MIL and DH nightmare - help

[Zarabethy]

I have a 11-month DD and work full time, though my hours are flexible so I can work long days half the week and short days the rest so I can be at home with DD. DH doesn't work at the moment, so we are completely dependent on my salary, but he's meant to be finishing his degree (though he's not doing much at the moment, partly because understandably it's really tough doing the bulk of looking after DD). I'm still breast feeding on demand and do all the night wakings because of this.

Since the start of the year I've been ill a lot (I have various health problems exacerbated by a bad birth) and haven't been able to take DD as much as I'd hoped on my "short" days. MIL has been coming round to help look after DD. I've been increasingly uncomfortable about this, but we have no other family help (my family are rubbish, but that's another story) and we can't afford paid childcare.

For a while now DH has been repeatedly verbally and emotionally abusive to me, sometimes giving me a shove or blocking my way, shouting at me and name calling - usually obscene or nasty names (mostly at night when I'm not dressed so can't easily get away). We are not getting on well at all - DH claims I don't do enough childcare so he can do his course work; I think he is making excuses (yes looking after DD is hard and he needs some downtime, but he spends it being isolated, making nasty comments at me and playing computer games - house is an absolute tip and food going off in the fridge all the time etc.) I accept that with young children relationships go through a hard time, but I don't pick at him or call him names and his behaviour is downright nasty and he starts shouting at me all the time for no reason, often when I'm holding DD or feeding her. I am very depressed because of it - I don't think it's normal to be called obscene names all the time. And lots of stuff about how I'm a crap mother because I don't do enough childcare for DD (even though I can't help going to work!)

I recently discovered that a lot of this nasty stuff is coming from his mother, who makes repeated poisonous comments about me the while time she is here and has been for months now. DH and I have been going to couples counselling and he to individual counselling as a lot of his anger issues stem from his upbringing - his mother is an extremely odd, difficult person who brought him up on her own in a chaotic and isolated way - think living in caravans, sleeping in cars, no clean bedding or clothes, chaotic eating habits (fast food and biscuits only), social interaction completely discouraged, being dragged from school to school because his mother always fell out with the teachers, and so on. She had access to a bit of family money which I think meant she was able to fly under the radar of SS a lot of the time and not be noticed but DH was quite neglected in many ways, though she is smothering in other ways - she even took him out of school a few times so that he was always at home with her to "keep her company". Both DH and I strongly suspect she has quite a severe undiagnosed ASD - her emotional life is a bit like a child's and she finds it impossible to understand other people's emotions, can't read tones of voice etc. and often gets quite basic things wrong - but she is his only mother and our only family around at the moment, and I wanted DD to have a relationship with her granny so I have been happy for her to come to play with DD (she wanted to and is always turning up at the house without asking anyway).

However, I discovered that a lot of the nasty things DH has been saying have been coming from her - lots of stuff about how I'm not a good mother because I work, DH should be "looked after", I have OCD (I don't - I just get frustrated when DH allows food to go mouldy and things in the house to get too filthy); I'm an evil person and so on. Amongst other things (flu, stomach bug, etc., I've had mastitis three times in the past four months. I'm dog tired and so depressed about being constantly told I'm a bitch and a cunt and I don't do enough by DH, then also told by MIL that I have a mental illness because I don't like to live in complete squalor!
We have a nice house and both strive to give DD home-cooked food, a good routine, bf, nice toys and lots of love - which MIL thinks is being "OCD".

Normally I'd just try not to let MIL bother me but this week she started saying stuff about how DH is not abusive and everything is my fault, all married people call each other nasty names and I am "worse than him as far as she can see" (I'm bloody not!), and I'm mentally ill and lots more rubbish. All the counsellors we have seen agree that DH's behaviour is abusive and he needs to stop it. He is verbally abusive partly because his mother brought him up to think that was okay (no proper boundaries), though of course it is his problem and it's him who is deciding to be abusive, so it's him I primarily hold responsible. But this week I was so upset at being told some of this poisonous stuff by MIL, I snapped and told MIL I wouldn't see her or have her in my house again and I wouldn't allow anyone around my daughter any more who said poisonous and malicious things about me. I was on the verge of throwing DH out too and still am. But I'm now feeling awful about MIL, who despite being a malicious person just isn't really capable of properly understanding adult emotions, and DD then can't see her granny...

I feel so isolated and alone! But I don't want someone around me who normalises and excuses abusive behaviour just as DH is starting to make changes. And it makes the childcare burden even greater for DH if his mum can't even come round for a few hours. But his behaviour does get a lot worse when she's been here.

Am I right to cut off contact with MIL? Any advice or support really appreciated :(

I think you need to get away from both these people, asap, to be honest. You have the power as you are the one with the salary. If you were on your own, wouldn't you get childcare tax credits? I don't think counselling is a great idea with someone abusive.

Your husband is abusive - issue number one.
Your husband is deeply damaged by his childhood - issue number two.
Your mother in law is a toxic influence - issue number three.

Issue three is the only one you can control to an extent. However this involves leaving your abusive husband and limiting contact severely for dd. I can't see what possible benefit she will get from a relationship with this poisonous abusive woman.

Issue two is not fixable by you. And it does not excuse issue one.

Issue one requires a solution you won't like, but you simply have to leave him. If he responds to this by seeking therapy, enrol long on a perpetrators programme and cutting off his toxic mother then in 12 months or so you may be in a position to reassess. However you are being abused, your child will be affected by all this and there is nothing else you can do to stop it.

Oh zara what a horrible situation for you.

This isn't going to easy for you to hear/read. But in my opinion it doesn't matter where his abusive behaviour is coming from. The point is - he is abusive. Whether it comes from his mother, his upbringing or just because he is a bully, it doesn't matter. He is abusive.

It's time to put yourself and your DD first. Is there any other chilcare options for while you work? Because ideally you need to get both him and his mother out the house.

He may change, but the shock of losing you is (in my opinion) the best chance you have of this.

Would you consider calling Women's Aid for advice and support?

I'm so sorry you are going through this. You can't live like this.

Dear god, I don't know where to start!
Was he always like this? He really has crossed the line here.

Yes he can look after his child and study. I wrote essays with a tiny DS on my shoulder (he was born a week after my classes finished and I had to submit a thesis). DH was working long hours and my mum was 700 miles away.

You need to get as much distance between your family and the mother. She is a manevolent force that can only cause mischief - for whatever reason.

How much longer does your DH need to study for? Can he finish the course part time/OU?

None of this is normal OP and you don't have to put up with it. I agree with other posters that your biggest problem is your husband. His behaviour towards you sounds truly disgusting. He is physically and emotionally abusive. No doubt he has been badly scarred by his awful childhood but it is not your job to be his emotional punchbag. I agree with the advice to call Women's Aid. I'm so sorry you're going through this.

God girl do not put up with his behaviour for a second l

I think you need to get away from both of them.

Whatever the ins and outs of his childhood, being your DH's emotional punch bag is not going to 'cure' him. If he is so easily influenced by his mother - clearly somebody who has difficulty functioning - he has his own problems that won't be solved just by removing her from your lives (even if that is possible).

Thank you all for this support - it really really helps. It's really good to hear from others that his behaviour is abusive, because his mother normalises and excuses it so much that when she's around he has this other voice telling him it's perfectly fine - I feel like I'm going mad trying to establish some boundaries about this.

I didn't realise until this week that while she's been in my house while I've been at work she's been saying all this stuff about me, which of course has been undermining everything I've been saying to him. I think I may have to ask him to leave for a bit :( but I'm so run down and depressed that I don't know how I'd manage on my own initially :( I have been trying to cut down breast feeding so that I can night wean and get a bit more sleep, but DH doesn't want me to (MIL breastfed him until he was about six) and I wish I didn't have to but I'm desperate to feel a bit more physically well and I can only do that if I can sleep a bit more.

Agh, what a mess, I hate myself so much for getting myself into this situation :(

Longer. Your baby is certainly taking all of this in and those two are pathetic. They are just turning towards you and taking their anger/frustrations out on you! Ahem just who do they think they are!

He is getting counselling but by god it's obviously doing no good.

Do not take this crap. Doesn't he get uni loans if he is at uni? You can also access a discretionary fund if you think your studies are going up the wall due to certain factors. I.e he might well be able to seek help for childcare costs while he studies (if you can prove your income can't pay for it).

You might be able to afford paid child-care if you weren't carrying another adult around like a bloody dead weight.

I think you know what you need to do but suspect you're frozen by fear, guilt and indecision.

I believe the problems you're dealing with are too great to be resolved by simple counselling and suggest you contact Womens Aid to help you escape from their clutches. I can't see any other choice, other than to tolerate the situation as it is for the foreseeable.

Can you see yourself still where you are now in five or ten year's time?

Agh, what a mess, I hate myself so much for getting myself into this situation

Hang on a sec - you have a full time job, you are doing all the night wakings, you have gone through 3 bouts of mastitis but are still breast feeding on demand. You are super woman!

Sometimes relationships don't work out - I am sure you didn't go into this relationship expecting your DH to behave like this. What you need to do now is get help and establish what resources are available so you can get on with your life.

OK, if she is on the autism spectrum then I think that she may respond to a very clear rule bound approach, IF your DH also subscribes fully to it and IF he presents it to her as part of a united front. If DH is unable or unwilling to do this, then I don't see much of a future.

I would write a 'contract' which outlines what each person in the three of you contributes, minimal expectations for them, and what they will not do; make it clear that this is a last and final attempt to establish proper respectful relationships and that if this doesn't work, you will be leaving. Or, of course, DH can get abandon the studies and get himself a job if he doesn't like being the primary carer.

eg:
Mum - works 3 long days and 2 short ones for family finances. Stacks dishwasher after supper. Does night feeds. Does majority of childcare (playing, cooking DD's tea) on return home from work on 2 short days.

Dad - Is primary carer on Mon, Tue, Wed, and Thurs and Fri mornings. Responsible for getting in shopping, feeding DD and preparing family supper on those days, and for keeping key areas of house (kitchens, bathrooms) in an acceptable condition. Has study time (undisturbed) on Th and Fri on Mum's return from work for 4 hours per day, plus 2 hours study time (undisturbed) on M, T, W when MIL looks after DD.

MIL - Provides 2 hours per day of childcare for DGD on M, T, W. This involves playing with DD, taking her to the park, giving quality time. There is no expectation that this role will include maintenance of the house or buying food. It is to enable DH to study and MIL to have quality time with DGD in a mutually beneficial way.

We believe that the aforementioned division of labour between Mum and Dad is fair and equitable and mirrors, albeit reversed, what commonly happens in many families. Both parties provide essential roles in bringing up our daughter. We do not anticipate any negative comments to be made about either party by MIL, either to Mum, Dad, or to DD herself. We are BOTH working as hard as we can to manage a difficult situation and appreciate the role played by MIL in this; however, MIL must understand that any repetition of the negative comments that previously occurred will result in an immediate termination of the arrangement and the relationship.

Do you think MIL might respond to something like that that clearly shows her what everyone's jobs are? If not - asd or not - sadly it will likely to her loss.

Please please get help to leave him

Your situation will get worse not better :(

Where's your family in all this?

Bf him til he was six! Don't be sucked into that. Yes bf has benefits etc but you don't need them to outweigh your own health at the moment. You have got enough on your plate without the demands it can produce. I suspect you will be in for it from both if them if you try to stop.

These two sound beyond repair. Google tax credit calculator. It will give you an estimate of the financial help you will recieve should you feel strong enough to get away from these two. Honestly they could end up breaking you down to a emotional wreck!

Whether or not your MIL has ASD, from what you have said your MIL's difficulties go beyond ASD.

"Both DH and I strongly suspect she has quite a severe undiagnosed ASD - her emotional life is a bit like a child's and she finds it impossible to understand other people's emotions, can't read tones of voice etc. and often gets quite basic things wrong - but she is his only mother and our only family around at the moment, and I wanted DD to have a relationship with her granny so I have been happy for her to come to play with DD (she wanted to and is always turning up at the house without asking anyway)"

No, that does not read like ASD at all and the last sentence shows that his mother has no sense of boundaries whatsoever. ASD does not equal abusive behaviour. All of the above reads more like someone with a narcissistic type personality.

Regardless though of why his mother is the disordered way she is, her son has been profoundly affected by his dysfunctional upbringing.

You will need to get away from both him and his mother before they do any more emotional damage to you and by turn your child. Womens Aid can and will help you leave this toxic environment.

If his mother is too toxic/difficult/abusive for you to deal with, its the same for your DD as well OP. What makes you think she will treat your child any differently from the ways in which her own son was treated?. She could well use the child to get back at you.

Thank you everyone :( Yes bitter I think you're right :( I'm going to be telling DH that he needs to find somewhere to move to for a while to see if that makes a difference. There have never been any consequences from his mother for bad behaviour (she excuses everything and this is compounded by the fact that she often doesn't appear to "see" anger anyway). The problem is that I know if I chuck him out he will probably have to move in with his mum which will just make everything worse (his uni funding has run out) or ask her to give him money which is exactly what she wants.

God I would be relieved that he has somewhere to go tbh. At least he will go sooner.

I'm not saying you should ltb but he needs to see this is all ridiculous and quite frankly you just don't need your dd taking on their approach/attitude to life and situations. Which she will do if she keeps spending all day with them. She would be better off in childcare. If he is at his mothers he has no reason not to complete his degree. It's like he has flown the best but is still attached to the apron strings!

Be strong. They will try to break you when you tell him to go.

then leave them to it. live your own life and don't be sucked into their abnormal world any longer, this is your life op.

repeat-they are wrong

over and over.

cos they are. believe in yourself and your convictions op.

*nest!

Quitelikely makes a good point, your dd will end up fucked up too, spending so much time with them.

I know you want him to change and come back to you having worked on himself so that you and your DD are not around his abusive behaviour.

So how about tell him (or even wrotong a letter) telling him you love him but he needs to change. Properly, properly change so that name calling and shoving isn't even on his radar when he feels frustrated.

If he refuses to admit he is abusive tell him that he'll have no problem telling his fellow students, his lecturers, his counsellor, etc all about his behaviour then. Explain to him that his mother is not the person he should be looking to when it comes to how he should behave.

Tell him he has to leave. And when you see real change (he is after all a grown man and has the ability to take steps to change whether he is around his mother or not) you can strt taking slow and gradual step to allow him back into your life.

*writing a letter.

Silly phone.