't engage much with my dh's family is mostly because they are gossips. I have proof of this because they quite often discuss the families of the other people their dc are married to in front of me, so I feel anything I say about my family will be a similar talking point. Are you sure you don't do this type of thing? It may be that she has been genuinely hurt in the past by comments others didn't pick up on. My MIL is the master of the non kiss, and regularly thanks dh for things I've organised.