MIL meltdown - please make me be sensible

[minifingers]

Background: been with DH 20 years, married 15 years. MIL has always behaved in a 'correct' way with me, polite, kept her opinions to herself (mostly), but I have always felt a lack of genuine warmth and liking from her. Two days before we got married she told me she had a 'very bad feeling about this wedding', and she wasn't sure why. I never repeated it to DH, but I was devastated and it cast a cloud over the wedding for me. I have held it in my heart ever since. I have no idea why she felt she had to tell me that, other than to spoil my happiness and make me feel anxious.

Any way, roll on 15 years. DH and I have been fine, 3 children, a stable and happy marriage. The main difficulty in our life has been with our oldest, who is now nearly 15. We've had 2 years of absolute hell from her (violence, verbal aggression, school refusal), and earlier this year she went to stay with MIL as I had got to the point where I was on the verge of a breakdown with it. MIL lives just around the corner and we are back and forth from her house 3 or 4 times a week, as DH likes to visit a lot and helps her care for his dad, who is very disabled from a stroke. DD has been fine with MIL - compliant, helpful, polite, and very patient and good humoured with my FIL who is quite senile, incontinent, and who drives MIL mad. It's been good for dd being there and feeling useful and loved, and I'm very, very grateful to MIL.

To cut to the event which has upset me, yesterday dd was sick at school, and I picked her up half way through the day and bought her home. I had to be at work at 7.40 last night, and so drove dd over to MIL's on the way there. I was running late, so dropped her at the front door and started to drive off. As I did so I saw SIL walking down the road, and she flagged me down. I stopped and said hello, and we had a very brief discussion about why I was dropping dd back. I didn't get out the car.

I was just telling her I had to go as I was late for work when in my wing mirror I saw my elderly and not very fit MIL pelting down the road towards us in her dressing gown with a face like thunder, gesticulating angrily. It transpired she was furious that I hadn't come in and said hello when I'd dropped dd off. She told me she felt like I was treating her home as a travel lodge and that she was very angry with me. I just looked at her and said 'sorry, but I'm very late for work and couldn't stop', to which she answered 'well you could stop to talk to SIL'. SIL pointed out that she'd flagged me down and that I was just leaving. I said, 'I'm sorry that you feel like that, but I can't stop now', and drove off, shocked and shaken.

It sounds so trivial but I've been on the verge of tears all day today and feel like I don't want to see her again. All the feelings of not being liked that I've always had in her company, which I've pushed down for 2 decades, have come bubbling to the surface and I'm really distraught. Her fury was so out of proportion with my 'crime' - dropping dd off without coming in - I can only assume there's a whole heap of baggage there that is the real reason she's angry with me. I see her at least twice most weeks, DH talks to her every day and goes over at least 3 times a week. It's not like we've just dumped dd and left MIL to get on with raising her for us. Just to complicate things further, while dd is awful at school and sometimes with dh, I've been the main target of her teenage angst, and have been on the receiving end of some really horrible personal abuse from her. She tells me I'm the cause of all her problems and she behaves badly because of me. She can't explain why, but she's adamant it's all my fault. All of it. She has campaigned to try to get me to leave home so she can live with DH, and for me to just go away. I feel like a failure as a parent and suspect that my MIL compares me with my SIL's, whose teenage children are all polite, hard working, loving, well behaved. I feel judged and disliked.

I hate people being angry with me. Really, really hate it.

Is it crazy of me to be so upset about this? I'm beside myself about it. My current feeling is that a million wild horses couldn't drag me over to her house again. I hate confrontations and feel humiliated.

Twitterqueen - because they both have a huge problem with the same person....the daughter can't even explain why but she wants her mum to leave home? My thinking is that somebody has been dripping poison in her ear since she was tiny.

DH knows his mum is unhappy and not very well. Exhausted with caring for FIL.

I know she's unhappy and not well too. I feel sorry for her. I wish she didn't have to have dd but the only other option is for dd to go into care or for me to move out of the family home.

I understand why she was cross, but I'm mortified about her haranguing me in the way she did. I'd probably get over it much quicker if it hadn't bought to the surface long damped down feelings that she has never liked me anyway and wishes I'd not married her ds. I feel like stress and irritation has resulted in her losing control of herself and allowing her fundamental dislike and contempt for me to express itself.

"My thinking is that somebody has been dripping poison in her ear since she was tiny"

No - I don't think she'd do this. She has values and is a fundamentally decent person. She just doesn't like me or have much respect for me is all.

I was also wondering what part DH is playing in all this as well.

"She has values and is a fundamentally decent person. She just doesn't like me or have much respect for me is all"
Those two sentences actually contradict each other.

Your DD has not always been this way.

When did the relationship really start to go wrong between your DD and yourself?. Was there one particular thing that set it off; she falling into a bad crowd for instance?.

OP, you're still focusing on how bad she's made you feel and how you don't deserve it, but at the same time trying to rationalise and explain what she's done.

Accept that MIL is and always has been a poisonous cow but also accept that she is helping your DD.

Accept that she has never liked you and never will, and that you won't change her. It's a waste of your energy attempt it.

You're focusing on the wrong thing here. Your #1 priority should be your daughter. What is MIL doing that is helping your daughter? Have you asked your DD why she likes staying at MIL but not with you? Try telling your DD that she's stuck with you forever regardless and that nothing she does or says will change that.

Maybe mil is just having a bad day? Why do people jump to ridiculous suggestions - dripping poison FFS? In real life people are mostly on a spectrum of normal. So probably, mil is tired, fed up, found dd in her home and was suddenly pissed off to see you chatting with sil. That's all.
Does she fund dd? Could there be a really simple issue like not having had enough food?

Maybe mil is just having a bad day? Why do people jump to ridiculous suggestions - dripping poison FFS? In real life people are mostly on a spectrum of normal. So probably, mil is tired, fed up, found dd in her home and was suddenly pissed off to see you chatting with sil. That's all.
Does she fund dd? Could there be a really simple issue like not having had enough food?

"I was also wondering what part DH is playing in all this as well."

He is trying to keep everyone happy. He worries about his dm - she isn't well and finds fil hard work.

"She has values and is a fundamentally decent person. She just doesn't like me or have much respect for me is all"
Those two sentences actually contradict each other.

Not really. She's a good person. She just doesn't like me. I don't think she chooses to dislike me, she just does. Sometimes it just is that way.

"Your DD has not always been this way.

When did the relationship really start to go wrong between your DD and yourself?. Was there one particular thing that set it off; she falling into a bad crowd for instance?."

It all happened when she went do secondary school and decided not to do any work, at all. And to argue with her teachers all the time. And argue with me and dh every time we asked her to do homework, get up and get to school on time, etc. She became very, very defiant, apathetic and oppositional, and things spiralled down from there. She's still really, really apathetic, very low self-esteem. Not aware of anything that caused this, though we have done everything to try to get to the route of the huge change that happened in her during adolescence. One thing - she went from being a tiny pretty little girl to a very overweight teenager with bad acne over the space of about 18 months. I don't know if the weight gain is a symptom of the low self esteem or the cause of it but I suspect it's both. She's very overweight now.

"Maybe mil is just having a bad day? "

Yes, probably. If I didn't feel like this was an expression of a long held dislike of me I'd probably be able to brush it off, but I really do feel like it's an eruption of hatred towards me, and the roots go a long way down.

"Does she fund dd? Could there be a really simple issue like not having had enough food?"

Plenty of food at dmil's house. No money worries.

I think the sooner your DD moves back home the better, i think this is what your MIL is trying to tell you. I think caring for her disabled husband and the stress of your DD is just to much for her. I know you say your DD is well behaved for her but the conflict between the two of you will effect everyone even if its only indirectly.

I honestly think you need to go round there with flowers/chocs whatever and apologise, sorry i know this isnt what you want to hear, but i think she is feeling unappreciated and you need to suck it up and make up for it.

I just don't know if I can rise above feeling angry, humiliated, disliked and blamed.

I agree that dd must come home.

If I can't make it work with dd at home I will have to go.

Mini that question about funding her wasn't meant unkindly. If my mum had to look after dd she would find it tough going after a while that's all.
Is there any chance you and she just haven't warmed to each other /aren't that close and so the comment over the years has taken on extra significance?
I just don't believe that people are so easily categorised as vile or poisonous or out to get you as mumsnet sometimes likes to think.

Chucking out general ideas here so think on or ignore as necessary:-

I think her transition to secondary school has an awful lot to do with the ways she is now. Does she socialise with her peers, has she got actual friends at school?. Has she been bullied there?. She is acting out for reasons currently known only to her; it could well be a cry for help/attention. She may well be thinking that any attention albeit negative is better than none.

I do hope you get to the root causes but she needs to co-operate and now return to the family home. I do not think that you as her mother is actually the direct cause. She's just taking it all out on you because you're her mother, you're safe and you're there.

I do not think your MIL is actually all that fab if she has never really liked you. I think she would have been the same regardless of whom your DH married, some women cannot bear to think their darling boy in their eyes chose someone else to be with. She may well think that you are not good enough for him.

Does MIL currently have any degree of legal responsibility over your DD at all or was this arrangement an informal and open ended one?.

Do you think family therapy was not helpful last time because you actually saw the wrong therapist?.

Was wondering too if you had ever spoken to Parentline as they could be useful here to you as well.

"If I can't make it work with dd at home I will have to go".

No, bad idea all round. Its also not your sole responsibility; what about your DDs sense of responsibility here. Its strikes me that your DD for whatever reasons is deeply unhappy in her own self and with her own self. Lashing out at primarily the mother is common in these situations.

ALL of you have to find some way to make this family unit functional again and that process may well be a both protracted and painful one to undergo. There has been right and wrong on all sides here and everyone needs to start actually listening to each other in both a safe and controlled environment.

I don't think you should go anywhere. Why the hell should you? What about your other kids?

Your DD does not work and pay the bills etc. Make her come home and you and your DH work as a team. If she is disrespectful then she gets the basics to live in your household.

Treats and extras come with respect.

I would also show her you and DH are a united team not that he partially condones her treatment of you by being the go between.

"I would also show her you and DH are a united team not that he partially condones her treatment of you by being the go between".

Seconded.

For the sake of your daughter youre going to have to rise above it, as harsh as that may sound. You both have lots of common ground, you both obviously care a great deal for your DD, Does your MIL ever get a break from caring for your FIL? sound like she may really need one, could you possibly re pay her kindness by taking you FIL out for the day....or even a weekend?

mini - I feel for you. I really don't like confrontation either and take it very personally

However, it does seem to me that MIL had just had a hard day and was venting. However, I get a really sick feeling when people I would not expect to get angry with me do - it sort of skews your perception of reality

Can DH smooth this over? Say you mentioned it to him and are sorry. I do second maybe taking FIL out for the day as it sounds like it would be good for MIL to have a break

Finally, I don't want to cause panic, but so you think that MIK could be going slightly senile? Personality changes/losing boundries can be a sign

"For the sake of your daughter youre going to have to rise above it, as harsh as that may sound."

I know.

I just don't know how at the moment. I feel like running away.

"If she is disrespectful then she gets the basics to live in your household.

Treats and extras come with respect."

So, so weary of withholding and punishing. We have been there and done that and it made no difference to dd's behaviour at all.

Bless you, have a glass of something nice tonight and deal with it over the weekend, this situation is shite, it can only get better!.

OP you're jumping to a lot of conclusions and talking about splitting your family up without finding out if you're assumptions are correct.

What we do know is this:

• your MIL made an unfortunate comment years ago but you've no idea really if she likes or dislikes you. It sounds like a bit of a 2-way thing.

• she is doing something HUGE for you when she's exhausted, and you are minimising that.

• you were rude

• she massively over-reacted but you don't really know why

• you are now over-reacting

This can only be sorted by an honest and gentle conversation between the two of you. It's not for your DH to manage. Your an adult and should be capable of speaking to her directly, and be prepared to accept that you may be partly at fault.

Your not you're, obvs [grrr]

Don't see it as with holding and punishing. She gets a bed, food, clothing etc.

Anything else comes as a reward for being a decent person.

How are you going to work things with your other children? They don't deserve to live with one parent or the other and have a reduced way of life because of one sibling.

Gertrude, I'm not minimising what MIL is doing for us.

Can I add though that the support and help is not all running one way: at least twice, but sometimes three times a week DH goes around after a 10 hour day at work to change his dad and put him to bed. He takes his mum shopping, will drop everything to go around if she needs him.

It is also a conviction of mine that we DO know when someone dislikes us. I find most people very transparent, even those who are trying hard to hide their emotions. My MIL doesn't like me and never has, I'm convinced of this. If I didn't think this I might not have had such a strong reaction to the way she spoke to me yesterday.

I'd say that you MIL is probably under a great deal of stress
It is rude to drop your daughter at her house without going in. I wonder if you examine it how many times you have actually done that? Make time to be polite.

You should eat some humble pie and apologise to her for not going in and explain that you were in a hurry
I would look at this behaviour from your MIL and wonder why it happened
Then perhaps see how you could help her out or see if there are any problems she has that you could help out with.

I'm sorry to hear that you have had a hard time with your d.
Perhaps you could try to focus on how kind your MIL has been in having your D... rather than have her enter the care system. I wonder if you have even considered what would have happened without the support of your MIL?

I know you have come to frame this huge favour she is doing for you as what a big favour it has been for her. Does that make it easier for you?
I think that you are missing the point somewhat.

She is the constant carer for her now disabled husband. She herself is probably exhausted, frightened and completely miserable. She was kind enough to look after your D when you had lost all control of her. She did this when she herself was probably in the need of care and support.

She may have reaped some benefits by having your d there but there will be other negatives and burdens that you neglect to discuss.

I'm sorry to hear that your now very kind and supportive MIL made a comment 15 yrs ago that you didn't agree with or like...perhaps she did have a bad feeling about the wedding. She is entitled to feelings also. It is only her opinion though. She did not put a cloud over your wedding, your interpretation over one person's comment did that.
Why are you still ruminating about that after all these years and given all her help and support?

Someone is unhappy with you. Perhaps you are at fault.
If so, apologise. If not, move on.