Oh ffs!

[Imsuchamess]

I went on a night out tonight. My very close female friend was out a guy I knew In high school and my friends partner (and Dhs friend).

I had to turn the guy I knew in highschool down 11 times when he began to be aggressive about it and tried manipulating me into sex. As my female friend who had very high heels on feet were killing I grabbed her partner to dance In order to get away from aggressive guy.

Well next thing I know my female friends partner is touching me inappropriately. So I go and sit down with my friend and aggressive guy. It's nearly the end of the night so I put up with aggressive guy. While making frequent trips to the loo to reduce contact.

My female friends partner whispers in my ear to Facebook message him in the morning. As we are getting a taxi female friend jumps in the front aggressive guy jumps in one side and as I have to get out first and being afraid to sit in the middle I suggest females friends partner jump In the middle aggressive guy starts complaining so female friends partner shoves me in the middle.

So I spend the taxi ride home with both men feeling a leg each. Most men are bastards!

So now I am sat here crying, I keep thing about all the things I could of done different to avoid this like being more forceful. I'm devastated because I now have to tell my friend.

She just text me asking if me and dh will go over tomorrow night to see her and her partner

Why are some men such utter ares wipes?

I have been put in a difficult position now as my friend is quite likely to believe her partner over me. My heart is breaking for her.

You keep repeating the same thing without answering any direct questions beatingwings.

Sorry duplicate post.

"You could have been completely naked with a big "come fuck me" sign on your head and it still wouldn't have been your fault! "

I agree it still would not be a woman's fault. But would you be happy at your daughter going out naked with such a sign?

OP, it might be worth speaking to the police about aggressive guy. They may have a little word in his shell like about his sexually aggressive behaviour. I'd definitely tell your friend about who she's in a relationship too, so she has the chance to do something about it. It's not your fault, the only people at fault here are the idiots who think they have the right to paw at you without your consent.

Sorry this happened OP.

None of it is your fault. It is easy to look back and wish to have done things differently. But in the moment we don't always have the confidence and clarity to act quickly. The problem here is the men who sleazed on you. Not how you responded.

I would tell your friend. It is impossible to know how she will react but you need to be able to avoid her partner. Take support from people who care for you and who you trust.

beatingwings

You are repeatedly not answering direct questions in your quest to blame this woman for the actions of 2 men who assaulted her.

Are you going to tell your daughter to never have a relationship of any kind with a man, because she is far more likely to be raped by her partner than by some random in a pub? If your daughter is a child, are you going to keep yourself, your family and your friends away from her, because she is at more risk from them than a stranger?

The only reason women are raped is because they have the misfortune to be in the vicinity of a rapist. No matter what they are wearing, doing, saying, have done, have said, how many partners they have had or haven't had, whether they get into a taxi or walk about Bangkok in the middle of the night wearing nothing but baby oil and a fucking smile.

Victim blaming is ugly.

I am not blaming the OP.

Yes, you are.

You have done it repeatedly.

You still haven't answered the question either.

I have to say that some of the attitudes on this thread are exactly why I never spoke up about being raped when I was 15.

The trouble is people are scared the same thing will happen to them. So they try to find excuses steps they take that mean it won't happen to them.

I have gone to town wearing some pretty skimpy outfits before and not been assaulted. Last night I was dressed rather conservatively and I was assaulted.

I have gone out without my dh many times and have never been assaulted.

The female friend last night is actually my only female friend. I usually get on better with men. So I often go out as the only girl in a group of guys and horror I have dressed skimpily. Not one of them felt a entitlement to touch me.

I couldn't leave the safety of the pub as then I would have been alone in a rough neighbourhood full of drunks in the middle of the night. I deemed staying in the pub a lesser risk.

I couldn't not get in the taxi as again I would have had to walk ten minutes alone to the taxi rank in a rough area full of drunks in the middle of the night.

All these if you don't take risks it won't happen is absolute bollocks.

Tell me what precaution I should have taken?

Yy OP, ignore the people with the magical "good girls don't get raped" thinking.

Some fucking outrageous responses on this thread.

No aspect of the OP' s behaviour could have stopped these two rapey, entitled fuckwits being rapey, entitled fuckwits. I agree with Basil.

I also think that placing the onus on women to take responsibility for not getting raped is not at all about living in the real world, where most women are raped.and sexually assaulted by people who know her and believe her consent to be unimportant; that if she wasn't up for sex, she wouldn't be out in a public space where alcohol is being consumed; that she must be up for it if she's dressed nicely; and that her politeness is solicitous and indicates that she's not really committed to her own sexual.agency if she doesn't take actions that perform her not "taking risk".

People who put conditions on women's safety which make the woman responsible for acting, dressing and appearing in certain ways or places are part of the problem. The whole, Don't go out shite, the whole, it's inevitable trope is exactly what lets men off, what makes them think, "she knows the rules - if she's drinking, if she's here, if she's dressed like that ..."

Anyone suggesting that the OP' s own behaviour should have been modified is tacitly blaming her for what happened. Vile.

Rather sweeping. Not all men think like this
ok. find me one that doesn't. where's your evidence?

OP I really sympathise with you.

A friend's husband recently tried to kiss me. Actually, he DID kiss me. I don't know why I didn't scream and slap the bastard. (Well, my children and his were in the next room, but I could have shouted/told him how disgusting he was). I didn't. I felt embarassed and ashamed. And a bit apologetic . I told my ex husband and current boyfriend. The ex-husband was because we are still really good friends and this man that did this was a friend of the marriage (hahahaha ).

My XH told me last week that he texted the man telling him if he so much as looks at me again there will be dire consequences. I didn't know he had done this, but I had wondered why he hadn't showed up at church for the last couple of months. I was actually really grateful. I am a professional woman and quite confident in most things in every day life. No idea why a man making inappropriate advances turned me into a mute who couldn't defend herself. I honestly felt apologetic and like it was my fault

One of the best pieces of advice I ever received and sadly it was quite late into my twenties when I had already been harassed many times was that I didn't have to be polite, it was fine to be rude or leave if someone was harassing you (if that's possible). It is often very difficult though in a social situation, it's not always as clear cut as just shout loudly 'fuck off' especially when the person is aggressive and drunk and you don't want to antagonize them. I have let someone feel me up on a crowded train without saying anything as I wasn't quite sure if they were doing it deliberately or not, I thought yes but didn't want to draw attention to myself. The new older me has shouted 'don't you dare touch me' in a similar situation, but as someone else said, that's not the default setting and you are not always prepared for or able to carry out such action- you may even be in more danger or attract more undesirable attention if you do.

I think as women we often end up being quite polite and not wanting to make a fuss and not sure of what to do and can very easily end up in these situations. It's even worse if you are with someone aggressive, you must have been terrified you were going to set him off to even worse behaviour. I have been in exactly that situation and it's difficult to know what to do for the best. I also think being with your friend meant you didn't want to leave her to stand alone in a dodgy area with drunk people around you- you didn't have great choices by this stage.

I'm so sorry your night turned out like this, no means no and once you said to the guy, no there's no chance of me and you that should have been the end of it.

OP.....ignore the idiots. Beatingwings is stupid. I am so sorry those two rubbish, evil little men hurt you. THEY are to blame, not you, lovely.

I posted this morning about how disappointed I was at some of the responses on here and I am appalled at how this thread has gone!

OP, you do not need to explain or justify yourself. Some people will always look at the way people are dressed or who they were out with or were they drinking and make up their small minds that way. I am disgusted.

You cannot guard yourself against nasty, entitled men who believe it is their right to touch a woman. Definitely, not all men are like that but in this case the 2 men are and they are at fault.

I would ignore those small minded comments, unbelievable!!

Ok, find me one that doesn't, Where's your evidence.

You want evidence that not all men think that a woman who has ever had sex is then 'available' to all men and would have sex with any other man?

I am 100% sure that my DH doesn't think like that! He has never shown any sign at all ever, that he thinks like that. He says he doesn't know anyone else who thinks like that, or behaves like that, either.

OP, you could have been wearing a bikini and it still wouldn't have been your fault. These were two unpleasant entitled arseholes and are 100% to blame. I hope your friend is understanding when you have a word with her.

beatingwings you are perpetuating the same old victim blaming / perpetrator excusing shit that makes changing perceptions of rape so hard.

I am not property. My genitals are not some valuables to be locked out of sight in case they tempt someone to commit a crime. There is only one person at fault when a rape is committed: the rapist. No exceptions. No excuses.

My goodness, some of the opinions on this thread are positively medieval! Why don't we all just start wearing burkhas & chastity belts! Let's not tempt those 'nasty' men, poor things, they just can't help those evil 'urges'. I'm disappointed, I thought we'd come further than this. As a woman, I have 'urges', too. Sometimes very strong ones. Yet I don't run around groping men in skinny jeans & tight t-shirts that show their 'man parts', bullying them for sex. I certainly don't think those men are 'asking for it'. And, despite some of the attitudes shown here, I have no more or no less ability to control my urges than a man has. If I can do it, I should be able to expect no less from a man.

And as far as men go, there are plenty of men who understand what is and is not appropriate behaviour. And that no means NO.

100% what Acrossthepond said. Good Luck With Your foolproof steps, beatingwings, I'm glad you've got the Magic answer. As a general rule to be sensible, yes. But then if something crap happens to pipe up With something along the lines of "ah, but you were not sensible enough" is shameful. Shame on you and the men (and women) who think they have the right to someone elses body simply because they want to, and then get cross when the person has their own mind and dare to say no.

I'm fuming on your behalf, op. I'm glad you have a supportive partner at home.

Thanks for all the support I'm very grateful.

Some of the replies on this thread are really upsetting. I've been in similar situations to the op in the past. Some times I got myself into the bad situations by making stupid decisions. Some situations I could have handled better if I'd had more confidence. Some situations I don't think I could have changed unless I isolated myself from the outside world and never left the house.

You can minimise risk and you can look back and see with the clarity of hindsight how you could have dealt with things better, but ultimately the blame lies with the person who thinks they have a right to your body that they simply do not have.