I am behaving awfully, I know.

[NotACinderella]

And I don't care very much.

I fear I've reached that point. There's so much s**t one can take.

I don't like it but it feels as if I haven't got it in me to do anything else. But I am saddened at this new me. I am saddened to have gotten to this point. I am saddened to make dh feel awful. (I know he did it to me but I fought against being the same).
I am saddened and scared to have reached the point where instead of looking at the boy behind the man, I look at the man that stands in front if me and, more to the point, at ME before them, iyswim.

I am Elsa hurting everyone, walking away up the mountain and building her fortress. (No wonder I cried everytime I watched that!).

What now?

This guy sounds hideous. Like some kind of throw back from the 1950's.

He's also totally inconsistent. He doesn't want you to work because "THINK OF THE CHILDREN" but at the same time, even though forcing you through emotional blackmail not to work, he doesn't even share his salary??

So in this scenario he gets full independence through both working full time and having full control over his salary, at the same time that he gets a full time child minder, house keeper and cook.

And what do you get out of this exactly? Nothing.

Even if this man isn't abusive (although he sure as hell sounds like a manipulative shithead), he is a TERRIBLE husband.

Just leave - you are going to drive yourself insane trying to fit into this mould of a perfect wife that he seems to have in his head.

Oh, hello.

I think you are me, and still married to my husband. You're my bad dreams at night.

And this is the hook, that keeps you in there:

"I am saddened to make dh feel awful. (I know he did it to me but I fought against being the same)."

By Lundy Bancroft's Why Does He Do That? Annoyingly, it is not available on Kindle, so you'll have to stash it somewhere. Whilst I'm not sure I agree with Lundy on everything, he does deal with men who believe themselves to be more entitled than the spouse, because he doesn't see marriage as an equal commitment.

If you choose to stay in your marriage, you can do. If you choose to leave you can do. He will say some dreadful things, and I suspect do some dreadful things in order to keep what's his, and gift you a few things for yourself. He will make you feel unreasonable for even considering your own needs. He will make you feel absolutely dreadful for putting your wants first.

Because, he is the one who determines how fulfilled you should be. And if you're not, you're ungrateful.

But you can't help your feelings. If you feel unsupported, unloved and unhappy, then you probably are.

I know because mine is divorcing me right now. He feels he deserves a better life than the one I can provide and I no longer deserve to be with him.

In that case, get yourself a SHL. If you're in my neck of the woods, I have a perfect recommendation for you.

Take care.

Thank you all for your insight and helpful advice.

At the moment I think I am ok. Kaykayblue and wellwhoknew has had it spot on. He is a trow back from the 50s and he does not even see that. And his attitude has certainly being emotionally abusive many times but I do not feel in danger or in need to start a war just yet. But you might know more than me so I keep your advices at hand in case it does go completely pear shaped.

I am quite buoiant actually because something snapped: although I still care about him I clearly care more about me. And it is a good place to be.

Will keep you updated.

What's a SHL? I must know...

shit hot lawyer? :)

Shit Hot Lawyer indeed.

Be careful what you wish for.
Life can change in an instant.
I know.
The rug was pulled from under us financially.
Health issues.
Be grateful.
Sorry if it is no help.
I used to worry about 'little things',not realising what was around the corner.

It is indeed a good place to be. :) You actually stop being affected by it so much and see him clearly for what he is.

For me it started the process of leaving exH, but it also lead to him trying to find other ways to control me, and that included DV.

You may not be scared, but he does have the potential to get nasty when his usual tactics don't work. They may involve further financial control, emotional blackmail, but may even get to physical threats or include sexual aspects. And particularly when you decide to leave.
He might get a shock and become different, though, who knows, but probably only if he realises that he will lose it all if you leave.

As for little and big things, when shit happens being in a bad relationship can easily make it worse than it could be.

Yes listen to Lweji. If he gets wind that you are not toeing the line, he might start to get nasty. Be careful...

Im there. Years and years of low level and high level shit. On paper and to the neighbours all good, nice house, nice holidays, lots of fun times. And then the controlling, the telling me I'm ungrateful and unsupportive and do you know how much I've spent on you in the last 15 yrs? Ive been doing an intensive retraining, before I worked for his business, 3 dcs. And then he had a massive blow up at me on the way to a family lunch and left me on the side of the road and i said enough. And I'm breaking everyones heart and destroying the family and all because i won't try anymore. Because I'm done, exhausted done done done. So I'm sending you love and strength and welcome to the shift from others to self. Scary but could be the start of the life you meant to have.xxx

You are not behaving awfully, rather awesomely. That he cannot see your power and strength as evidenced by the sheer poetry of your wording ... well, he's so about to be relegated to the back line *heh

I'm not making light of what is going to be a rough ride; just tipping my hat to a woman who knows where she is is going. Get advice, get what you need, make your plans and find/create your own Breathing Space ...

Yes, it will be hard if you want to leave, but if you plan it carefully you can do it and you will be ok.

Do contact women's aid. Remember that they are not only for battered women, but any woman who finds it difficult to leave.
They know that financial and emotional abuse can be as bad as dv and that it may actually make it more difficult to leave.

You deserve to be in control of your life.

Mumontherun I know exactly where you are. exactly.

Tipsy thank you. Tbh I think he knows my power and strength, he did like me because of this, and still does in some ways, but when it didn't suit him he squashed it. Obviously Very proud of my strength when needed.

The difference from all other times is this, when my mind goes to the "ahh what about the kids, the garden, the house, the plans, the history etc" something in my brain stops these thoughts immediately and replaces it with those shitty episodes where my sould was repeatedly destroyed. I seem to be keeping focused.

Don't feel great about badmouthing but I have to see it as a therapeutic session.

Interesting that you consider this badmouthing.

You don't often complain about your husband, do you?

You know that abusers thrive on secrecy. Such as you wouln't complain about not having access to money, or you'd find out most couples do share it.

Lweji, actually I do complain rather a lot. Or better, I happily talk about the problems I face/faced, the arguments, his attitude etc. i have absolutely no problems and feel proud of that I do. I talk about all this in rl too. many bored friends later...

I do not believe in secrecy as it harbours shame and imo there's no shame in arguing, separation, divorce, and many other situations.

I feel more unconfirtable here only because no one knows dh and from my edited version he def sounds a dickhead. He undoubtedly often is and has been Abut I, and people in rl, know that he is also many other things (this doesnot make the other invalid I know or me not calling quits) so it feels slightly unfair.

And plus you're all on my side...

Ah, ok.
You just reminded me of my friend who does talk a lot about her problems, including dv. But she won't leave.

It's good that you tallk to people in real life, but beware that if they know him they may not want to stir the boat. Most people assume he can be reasoned with.
At least with my friend, there are those who haven't heard the whole story and think it's just normal couple's problems or have despaired because she hasn't left yet.

I don't think people here think he's a monster. Ha may well be able to change if you get up and leave.

But he may not.
I'd act in the safest possible way, although if you got up and left he would probably be too shocked to react.

You also don't seem too broken at the moment, but it may get to a stage where you will be and it will be much harder to leave.

You can arm yourself with legal and financial advice, with a practical plan and implement it. You can set your own boundaries and make it clear that you are ready to walk out the minute he crosses them. No arguments.
It can go two ways, but in both you are likely to be happier than you are now.

It's interesting that you feel you don't have the right to 'badmouth', he's got you well-trained. The idea that he's a 50s throwback is a tad disingenuous given that many, perhaps even most, husbands didn't behave the way he does even then.

I've no doubt he has some good qualities, if he didn't you wouldn't be with him, so actually that's taken as read. But it's not these elements that are causing a problems, it's the negative aspects you need to discuss, and unfortunately they are serious enough to undermine the entire relationship, even destroy it.

I wouldn't take the fact that he has never got physical as any kind of guarantee. You simply cannot tell which abusive men will kick off when their authority and control is questioned, including guys who have never got physical before. If the partner submitted without it, there was no need for it. Too many women don't realise what danger they're in until then end up in hospital. Even if he doesn't resort to violence, he may intensify other aspects such as emotional or financial abuse, threats etc.

I understand that it feels like a positive step to decide to stand up to him, but bear in mind that with an abusive man, this may simply be red rag to a bull. Instead of being impressed with your new-found strength and confidence, he may simply fear his control and domination slipping & punish you for it.

The thing is that leaving your husband, family as you know it, home, lifestyle and everything else is incredibly, absolutely, fundamentally heartachingly hard difficult and awful. Only you know whether you are in danger - i don't get that from your posts - this isn't about how abusive he is or not, but where your line in the sand is. This has been the worst, worst thing i have had to do. Because like it or not my H is not a terrible person or an abuser - who i am in his mind is a real problem. I love him, he loves me but this marriage has been crushing me as I am not allowed to be who i am. Because of H's and my particular dynamic - it is too hard. You don't have to fabricate this whole abusive man thing - I know some people here have had horrendous experiences with abuse and they have done amazingly well to escape that and I know we can't predict how every person is going to react but Im not sure this is appropriate? May be wrong. I think what I'm trying to say is that you are allowed to leave just because it is not working for you, you are unhappy, you feel like you have been squashed into a half a person. Not only because you are in an abusive relationship. It actually makes it even harder, my H did not have an affair, a lot of the time he is really nice, the other shit doesn't happen all the time but on balance i have to leave and that is the right think for ME. Best of luck with this decision - it is normal (I hope) to second guess yourself and swing from certainty to uncertainty. XX

Thank you all for still checking up on me. Twinklestein it is not that I don't feel I haven't got the rights, I bekieve it is perfectly right to vent and speak out. I would expect dh to do the same. I don't feel trained by him at all in this aspect.

mumontherun put it better than I could. I feel unconfortable with "the fabrication of this abusive man thing" at alevel that is not applicable here terms of dv and me being at risk (maybe it will, who knows). I hear what you are saying and I do appreciate it immensely for I will certainly keep and eye and know where to go if it gets that bad but right now I am not scared one bit of dh's reaction. He will be angry and say awful and hurtful things. He will try to make me feel guilty and selfish. but that is as far as it will go.

Also as mumontherun says I do not want to think at those scenarios because I want to think and believe that I have the right and strength to leave for a lot less. I can say this is not good for me eventhough you have done lots of nice things to me and for me, eventhough we have great times sometimes, eventhough taken me away for the weekend, eventhough you are a great father, eventhough you'll be fairer with me once I am just the mother of your children, eventhough you love my mum and family, eventhough you have been very generous to the, eventhough you never laid a finger on me, stopped me from seeing friends etc.

I want to leave because I am not myself in this relationship. I don't want even to think about all the things he has done or not done.
Maybe we were never as good a match as we thought and we brought out some awful parts of ourself. I want to concentrate on this.
I could leave even if I was married to a very considerate man. If he did not make me happy I could say so.

Because tbh all the above is what it has kept me till now "he is a good man" "they all have their things" etc. coming from him at time but also coming from my own head, my own childhood, my own father. I have to fight this voice in my head that says "who are you to want better than this? How dare you ask for more. You should be grateful!". And to be fair I had that voice in my head before dh, he latched on it of course, especially when he saw that it worked.

It could well be that he gets angrier when it doesn't work, it could well be that he doesn't, that he gives up too realising he is not that happy either. (Best scenarion imo). What I fear the most is if he says "you are right lets try again" because it is not a matter of trying. We just don't get it.

I am not justifying him or anything. I am trying to be fair and analytical, i feel that is the only way to get a good giew and get out.

I also take your point re not all men in the 50s were like that. However generally the ideas re marriage were of this type. i am not trying to justify his behaviour do not worry: it wasn't right then as much as it is not right now. Simone de beauvoire managed quite a life then. It was more to describe the type. He is copying his dad's attitude. We've had many discussion about that. He cannot see that it did not work for his parents in terms of happiness (as it didn't work for mine) but instead of changing it he is set on recreating it. He is looking at it from the child he was perespective, I am looking from my mum's one.

It is not my problem anymore. I hope.

Atm we are not talking. I can see he is angry. I hope he'll come to the conclusion that it is too hard and painful for all involved.
If he goes mad I'll feel as if I have picked the "go out of jain card" tbh.
The problem arises if he wants to make it work...

Atm I hope for as little interaction as possible. It is well nice. I am dreading the weekend: more chances to talk.

I will keep you updated.

(Sorry for the length! Haven't got time to read it so apologies in advance for mistakes of any kind.)

Mumontherun I know exactly how you feel.

He will be angry and say awful and hurtful things. He will try to make me feel guilty and selfish. but that is as far as it will go.

Abuse doesn't mean that you have to be scared of him.
What you describe right there is emotional abuse. It can be worse than physical abuse in some ways.
You do remind me of me, because I put up with years of somewhat similar behaviour. But I could cope. Except I cried a lot and it was a roller coaster. I felt sad and unloved.
I haven't cried like that essentially since I left him. Just with movies and TV.

It's great that you do seem strong enough and aware enough. However, you are at risk of wasting your best years with this man.

One last thing: i have seen plenty of friends getting so close to leaving, already with a smile and pimms on their hand looking at the new life ahead) only to be pulled back in by promises and apologies etc.
no cases of dv or abuse, just perfectly normal unhappy and unhealthy marriages. And now I see them happy and united on the outside, walking in the park, the woman partially happy the kids are stable, but I see the pain of having sacrificed half of herself. (The husband has sacrificed nothing! Maybe he is now bringing her a cuppa in bed on sunday). Tis sooo sad.

I do not want that. I do not want to teach that to my dc: that you only leave if your dh is really bad. I want them to know that you can leave even if and when the children are happy. Because by the time the children are unhappy you have almost disintegrate completely. And sometimes, if you are very good the children are never unhappy... And forever you are stuck in a phony marriage and your children will try and recreate one (as per dh).

Many women, and men, believe that you need BIG reasons to "split afamily" (I do not even agree with this sentence as family to me means something bigger than four people sharing a house. Imo our family will be a family regardless to were the parents live. You can only split a family when you stop contact. My dh will never do that.). I am not of this opinion. My dh is. As nobody wants the children to be sad it is easy to be reined in using this argument, which society reinforces it all the time.

Very last thing: lweji, interestingly I have stopped momentarily to vent in rl, because I have realised that sometimes your friends would tell you similar problem they have with their dh and then you feel all in the sane boat and think "oh well that's the life in 2014." Sod that. I want to live the way I want so I don't want to hear their opinion right now. I want to listen to myself and to you lovely helpful mn because you are more ruthless and take no shit!

(I really have to go now!

It is def emotional abuse. No doubt about that.

I thought I'd wasted years but have two wonderful dc to show for and a great lesson learnt, which will turn useful for the future.

I don't want to fix this, I want freeeedom!!! I am looking ahead. I am just planning my moves. I used to be in a super rush in the past, because I wasn't so sure. I think I am now.

With your help too.

Lveji tell me about your situation. How was it and where are you now?

Tbh I can see a flaw in my plan: waiting for him to take tge decision. I know I'll have to do it. Gathering stregth.

Just wanted to add a message of support and point out one small but very important thing.

I am a SAHM at the moment for complicated reasons to do with DCs.

My DH doesn't share his money with me because it isn't his money. From the very second it lands in his account, it is our money and we decide together how it is spent.

The salary your DH earns is no more his than the milk in your fridge is his. It is yours and his jointly as is whatever is in the other accounts.

He has no right to decide what proportion of it he is willing to share with you.

Goldmantra you are right. But I know that. I took that for granted.

In my op all the money coming is our as much as the children are both ours despite who spend the most time with them! This is the counterargument I've been using to point out the unfairness of his ways.

I argued and fought from day one regarfing this point: that he does not give me his money, he does not share the money with me, it is our money! Earned throught him going to work and me looking after the children so that he can work and not pay for s ft nanny.