Agressive parenting (originally posted in children's behaviour).

[SW8workingmum]

Hi, I am in a bit of a corner. 2 lovely children but the oldest boy is in trouble at school and interacts in a domineering way with his peers. I work full time so am not there for pick up and homework, have a nice aupair. His father loves them however he has no patience and shouts at them all the time. My son is always picking fights with his younger sister - normal stuff, but is it? The weekend before last his father reacted to this aggression by shouting that he would smash his face in if he carried on. To be honest this is extreme but I was absolutely horrified. How can a child grow up with the right messages with parenting like this? This morning he was telling my son that he was stupid for not trying harder with his spelling. (by the way he is not very nice to me either). I don't know how to handle it to be frank. Husband not an evil person but very needy and difficult. Feeling very ground down by it.

This site is quite full-on, wow.
Finances are ok, I work.

It's very helpful to hear your objective views, I can tell you though that I am no angel and I give it back, not that I want to, I am more the sort that doesn't like injustice. My stepson I might add is balanced and kind and really nice but then he didn't live with him from a very early age.

The other thing I worry about is being able to cope. I worry that I would not be able to stay calm and not lose my temper with the children what with the stress of running a business and looking after them without any support.
I don't know any divorced people, I don't know who to talk to about it amongst my friends. This is half the problem.
This is apart from the fall-out that would happen by leaving and the anger that would be directed at me from my husband.
Also I don't want to destroy his life.

Does anyone know any professional marriage guidance establishments in London that might be able to help? Not Relate.

Yes, DSS is fine, and that is probably because his DM got him away from his father.
Your son is not fine. And neither is your daughter.
They are living with an aggressive bully and already DS is starting to mimic him. it is not too late for DS, but you need to act in order to protect your children and stop perpetrating this pattern of behaviour.
Also, I don't think there is any doubt your husband is a crap partner and an absolutely lousy father who is screwing up his kids. And that definitely makes him a "bad man" in my book.
You have a chance to let your children grow up without fear - please take it.

The ex-wife wouldn't speak to me when we first got together - long time ago now, I kind of wish I could get her side of why they split up - I expect much the same as with me but it would help such a lot.

Nobody thinks they will cope with divorce. It is horrible and life-changing and that is scary.
But guess what - we all cope. We build new lives and in the process realise how awful things were. You have a clear choice - you can continue the way things are (because I honestly do not think your DH will change, no matter what type of counselling you go to) or you can chose the life you want for yourself and your children.
It's a bit concerning that you seem to be more worried about the effect divorce might have on a grown man than about the effect his aggression is already having on your children. You need to put them first, and your husband second. this is probably going against all that you are accustomed to, because he insists his needs are put first and you've gone to great lengths to try to explain why it isn't really his fault, and that he isn't really that bad.
Except it is his fault. A normal father would be horrified if he ever behaved life your DH did towards your son. there is no excuse in the world for doing that to a 7 year old. None.

It might provide some further insight, but would it really "help" to know that, for example, she left because he was as crap to her son as he is to yours? You have to make the best decisions for your children based on what is happening now.
You do not need outside justification for leaving him - he has given you far too many examples of why staying with him is a huge mistake.

It's a vicious cycle though, I have really lost my temper with my son a few times over the years - basically for hurting his sister (he has got better lately thank goodness), I doubt it would be like that at all if husband was a gentler sort of person. It's been such hard work I can't tell you. sometimes I look back on the early days and really don't know how I coped.
As I say I am not perfect, I do shout at the children now and again - thankfully it's only a couple of times a month probably now - perhaps less but I hate myself for it, I don't think it bothers them too much though.
I remember his father who was a bit of a bully but a weak man too, telling me that he was rather amazed that I wanted to marry my husband. I was a bit shocked by that - I thought it was disloyal of him but husband will not hear a bad thing against his father.

My husband by the way has never really hit the children - one or 2 smacks - at least that I have seem - I suppose there could be more although I don't think it's the sort of thing he would do, it's the shouting at them and the belittling of my son that is my concern, but he would say that he doesn't do it.
He's a very manipulative person - I am not.

YOu know why DS is behaving like that with DD - he is modelling the behaviour he's seen from his father, because that is how men behave in his eyes. Please, help both your children to live normal lives where violence and aggression are not the norm.
And don't beat yourself up for losing your temper - we've all been there! You sound really stressed, and no wonder with your husband leaving everything to you. Again - is this behaviour you want your DCs to think is normal - that men only work at their jobs and everything else is up to the woman?
The threat of violence is as disturbing and mentally scarring as physical violence is painful. Both are terrible. Can you guarantee your DH won't really blow his top with DS one day and actually "smash his face in"? That phrase alone sends shivers down my spine and I cannot image any adult saying that to a small boy, far less a father to his son.

Husband wouldn't physically hurt DS.

I didn't think mine would either. Until he did. Before that he was doing exactly what you say yours is doing.

you're minimizing your H's behaviour - 'he has never really hit the children' - is that meant to be something to be applauded, in this situation?

I would not be in the same house as someone who threatened to smash my child's face in. You need to get out before he actually does that. Or get your children out. He has made a very direct threat to your son. Would you stand for that if it was a stranger? Or would you have called the police and taken your children as far away as you could from him?

I would also not allow him unaccompanied access either.

You need to speak to someone who can help you - women's aid? SS?

but he has already - he's smacked them. Hit them, to use the correct words.

Humm, this is making me a bit worried.
I want to talk to the ex-wife. This could help a lot.
Thanks everyone.
by the way my mother says that husband is a good father, but usually he is quite well behaved (husband) in my parents presence.

This has got nothing to do with your mother. And it has nothing to do with the ex-wife either.
It is about you and your children and the fact you realise this man is a threat to their mental and physical welfare. You are concerned enough to post here, everyone is telling you he's dangerous.
What happened in the past in his first marriage is irrelevant. You need to see the damage he is doing here and now. And suppose th exP told you the marriage broke up for X reason, which has nothing to do with your husband - would you use that as justification to sty with him and continue to let him abuse your son and instill in him a pattern of behaviour that is manifesting itself by DS abusing DD? Because that is what is happening.
Again, I'm sorry to be so harsh but this man is a danger to his children and they need your protection.

And if the ex doesn't talk to you, or they are divorced for a different reason? Will you still allow this man to abuse your children?

Your mother doesn't live with him. My family thought my stbxh was wonderful, but then he didn't go into a rage or shout and swear where they could hear either. He was careful not to do it front of family and friends, although he slipped up once and did it in front of one of my friends. She was horrified. And it was (in my experience) a pretty mild blow up. That put it in perspective pretty quickly.

Ltb. He is not making you or your children happy. And one day you'll die and this is all you'll have to look back on.
you're worried how you'll cope - but it sounds like he does nothing to help you now so it will be no different, just a less toxic atmosphere.

agree 100% with Katie - your mother and his ex-wife are irrelevant. You are focussing on things that don't matter, that won't make a jot of difference to your DC.

I would strongly suggest that you post on relationships, you will get good advice and support there. But you need to get your head around the fact that your DC's welfare is in your hands and that your H is not a good father (or husband, it sounds like).

Focus on that.

He has never really hit the children - this should read as: He HAS hit the children.

What degree of force does he have to use before it's proper hitting, op? Are we talking bruising, loudness of impact, degree of pain displayed by child? How are you measuring it, exactly?

Your mother is not married to him and even if she was, it wouldn't matter. You do not find the situation acceptable. You are allowed to state preferences in your own home and to take steps to prevent your children from being harmed. They are being harmed by this.

You say you don't want to destroy his life, but by staying you are risking damaging your children emotionally (as well as possibly physically).

Children gravitate to what they know. My parents were verbally and physically abusive. I have 3 sisters - ALL of us have been in abusive relationships and have struggled to break that cycle, because it's the relationship dynamic that we grew up with. It's familiar to us, and our boundaries are in a far different place than most people's are.

Look at the way he is acting towards the children. Shouting and screaming? Now think. If he'd done that to your child on the first day out together (in the dating stage), would you have dumped him on the spot? Most likely, right? So why is that behaviour acceptable now? If you feel that behaviour towards your child is unacceptable, shouldn't it ALWAYS be unacceptable, regardless of where you are in your relationship?

Stop making your children live with an abusive bully. Or all they will learn is that this is okay and they should tolerate it.

Hiding this thread now.

There are an awful lot of warning bells here and some of it sounds a lot like my relationship with my exH. For me now the treatment of the children and the selfishness would make me walk away without looking back. I was married for over twenty years so it took me a long time to see the light. I hope you don't take that long!

He was absolutely charming to everyone except us, so everyone thought he was lovely. He had no patience at home and occasionally used to scream at our oldest DS in very inappropriate terms. My DS was in trouble at school and at home for aggressive behaviour. The world had to revolve around exH and his moods and his constant need for adulation and entertainment. He was incredibly lazy and never did anything to help out (including never once getting up with the children when they were small). His right to sleep and his job (professional) were more important than mine despite the fact we did very similar jobs.

Like you I picked up all the slack and did everything. Then I found out that his selfishness meant that he had cheated throughout our relationship. He actually told me that he felt entitled to have me and the family at home and other women on the side so that he could have everything he wanted.

I divorced him for adultery but it is only now after some time has passed that I can see him clearly. Selfishness and entitlement are lifelong characteristics and they don't change. Life now is such a relief not having to work around him and his moods and demands all the time. I have so much more time! I parent the children in the way I want and I can't remember the last time DS was aggressive with his siblings or in trouble at school. In fact he is a lovely, calm, helpful boy. Interestingly I am much calmer too without exH to wind me up and stress me out.

I understand that it probably seems impossible at the moment to contemplate changing your family life, but perhaps you could at least start to think about the logistics, about what you want to change, about the positive and the negative things about your H and where your boundaries are.

I do think you need to put an immediate stop to the inappropriate behaviour at home and to the children though. That is an absolute fundamental and that is not about counselling or anything like that because you are just making excuses for a grown-up's bad behaviour. It is about calling him on his behaviour and saying "No more. That is final or you are out - non-negotiable" and mean it.

Thanks 3mum, this sounds similar to the level of the problems I am having although my husband wouldn't have the confidence to have an affair. He has been a bit better the past few days so everyone is in better spirits but you are right he is not going to change. I need to have a calm discussion with him when he is in a reasonable mood which I am not going to enjoy at all - it's always me by the way that tries to talk about the problems.

Well, that's because to him there is no problem - it's all fine as long as he's fine.

It's very unreasonable of you to go about creating problems, you know, op. That's probably how he sees your conversations.......