money stress is ruining my marriage...please give me advice

[bumbleandbumble]

Our lack of money and constant debt is killing us.
Please someone give me advice how to get through this.
Its being going down hill for 3 years...and now we are desperate. My husband refuses to go on benefits even though we would qualify, we argue all the time about money, I am always asking for more and he doesnt have it. He is super stressed and keeps saying the pressure is killing him. He comes home tired and not in the best moods usually. I cant sleep because I worry about losing our house, which makes me grumpy all day. My children are bored and it kills me that they beg me everyday to do all the things we used to normally do, museum days, ballet and gymnastics classes, pizza at a cafe...

I can't find a job that pays enough...and my husband and I seem to blame each other for not making enough...we have not had a single arguement in the last two years that was not about finances.
what to do??

Could you register as a childminder?that way no childcare costs and income for you.

Are you involved with the business? Your mention 'his' debts and 'your' debts. Are you absolutely clear cut that the whopping great debt is his only?

If you are and he won't allow you to see evidence you need to get legal advice now. If you're not, you need to ensure that this remains the case, sad to say.

I love my DP dearly and we've been together for longer than many marriages (11.5 years) and we will get married when we get round to it but I could not see me accepting any part of responsibility for that level of debt.

I'm assuming the large debt is non-mortgage, so forgive me if not. If non-mortgage, I cannot see how the debt is serviceable with a reasonably lifestyle without a vast income. Is £150k big money for you or can he make it up with monthly income? For me - and we are both higher rate taxpayers (albeit DP only just) - that is an enormous debt.

OP you used the phrase "my childcare costs" Is he expecting your wage to pay all of the childcare.

I second Step Change.
I know it's easier not to phone them, as he idea of consolidating all the info (especially with self employment rather than a salary) is daunting and not something you ever fancy doing.
But we rang them when things were desperate and it saved our marriage.

They made us realize that we were prioritizing paying the debts over our family's welfare. And we now have much more manageable payments.

Before I got married I found out my husband had 25k of debt, I found out the week before we got married!
That should have been a warning sign for me but I had also just found out I was pregnant.
I'm not sure what it envolves now but after we got married he went bankrupt it was our only option really and I think you may need to go there too. Its not easy but you can't go on like this.
My husband has slipped back into his old ways he can't get credit anymore well he hasn't anyway but he took on a lease to a building behind my back that he couldn't affored but thankfully someone out of the blue came to my home and asked if he was interested in letting it go he had no choice really.
Your husband sounds very stubbon and you need to tell him he either sorts it out or your gone, there is no shame in claiming tax credits or any other money you are entilted too. He prob doesn't want to seem like he's failed you but by carrying on like this he already has

I cant become a childminder. My house is in such a state that work would need to be completed in order for other children to be looked after here...which again we have no money for.

No he doesnt expect me to pay the childcare, but the end of the day, the money coming in needs to more than going out and I cant find a job that makes that happen. I would love to go to work and he stays home...but I have been looking for 6 months and it seems he is making slightly more than anything I can find...so thats why he is working.

he already declared one company bankrupt...a few years ago...but noting changed. we owe thames water, and british gas about £4,000...because he hasnt been paying them for 3 years which I only just discovered.
he has the debt from the car, unpaid company debts and credit debt, not to mention the debt that he owes to friends and family...some of which are coming after us.

I really feel for you. Money problems are so stressful and take such a toll on a relationship.

I echo the others who said firstly, you must get your husband to see that you have no option but to pursue benefits, and secondly, with your lack of income and these huge outstandings, you really might have to consider bankruptcy. How long will you have water and gas at this rate? Surely they will be looking to cut you off soon?

Hang in there, I know how hard this is.

I know I have to make him face the facts...but its hard. Every time I try to talk about it he gets defensive...because its like I am just pointing out his failures...
its also not helping that 90% of our friends seem to be doing amazing and cant understand why we never meet them at the pub or go to all these weddings and get togethers...it seems we are the only ones in this much trouble (I know not nationally, but in our groups of friends)

Bumble I don't understand why he would owe family and friends money but be too proud to claim tax credits/ benefits. People wouldn't know you were claiming benefits unless you told them. The street sees when a bailiff turns up at your door and friends will talk if you owe them money. Far more humiliating surely.

Makes me wonder why he doesn't want you to see his tax returns. Also do you have access to all of his bank accounts? Horrid to ask but is money going on something else? Gambling?

He is not gambling or spending money elsewhere. I do see some of his bank accounts.

I do and am worried that he has not declared certain things or that something is dodgy in his self employed tax return. He entered into a voluntary bankrupcy plan with the government that was suppose to help small business with his VAT bill, but even that he defaulted on because he wasnt making enough. He owes a lot of people...

Its just so hard. I want to help him and us get through this. I cannot just up and leave him just because he has made mistakes and we are broke. I wont be able to live with that...

I agree that he has no option but bankruptcy. I don't say that lightly, a couple of posters on here have thought they would have to declare, but from the detail in their posts, it didn't look like it was a necessity.

This situation is different, no debt plan will work with the debt that size and so little income.

I think your husband needs to accept that he's hopeless at running businesses and managing money & he must always work for someone else.

How about going to a financial advisor because then DH would have to come clean about what he owes.

I think you would be best off getting out of the marriage. I would call your husband's behaviour over finance abusive.
This business of his is clearly a wank - he sounds like one of those men who is too 'special' to work and would rather run up huge debts to feed his ego.

I agree with solid.

He's not allowing you to work your way out of this. Not claiming money you are entitled to and leaving your family in poverty to the tune of £200k of debt is financially abusive if you won't do anything to sort it out.

abusive? I find that term a little harsh.

I was trying to come on here to ask about getting through money problems and how that affects my relationship. I think we will have to declare personal bankrupt.

I am trying to save my marriage, not walk away from it because of my financial situation. I really hate how people on these forums always say "leave the bastard" as if it were something simple.

Thing is, Bumble, your financial problems have been cause entirely by your husband's behaviour, and he is actually preventing you from doing anything to fix them.
It sounds his ego is so important to him that no one else can be allowed to provide a solution to the problem. He is letting you and the children suffer when there are steps he could take to improve your situation. He is either entirely selfish or completely deluded.

Agree totally with SGB

I agree with solidgoldbrass too. You are in for a lifetime of pain if you continue in this way. Being hundreds of thousands of pounds in debt is no small mistake, it speaks of ongoing bad financial decision making. I would kick out any man who put my children at risk in this way, and find any job I could to support them myself. Yet another case for being financially independent in a relationship...

You asked for advice. You got it. Or did you just want sympathy? You can get that too, but it won't solve your problems.

The thing is the money thing may well as be an affair. He is lying, being deceptive and unwilling to lay all the cards on the table so you can deal with it. It's like he's had an affair and you're the only one willing to fix it. If only one of you is trying then how can the relationship / situation be saved?

He is trying by trying to find a better job, as am I....neither of us can find anything decent...or decent enough to even start to get out of debt.

So he hasnt been honest about his debt. He had even more when we got married that he has reduced to 200K...all of which I didnt know. I am upset about that...but I am not willing to ruin my family over it.
Just as some women choose to forgive an affair and stay. Its my choice to stay and forgive him for his bad decisions. He is not being selfish, he is being deluded...he keeps thinking he will get the right job and "get us out of the mess"...but I think its gone beyond that point. And the stress is too much for either of us.

So if I can convince him to declare bankrupt...then what? How do we move forward?

I suggest you say to your DH that you go to an independent, free debt advice service and then take the advice given to you. He's clearly unable to make good decisions with money and sadly, he's not been honest with you. That bit would really be a bit of a deal breaker for me. He married you without telling you he was 200k in debt? That's no small deceit.

If he refuses than you really do need to protect yourself and your dc, he's not going to protect you. I'm very nervous that there are more unpleasant surprises coming your way.

Listen to advice of experts. If he won't listen then please, you listen and act.

He married her when he was even more than 200k in debt, that it what he has reduced it to... Quite an astonishing betrayal. I'd have been out the door.

If you are willing to forgive that is up to you, but you need to be realistic that your future will involve debt, lies, & further poor financial decisions for the rest of your life.

Has he been honest with you about anything?
Are you sure it's "just" £200k debt?
How do you know if you don't even know what your outgoings are!?
I think going bankrupt is really your only choice now op.
It's not the end of the world...although it may feel like that at first.
I have zero respect for anyone - man or woman - who puts their pride before their families welfare.
:(

I've been in this position. This is what you both need to do based on what you have written so far.

Stand in front of the mirror and say "this week we will file for bankruptcy".

There is no stigma associated with this any more. You file some paperwork with the court, and from that moment, your problems go away. The court will take a look at both your incomes and, i suspect, probably conclude that you cannot reasonably afford to pay any of these debts back. They have a calculator that they use to calculate what you will be allowed to have to live on and it is actually quite generous. If i read correctly, you don't own your house.

But you have to steal yourself for some minor inconveniences around not having a bank account, etc.

In a year's time, you will be discharged and you can go back to normal - but steer away from credit which will be punishingly expensive.
In 6 years time, you'll be able to get credit with the best of them.

Why do i come to this conclusion? You mentioned owing £200,000. That means you need to be paying back £35,000 a year to be out of debt in 6 years. You clearly cannot do that, so why try.

Your husband is clearly a principled and honourable man. Exactly the kind of man who will end up with cancer or a heart attack because he cannot face not being able to meet his commitments.

Life is more important. Bite the bullet, file for bankruptcy and you'll look back and wish you did it years ago.