DP's jealousy and controlling behaviour is pushing me away. (long, sorry)

[ohmygodjustgivemeausername]

NC'd as you can probably tell.

So my DP of four years is being a completely unpredictable monster at the moment.
I'm certain he has some kind of bipolar as his moods are all over the place. He's already on citalopram but it's not having any effect apparently.
I don't want to make him sound like a total bastard but quite frankly, that's what he's being at the moment.

He's always been quite an insecure person but never on this level.
It all started when we moved in to our new house last year.
Before we moved I never really socialised as I was busy with our two DC ( now
three and nineteen months) and the area was rough to say the least so I didn't go out.
We moved to a lovely area in the countryside and I've felt so much happier here,
Made lots of friends, my mum lives a few doors away etc etc so I actually have a social life now.

We also have a male mutual friend who we see a lot, he knows the whole family, has a child the same age as my eldest and they get on so well, so we meet up a lot while DP is at work too. (He lives a few houses away) He's a good friend to all of us and when we moved here I imagined We'd make mutual friends anyway, but DP has such a massive problem with him although gets on with him really well when he sees him. We have talked about it on many occasions, I have constantly reassured him that this friend is just that and that I would never cheat on him (which I wouldn't dream of) I've even offered to stop seeing him but DP says not to, and that he'll stop getting funny about it etc. But it just seems to be getting worse.
I can't go out for the day without him getting pissed off, he wants to know every little detail of every day and if God forbid I miss something out he'll have a go at me for "keeping secrets", I can't pick my phone up without him asking me what I'm doing, he's really forceful when we hug/kiss, sexual relationship isn't bad but often it happens because he won't take no for an answer so I just give in. I can't share anything on Facebook without it being questioned, I can't get new clothes or dye my hair without him thinking it's to impress other men, if I miss a call from him he starts messaging me asking where I am, I can't even go into a different part of the house without him looking for me.
He's constantly looking for reassurance and if he doesn't get it he gets stroppy and unreasonable, and he can't contain his bad moods in front of the kids either despite the fact I've asked him over and over not to get angry in front of them.
I'm walking on eggshells even though I've done nothing to jeopardize our relationship, it's all in his head and although I do understand to a degree, the fact that this friend is like a brother to me and is meant to be one of DP's best friends (they have gaming days and everything) I don't get why he gets so worried and jealous. He doesn't like the fact that I do things without him (can't be helped considering he works full time) and I need to live my life without feeling guilty.
We're in the middle of arranging our wedding for next year (I've even blabbed on about it to this friend) but at the moment I don't particularly want to marry him. He's being selfish, not considering the DC's feelings when he flies off the handle, always expecting everything and everyone to revolve around him and I just wish he would grow up and stop overthinking everything. He's just pushing me away with his attitude, I feel a bit like a prisoner in my own home and I really don't know what to do to help him.

What do I do?? I do love him, and if he could just relax and be happy in the knowledge that I'm with him, have two DC with him, a house etc then he'd realise there's nothing to worry about, but no matter how much I try and reassure him, it's never enough.

He uses the behaviour of his ex as an excuse to punish you? You say you know this ex - have you heard her side from her? Because I suspect if you leave, he will tell the next girl you cheated on him with your friend.

And then that will be his reason to punish the next girl...

He's punishing you for being 'more than friends' with his best mate, but continues to socialise frequently the man, and never mentions to him the fact he thinks the pair of you are up to something?

What would happen if the next time he throws the accusation at you, you say 'right we are going down the street to X's house and we will have it out right now in front of him (and his wife), and you can ask him to his face if he's cheating with me'? I am pretty certain that he won't do it as he doesn't really believe.

He's using secrecy as a powerful weapon don't you think? As long as the accusations are between the two of you, he gets to continue to act in an abusive manner.

What you're all saying does make a lot of sense.
I'm sorry, it's all just a big shock to me as I never placed him in the abuser category,
So forgive me, I'm just trying to come to terms with it.

Yes he is indeed able to control his emotions around others, so much so
that our friend is completely oblivious to all the trouble 'he' has caused.
The reason I said he's like a brother to me is that I do not see him in a sexual way whatsoever.

I knew his ex very well, I met him through her before they were together.
Their relationship lasted for four years and I remained friends with both of them throughout so I heard her side plenty of times.
She's gay. She is now living with another woman.

I just don't know what to do now.

Of course this a big shock. Because you are a nice, normal, decent person (with normal flaws, like the rest of us), who loves her OH and wants to be nice to him, it's hard to understand or accept what he's doing, and to come to terms with it,because you presume others will be normal and decent too. But keep on remembering that the keys to understanding if something is abuse are:
Does he act like this to others, or does he choose not to? If yes, then it's abuse, because he is then choosing to do that to you.

Would you do and say the same/similar things to him, or anyone else, in the same circumstances? Is this behaviour how the majority of couple act towards each other? If no, then it is abuse. Depression, stress, whatever, are not reasons for abusiveness. Abusiveness is the reason for abusiveness.

Does this behaviour make you feel sad, worried, guilty, scared (not nec. physically), like you're somehow to blame, even though you know you're not? Do you find yourself reassuring him, trying but failing to placate him, to make him 'see the light'? Are you scared to do what you want, even though you know it's something completely normal and reasonable (and even if you still go ahead and do it)? Do you find yourself altering your actions, behaviour, words, choices, plans, lifestyle, etc., so as to try to minimise or stop him getting angry, hurtful, rude, negative, suspicious, and so on? If yes, this is not normal and you are being abused.

Does he ever accept genuinely that he has behaved or spoken horribly or unreasonably to you? Does he take responsibility for his own actions? Does he apologise - and if he does, is it a proper apology, eg no "I'm sorry
I said X, BUT... ", or trying to find an excuse as to why it wasn't his fault? If so, this is not genuine remorse or understanding of what he's done wrong, it's just him begrudgingly doing what he knows he's expected to do to shut you up, and is a classic abuse sign).

There's more, but these are the main ones to keep thinking about.

All abusers are nice, when things are going their way, and when it suits them to be. They can even be wonderful, and amazing, but this is the flipside of their unbalanced, damaging and damaged side, and the odd glimmer of wonderfulness does not make up for abuse, ever. Abusers also tend to go for feisty women, which is why so many women who are abused have a hard time seeing themselves as someone who has been abused.

Oxford - Your post is incredibly helpful. Thank you.

I don't treat him the same, obviously.
I completely recognise his behaviour is not normal, he has had outbursts around my family a few times but it's never aimed at them, it's always aimed at me, because the jealousy comes out in different ways, it affects other areas of his life so he gets irritated very easily over the most ridiculous things.
But it's always my fault even though he says it never is, he still thinks it is.

I always worry how my actions will affect him. Always.
No matter what it is I do, I always hope it won't upset him.
So yes, I have altered my lifestyle (not to the extreme, I always considered myself very lucky to have the life I do, and felt very settled and content, but have definitely altered it in the emotional sense, the things I say etc)

He always says sorry. Wether it's genuine, I don't know.
He always 'seems' remorseful and as I said before, when I talk to him reasonably and try and reassure him he ends up crying on me because 'he feels so awful about it'.
I've always thought he's very dramatic in these situations but put it down to it just being the way he is. He always has a reason though, he always blames his behaviour on something or someone else.

I always thought I was rather good at standing up for myself,
Everyone says I have him 'well trained' and that he's a keeper etc etc, but I suppose he's just very clever at making it look like he has normal problems that allow him to be the way he is.

The thing that I'm so upset about, is that I am so against abuse in any form,
So against women being mistreated, (my dad abused my mum) but I've failed to see the signs and I feel like a mug. What's worse is I feel too scared to do anything about it. A huge part of me still thinks you're all wrong and that it's just depression,
I mean how long do I give it until I try and talk to him? I don't want to ruin our family but I don't want to be with someone who's going to damage us all either.

Hi OP, my dad was like this with my mum, and his children, my siblings and I. My mum got questioned on arrival at home from work every day. This could last up to an hour with her having to account for every minute, shop she went in etc. He stopped her from wearing make-up or nice clothes and accused her of trying to have sex with every man she came into contact with, from friends dads to his own brother. It was awful and he never got any better. There are many parallels to to your op, except he didn't express a desire to change. However i would take that with a pinch of salt. Anyway it was awful for my mum and left her a shell. Awful for us too.

I have just got one piece of advice. Do not marry this guy!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SnowinBerlin - Exactly

Even the crying is about him, about how awful HE feels, not about how awful he has made you feel...

how long do I give it until I try and talk to him

This is the man you love and are going to marry, OP - if he was the right man to be with, you wouldn't be tiptoeing around wondering when its best to speak to him

Depression and abuse are not linked

You don't TRY to talk him.
Just tell him.

You aren't happy. His behaviour is abusive.
Does he want to save your relationship and if he does what is he going to about his abusive ways?

His response to that will be all you need to know.
If it's tears again then nothing will change.
If he wants to sit down and understand what he is doing and how it's making you feel then that's a good sign.
But then he must put forward suggestions on how he can sort himself out.
Then he has to carry them through.

YOU cannot fix HIM!
He has to fix himself. It's very rare abusers do or can.

Ok. I had it out with him. By accident I'll admit - I was upset anyway and it just all came out.

I told him he is emotionally abusing me which of course he denied.

Perhaps I shouldn't have said it so bluntly but I needed him to know.
I said his behaviour is affecting all of us, and I've repeated many things that have been said on this thread - that he never owns up to anything he does, that I am constantly careful of what I say and do because of his reaction, that the kids are absorbing everything and I don't want them growing up in this environment, learning bad habits, mistreating others etc.
That I feel he's trying to control me and doesn't show me any respect,
That's he's too full on physically, that he does little things to upset me,
and that he's selfish and never looks at the bigger picture.

I said I can't live like this anymore and that I don't want to be with him.
He then threatened to take DS with him if I was kicking him out, (because he knew it would upset me) and then he said,
"Now you can have -male friend- over all the time and you two can be really happy"
Which pissed me off. A lot.

Then he stormed off again and when he came back he said he wasn't going anywhere because he loves us and he doesn't want to hurt us, that's never his intention.
He said he wants me to tell him every time he does something that upsets me so he can sort it out. I said no because I'm not responsible for fixing him and that he's the only one who can change his behaviour and I shouldn't have to tell him what to do or what not to do all the time, (I've already got two kids and I don't need another one.)

He said he will do everything he can to change all these things, he doesn't want to lose us, that I should feel I can live my life without feeling on edge and see who I like.

I don't know what to make of it to be honest. I was far too soft on him, I cried and we cuddled etc which I really didn't want to do, I even told him not to come near me because I knew that would happen. I don't know if he's just saying these things to placate me or if he means them.

But I spoke to him. I got it all out there and I said he's got one more chance. Which I will follow through with if he blows it.

Do NOT get yourself roped into playing "policeman" for his behaviour. This "you tell me when I'm out of line" quickly dissolves into you saying something and him going off at you. Been there, done that. You are absolutely right that it is HIS responsibility to change his behaviour.

If he's all freaked out about this friend of his, maybe it's time to bring said friend over and get it all out in the open in front of your DP. Make him see how incredibly foolish and damaging his behaviour about this friend really is.

How many chances has this person already blown?.

I have to look at you though; why did you exactly give him yet another chance?. Examine your own reasons for doing that very carefully.

Attila is right - you need to examine your own part in this dynamic. You say your father abused your mother, and asked how you 've missed the signs when you thought you were so vigilant. Well, how you reacted to his latest egotistical drama (which is what all this wailing and gnashing of teeth and rash promises, etc., is) is key to understanding.

You are probably very vigilant to the exact type of obvious abuse that your father perpetrated against your mother, but this has actually done two things: made you unconsciously believe that only that specific type of abuse is abuse, and yourself very vulnerable to falling prey to other types of abuse.

It's not hard to identify something as abuse when it is very obvious: hitting, raging, saying horrible things, etc., but it's the whole pervasive atmosphere, the dynamic created within a family where there is abuse present that actually does the real damage to the children. The anger, the resentment, the bizarre and unreasonable behaviour and attitude, the privilege, the entitlement, the unpredictability of the father, the fear,the anxiety, the confusion, the resentment, the desperation to placate, the denying, the rationalising, the excusing, the minimising of the mother. The children having to hold opposing beliefs and feelings within themselves, and try to rationalise them: I love my Daddy but I hate him/am scared of him. My Daddy is the best/my Daddy is scary/nasty/mean/hurts mummy/says horrid things, and so on. The child learning every single day that men abuse and women are abused, and hearing constant excuses and reasons. Being taught to alter your behaviour to please him and ward off abuse. Trying to stop him abusing Mummy. Thinking it's your fault, thinking there is something you could do to stop it, if only you were a better child. Seeing the extreme highs and lows, the drama, the gushy false promises, the grand gestures, the apparent passion, and believing this is real love. And so much more.

Everyday, a child in a home where is a abuse learns that abuse is normal, that they should be abusive or accept abuse when they grow up, that they are responsible for the feelings and behaviours of others, and that true love is all about these grand flourishes and dramatic moments, and only they can understand or be understood by a victim or perpetrator.

And that's what your normal was, and that's what you unconsciously learned, and that's why you've been denying and minimising and excusing his abuse, seeing him as your great love, and giving him second chances.

Now think about what this doing to your own children, when it did that to you.

So still no consequences for him then?
What is he going to do about it?
He can't just change - that's not possible.
So what is HE actually putting into place to sort this out?

As the saying goes:-
If you don't get on the carousel, you won't go round in circles

Time to step off - nothing is going to change here.

I understand what you're saying, I do.
It's just very hard to jump in head first and cut him off straight away.
I want to know if he can change his behaviour, now he knows how I feel he might genuinely try. I know it probably sounds naive and cowardly but this is how I deal with things. Slowly.

I just want to see what he does, I've told him one more chance - that could only last a day but at least I'll know either way wether he's able to change or not.

You need to read and re-read OxfordBags post very carefully.

If you deal with problems this slowly he will use that against you as well. Sometimes like now, decisive and swift action is needed and called for.

You're basically still burying your head in the sand because the alternative i.e giving this man his marching orders never to return is too frightening for you to actually contemplate. Fear of him and his potential reaction keeps you within this as much as anything else.

It is hard enough to even change one ingrained aspect of your own behaviour, asking someone else to change those is an exercise in absolute futility. It simply does not work and you can never act as either a rescuer and or saviour in a relationship.

Why even give this person another day to try and prove himself when you already know deep down he will not change.

Do you have any friends you could talk to about this, OP? Does your mum know about the situation?

My mum knows, I'm very open with her.

She said I need to do what feels right, basically.

Did your father change, OP? Do you know that the success rate for abusers to change even slightly, and even with a lifetime of intensive therapy is incredibly, incredibly low?

The only problem with following your mum's advice is that you grew up in a home where domestic abuse was the norm, so what feels right to you may not actually be what is best for you or your DC.

Talking of your DC, you do not have the luxury of doing things slowly when they are involved. Every day you dither or do nothing because doing what's necessary is hard, you sacrifice their needs and emotions. I'm sorry to be so harsh, but as someone with a childhood of normalised abuse, you are paradoxically not the best person to understand the urgency of getting them out of that environment. Your loyalty is to them, not to him getting yet another chance.

He seems to genuinely want to change.
He's spoken to our friend about it, apologised to him for being ridiculous,
so now it's out in the open and he can't hide what's going on.
Over the last couple of days he has really backed off, he hasn't bugged me for sex,
hasn't smothered me at all, we've been talking through everything,
He says he doesn't want this jealousy to take over our lives, that me telling him to leave was the shock he needed.

I keep saying this is the last chance to change things, that he really has to work on his reactions to things and he needs to form new habits, to be more relaxed etc
and he is trying. I know he is. He has accepted counseling and has said it's not my fault, or anybody else's, it's his problem and he needs to sort it.

He doesn't want to be apart from us. He knows I've had enough and won't accept any more of his ridiculous behaviour.

I know people don't change, but people can learn to control how they deal with their feelings and to not project their problems onto others, and to see things in a different light. (I've done it, I've changed a lot since we first got together) Yes it takes time, but he's making the effort to begin that journey.

I've told him he needs to stop being so selfish and think of others first, especially the kids. I keep reinforcing that and he's taking it all on board.

Like I said, he's an intelligent person. He knows he needs to change his behaviour,
or he will lose everything. I feel more in control now and I feel strong enough that if things do fall apart again, I won't hesitate to kick him out and he knows that.

It's your call if you want to give him another chance. I'm not going to judge on that. Were you present when he spoke to his friend and apologised?

Just remember that once you've made the ultimatum, if you don't stick to it, you've lost all credibility. So if he returns to that behaviour, you need to take action.

I was there when he spoke to him, we both told DP that we don't see each other in 'that way' at all and that he has nothing to worry about.
He seems a lot happier now and of course if he does anything to upset me he will be out of the door and he knows that.

I'm not going to let him do it anymore.
I found the courage to get it all out and make that first step which I didn't think I would,
And I owe that to all of you, I will now sort out a plan b if I do have to leave him as there's a lot to think about (house, bills, kids, family etc etc)

For now I'll see how it goes. Don't get me wrong, I'm not pinning my hopes on it all working out happily ever after, I'm not like that. I know it might not last and I know I have to follow through with everything I've said - but I know people can overcome certain problems and hangups and I hope he manages to do it because as I've said from the start, I do love him and we've all got our faults, it's just a matter of dealing with them and controlling them so they don't affect others.

Anyway, I've postponed the marriage. I said we can't get married unless he is on an even keel and has been for a good amount of time. We were due to get married next year but I don't want to rush into it, so it's off for the foreseeable future.